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confluence of iim and java/j2EE architect ???

asit sheth
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Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
doest it exist ? its the question thats been bothering me for quite some time now. am a software engineer working with a mnc for a year nw after my B.Tech. am in the java/j2EE domain. seven years down the line i want to be a independent technical enterprise architect or in a renowned IT CONSULTANCY as a chief technical architect making a rep for myself so that i can go solo in the next couple of years. for this i was thinking to do an mba next year pref an iim in finance so that i can become a domain expert in financial services and deliver enterprise wide solutions to F500 Cos.
Have thought about this for a year now..no breakthrough. till i realised its impossible for me to figure this out, only guys who are in such roles where i wanna be or know such guys can tell me what it takes to get there...
would really appreciate your inputs---A novice


LIVIN LA VENI VIDA VENCI LOCA
Varun Khanna
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Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by asit sheth:
doest it exist ? its the question thats been bothering me for quite some time now. am a software engineer working with a mnc for a year nw after my B.Tech. am in the java/j2EE domain. seven years down the line i want to be a independent technical enterprise architect or in a renowned IT CONSULTANCY as a chief technical architect making a rep for myself so that i can go solo in the next couple of years. for this i was thinking to do an mba next year pref an iim in finance so that i can become a domain expert in financial services and deliver enterprise wide solutions to F500 Cos.
Have thought about this for a year now..no breakthrough. till i realised its impossible for me to figure this out, only guys who are in such roles where i wanna be or know such guys can tell me what it takes to get there...
would really appreciate your inputs---A novice


Well in the other thread, I wasn't sure about your geographic location. But if IIM's is what you are targetting for .. hmm .. I doubt your certifications are going to be of any help in getting into IIM A/B/C/L.
Moreover since you are planing to enter B-School with 2 years of work-ex, I doubt after MBA course completion you would directly be getting an Architect's or even a Project Management's post. It will require atleast 2-4 yrs of another "developer's" experience to get to the Architect's post (under normal circumstances) and I am not sure how would you be projecting your Financial degree after that much of time Gap.

It would be better to go for institutes such as ISBs etc. after gaining 4-5 yrs of experience in IT. That will make more sense as you would be able to use your work experience in curriculam (couse) and hence the knowledge of course in getting the job you aiming for.

But that's just another opinion. If you wanna go for IIMs then go for it. You wont be loosing anything.
Barring A .... {a big gap}..... B & C rest all are just another crap
But the brand name does works

check out the forum http://www.pagalguy.com/cat , you can get a good, first hand advise from there


- Varun
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
i doubt it...have tried all such places. these guys are so much into cat that they dont think of anything else. what i have gathered is after iim no one wants to go into becoming a technical architect. all people move towards project management and business development. i wanna stay in this line only and coupled with an mba in finance i want to become a domain expert in providing enterprise solutions and distributed architectures for financial biggies like GoldMan Sachs, MOrgan Stanley and others. your suggestion of ISB sounds good. and i guess 4-5 years will help me in picking up a good knowledge base in my lne and then like an icing on the cake i can add financial knowledge. but are the placements from isb worth it... 4-5 years from now if i do an mba i would want like 40-50 lpa when i grad. do u think its feasible...
thanks for reading and replying...
ya my location is india.delhi
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Grduating from Indian Institutes of Management(especially Ahemedabad,Bangalore)is definitely an excellent option.Regardless of market,IIM grads never found any problems of finding a job even during Permit Raj.IIM Bangalore,you must be knowing offers MBA in Systems or Information Systems,I am not sure.This could be a good option which will combine management and technical skills.IMO,I have never seen MBA from these institutes doing technial work even if they are interested in.But situation might change in future.


MH
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
thanks a lot for your feedback. . but i guess spending 4-5 years in this industry can really help me in developing a good base of coding first and later designing architectures and become quite proficient. 2 years is impossible to claim proficiency in distributed architectures like what an SCEA would do. an iim after 2-3 years would put me in a intermediate stage. but maybe an isb after 4-5 years can position me as an expert in architecturing solutions. what do you say...I mean, not to sound over confident, but working real hard for four years can get me quite a lot of rela world experience, seeing good architectures can help me form an independent opinion of the same. and then i can add financial knowledge as my domain knowledge and make a big jump in terms of salary and work profile. hey any idea if Mckinsey and others hire IT Specialists from ISB.. I want to get into a consultancy profile..and move out of application services provider industry.
thanks for reading...
Varun Khanna
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
IMO,I have never seen MBA from these institutes doing technial work even if they are interested in.But situation might change in future.


Untrue.
My *many friends frm IIMs, are doing the same what I am doing. and some are even writing HTML pages. With one yr of experience if you get into IIM, do you think companies are going to recruit you as managers? either you would be assisting BD team in making proposals making excel file or in techie field you would be writing jsps

But in long term, yeah it's going to help you if you looking for VP or any equivalent position in an organization.
Many company infact requires MBA degree as an eligibilty.

