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Attempting 5 Certifications in 1 year

asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Hi Everyone,
Am planning to give SCJP, SCWCD, SCDJWS, SCBCD, SCEA in the span of a year.
Do you think its possible. I dont really know, all i know is that I am really keen on it. I have been in the industry for ard 13 months now and worked in java/j2EE. so what do you say.. and one more q comes to my mind.. will they be valued without a backing work ex of like 7-8 years. And after a year i want to do my mba and take a career in financial enterprise architectures. Any ideas any one...

thanks for reading


LIVIN LA VENI VIDA VENCI LOCA
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi eminem !

Am planning to give SCJP, SCWCD, SCDJWS, SCBCD, SCEA in the span of a year. Do you think its possible.

It is possible, but not reasonable at all with only 1 year of experience.
I would recommend such order : SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS with at least 6 mounths between each, so as to be able to assimilate somewhat with time, else you will mix all and will understand little. This will lead you to 3 years of business practice altogether, which is perfectly sensible since recruiters won't consider at all your certs if they are not backed up by real paid experience. Certs alone won't give you any job.

Please note I added SCJD to the list, excellent and useful certification.

You could perhaps even consider too SCMAD (J2ME), certainly a thing to be soon in great demand.

Best regards.


Eric LEMAITRE
CNAM IT Engineer, MS/CS (RHCE, RHCX, SCJA, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, Net+)
Free Online Tutorials: http://www.free-tutorials-online.net/
doug parker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 30
eminem, welcome to the forum! let me be the first to tell you that your name is not in compliance with the site policy.

It must be changed.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
"eminem",

Welcome to JavaRanch.

IPlook carefully at official naming policy at Javaranch & reregister yourself with proper first & last name, with a space between them. Please adhere to official naming policy & help maintain the decorum of the forum. The naming policy can be found at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp

--Mark
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
do u intend to achieve them while working?


BEA 8.1 Certified Administrator, IBM Certified Solution Developer For XML 1.1 and Related Technologies, SCJP, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCDJWS, SCJD, SCEA,
Oracle Certified Master Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect
Vijay Vaddem
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 243
I feel gaining a certificate is mastering the subject.....
Not as a mean to get a job or a hike..............

I think its too early to go for so many certifications with
1 year of experience....
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
do u intend to achieve them while working?


ya i do. but my current job as a software engineer isnt very demanding on my time so i thought. i agree with the otherss that the best way is to give them with six months between them. but i wanna get an over view of the java domain and be able to present my case next year when i go for my mba. so that after that , i can say i have done my mba in finance and have a good understanding of the domain and am ready to be part of teams delivering enterprise architectures for the financial services sector. so i thought of this line. i dont know. have my scjp on feb 27th. will definitely give scjd also now that you guys have reco it.
thanks and i will change my name ASAP
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
You seem to think that having a certificate can compensate for lack of realworld experience and give you a huge salary.
Let me be the first to tell you that's not the case.

Personally I'd look with extreme scepticism to any candidate with only one or two years experience yet a lot of certificates.
Tells me that person has a very broad but extremely shallow knowledgebase and all of it highly theoretical making him likely unsuitable for work in a realworld environment where pragmatism is usually more appropriate towards solving a problem than theoretical correctness.

This doesn't mean those certificates are useless, far from it. But having certificates without having the practical experience gained from using that knowledge extensively in real projects makes that knowledge potentially dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced person.


42
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Jeroen !

You seem to think that having a certificate can compensate for lack of realworld experience and give you a huge salary. Let me be the first to tell you that's not the case.

You are totally right stating this in general, but I think you are wrong on this point in his case for this guy states "i wanna get an over view of the java domain", which is one of advantages of certification process. At least it will allow him to sweep across most Java aspects to be aware of, and he his realistic enough to take 6 mounths between each cert so as to assimilate. So at the end he may not have the real practice of these but he will have a good idea of what they are, so it is a good approach too (for real practice doesn't rely on him but rather on his job).

Best regards.
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164
Think that "overcertify" attitude stems from a well understandable insecurity. You invest time to learn. You want a paper to verify that you did learn and you did not watch birds.
I learnt that, too - those certifications have big holes. Stuff you can only gain from praxis. More low level stuff, like how to use logging properly, using multithreading from swing or thousands more or more complex like apply design patterns in a way that makes sense. Evaluate customer demands. Or this one: To start with business logic is no joke, but a really good idea (thing I did wrong for such a long time). RDBMS knowledge. Profiling.
So without job or lack of interesting_enough_job, it might be good idea to start interesting projekt for oneself. The praxis questions will creep up anyway.
As Eric said, there exists a too much certifications trap. Sometimes its a good idea to read/work through good eclipse-plugin dev book, hibernate in action or Design Pattern book without thinking about certification.

On the other hand I've seen people with excelent java skills, good OO-knowledge, good rdbms knowledge without any certifications doing weird stuff in J2EE-Webtier project. Things they would'nt done with having SCWCD or the IBM certis.

Axel
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
You seem to think that having a certificate can compensate for lack of realworld experience and give you a huge salary.
Let me be the first to tell you that's not the case.

Personally I'd look with extreme scepticism to any candidate with only one or two years experience yet a lot of certificates.
Tells me that person has a very broad but extremely shallow knowledgebase and all of it highly theoretical making him likely unsuitable for work in a realworld environment where pragmatism is usually more appropriate towards solving a problem than theoretical correctness.

This doesn't mean those certificates are useless, far from it. But having certificates without having the practical experience gained from using that knowledge extensively in real projects makes that knowledge potentially dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced person.


Hi Jeroen,
I completely agree with what u said. I would also look at a guy with one or two yrs ex and 5 certifications as a guy with a very theoretical approach and not pragmatic as would be with 5-6 years ex. My desire for these 5 in a year is twofold : one to learn about the expanse of java as this is the industry where ten years down the road i wanna be recognised as a competency globally for delivering enterprise level architectures across the globe for some of the best firsm in the world.its not that fame and money that lures me, its the challenge of being among the best in this industry and gettng a shot at designing some of the most complicated architectures, and ya a little money alonside wont hurt. And i figured this was the best way to get a bird's overview of many diverse and often neglected topics.
Second reason was to make a statement : it may stem from an insecurity i am not aware of, for all such reasons do. A statement not to declare i know it all. But a statement of my hunger and desire to be out there working for and with the best asap.
am just a year old in the industry, and love it more and more as i get older in it. i have a lot of respect for the intricacies of the java domain and expanse to know that it cant be completed in a year.may be ten.. but thats too maybe. and none of my posts this or the previous were callous towards the industry, its just what i wanna be and in how much time.
feasible or not.. time can answer that best.
take care and thanks for reading.
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
I agree with Jeroen Wenting therefor I will know obtain a certificate that in a technology or field that is relevant, required to the work I am doing from now on.
Anyway Do u guys think SCDJWS or IBM XML Certification is more useful and valuable?
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
XML is an overblown buzzword.
It's a tool, nothing more. I've seen too many people and companies using it as some kind of magic word, as if the simple fact of using XML in an application somehow makes that application better than others in the field.

Therefore I consider any XML certification most likely to be a big bag of wind, useless in any practical sense except if you want to add YAA (yet another acronym) to the list in your resume.
Marc Peabody
pie sneak
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Posts: 4727

It is worth noting that IBM is giving out free vouchers (you have to pass a $10 online exam to get one) for the XML 141 test.
http://www-03.ibm.com/certify/news/20041220g.shtml

I'm thinking about doing this and then using it as a stepping stool for the web services exam, since the exam is about 1/2 XML anyway (I took and failed the web services beta).


A good workman is known by his tools.
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164
a question for me, too.
I own 2 IBM voucher, valid until 30. of june. Might take a 3rd:
- WAS admin (340): I have some little experience and have allready read stuff. It makes sense to get some knowledge of some important server issues, cause customer tells me that I'll be in Was portal project.
- WAS Portal dev: like 340 and it seems not so difficult
- WAS Webservices: Don't have voucher, but 3 are allowed and a collegue and me are looking for answers of prep test.

Alternative to invest less time on certis is to dive into
derby/hsqldb + dafodil replicator + eclipse Rich Client Platform + some Java security + webservices or this burlap stuff I don't know + j2ee on server as the ultimative open source bundle which will blow some well known bloated lotus domino database nobody likes except 2 or 3 admins from the servers of my customers. Last option might look more "risky". I have no budget for it. Will have to do it @home and present, when I have some presentable result.
I think I go for option 2.
Nevertheless if you have some time and no more_or_less concrete ideas certis are in my view not the worst option.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
I just looked at Prometric and you can even do a Certificate in Anesthesia if you like.
[ February 01, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

Le Cafe Mouse - Helen's musings on the web - Java Skills and Thrills
"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
so any IT certifications and tertiary qualifications even postgraduate ones are all pretty useless without like at least 2 to 3 years of professional experience.
Should have started working in IT since high school
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
certificates are an indication of knowing the theory, but out here in the real world things aren't always as they seem and the theory can quickly turn against you.

Having some certificate isn't bad, but having a shipload of them with no experience to ballance them is.
So take it slow, start working on maybe one a year at most.
Subhash Bhushan C
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 106
I am on the same path as asit, albeit with a little difference. I plan to sweep through Java before joining for my MBA next year mid. I still have about 1.5 years to complete the other certifications if I want to. But I have a question. I am "interested" in Enterprise JavaBeans and J2ME, but I absolutely dont like JSP and servlets. Its just me, they seem boring to me. But do I have to pass all the 3 exams (SCBCD, SCWCD, SCDJWS) to qualify as a "J2EE" professional? Or is it like we choose what we like best among the 3 and finish off with J2EE?

And for the record, I plan to do my MBA along with my job. I do not want to quit my job because as people have said earlier, I believe that no amount of certifications will help you, if you do not have sufficient real world experience.. You just dont grow as a professional. Though I do not mean that certifications are a complete waste.


Regards,<br />Subhash Bhushan.
vasu maj
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 395
So you want to do all these certification in a year and then after doing all this and a year want to do you MBA and do your financial architecture thing.

What's the point boss? I didn't get it.



Vasu


What a wonderful world!
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by vasu maj:
So you want to do all these certification in a year and then after doing all this and a year want to do you MBA and do your financial architecture thing.

What's the point boss? I didn't get it.



Vasu


which part..?
i want to get to the wall street firms and be a star software architect and what do i want to architect .. therein lies your mba in finance. being in india and getting to wall street for the same line.. suggest another way.. !not mba or ms from abroad..
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by asit sheth:


which part..?
i want to get to the wall street firms and be a star software architect and what do i want to architect .. therein lies your mba in finance. being in india and getting to wall street for the same line.. suggest another way.. !not mba or ms from abroad..


yes, an easier way is just to think up a lot of fake degrees from nonexistent universities (you can buy those on the internet) and use that to get ah H1-B...
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:


yes, an easier way is just to think up a lot of fake degrees from nonexistent universities (you can buy those on the internet) and use that to get ah H1-B...



peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by asit sheth:

which part..?
i want to get to the wall street firms and be a star software architect and what do i want to architect .. therein lies your mba in finance. being in india and getting to wall street for the same line.. suggest another way.. !not mba or ms from abroad..


The big money on wall street isn't in the software architecture area. You will still be treated like a glorified clerk. If you want to make the big time, forget IT, do the MBA and get into financial product sales.
 
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