But I do agree, an IIM tag alone is going to reward you more than what you learn there, take my words on that
Varun Khanna
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by asit sheth:
4-5 years from now if i do an mba i would want like 40-50 lpa when i grad. do u think its feasible...


You want Rupees 40-50 lakhs per annum salary after 4-5 years.
Is that what you meant?
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by K Varun:

Untrue.

That means the people I saw were not your friends.


With one yr of experience if you get into IIM, do you think companies are going to recruit you as managers?

Yes.We are not talking about only IT Companies.Hindustan Lever used to hire(or now also)24-25 year old IIM grads as managers.I don't know the exact role but they used to hire.Same is true for finance companies.My friend's cousin,IIM C grad with Btech in Mech,was getting Rs 80000 per month in Mumbai as manager(don't know the precise designation).This was in Feb.1998!! and he was 25 at that time.
Varun Khanna
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Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:

Yes.We are not talking about only IT Companies.


Consulting business is full of money That's a different story all together.
I was talking about only IT companies as that's where the original poster is looking for his career.
[ February 03, 2005: Message edited by: K Varun ]
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by K Varun:


Untrue.
My *many friends frm IIMs, are doing the same what I am doing. and some are even writing HTML pages. With one yr of experience if you get into IIM, do you think companies are going to recruit you as managers? either you would be assisting BD team in making proposals making excel file or in techie field you would be writing jsps

But in long term, yeah it's going to help you if you looking for VP or any equivalent position in an organization.
Many company infact requires MBA degree as an eligibilty.

But I do agree, an IIM tag alone is going to reward you more than what you learn there, take my words on that



If you are going to stick around in India IIM will have good tag value.

If you move to any other country and want to add MBA to your technical know-how and work in IT on the management side, it does not matter if you are from IIM or from ISB or NYU-part time or SMU-evening MBA. It all gives me the same impression.


Kishore
SCJP, blog
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by K Varun:


You want Rupees 40-50 lakhs per annum salary after 4-5 years.
Is that what you meant?


Naive but ya i do.. was thinking may be some way i can poise my skills towards a big consultancy firm and get that sort of salary..
Awaiting your grilling reply..
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by K Varun:


Consulting business is full of money That's a different story all together.
I was talking about only IT companies as that's where the original poster is looking for his career.

[ February 03, 2005: Message edited by: K Varun ]


hi..! i AM looking for a consultancy career.. in providing enterprise solutions as a technical architect. Like McKinsey BTO or something of that stature eventually.
I am sorry for the confusion
soniya saxena
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Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
what kind of skills do u think will fetch u that kind of money.

Originally posted by asit sheth:


Naive but ya i do.. was thinking may be some way i can poise my skills towards a big consultancy firm and get that sort of salary..
Awaiting your grilling reply..
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by soniya saxena:
what kind of skills do u think will fetch u that kind of money.



i dont know ..will it ? very good in designing enterprise solutions, some sort of a rep in the industry, a good knowledge of finance and ability to link the two...as McKinsay consultant or something.. what do you say
soniya saxena
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Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
This is not to put you down, but in my opinion, a 40-50 lakhs job for a person with 4-5 yrs experience is impossible, whatever may be his skillsets. I would think that to command such an amount, u must have 15-20 yrs of experience alongwith exceptional skillsets, going by today's standards. Curious to know what others think.


Originally posted by asit sheth:


i dont know ..will it ? very good in designing enterprise solutions, some sort of a rep in the industry, a good knowledge of finance and ability to link the two...as McKinsay consultant or something.. what do you say
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
If the current trend continues,it might be difficult for offshore companies to pay even the existing high salaries in India.In July 2004,1 US$ was Rs 46.5 and now its 43.5 .But the salaries from freshers to experienced are steadily increasing in India.In addition there is a high attrition rate.High land prices,high rent in cities are adding the problems.Although decrease in dollar/rupee ratio(thats Rupee getting stronger) is benificial to India as a country,its not good for people working in IT industry. .(Also its not much helpful for Non residential Indians working in US who are trying so "save").
[ February 04, 2005: Message edited by: Arjun Shastry ]
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by soniya saxena:
This is not to put you down, but in my opinion, a 40-50 lakhs job for a person with 4-5 yrs experience is impossible, whatever may be his skillsets. I would think that to command such an amount, u must have 15-20 yrs of experience alongwith exceptional skillsets, going by today's standards. Curious to know what others think.




thanks for not screaming at me ! i was sure you would. ya when i see around i also see it extremely unlikely. but its just a projection of my potential in the industry 5 years from now. slowly that projection will have to amalgamate and align with what the industry offers. hope i can manage without too much of a deviation...
on the same note provided you still dont scream : is there absolutely no one in the IT industry and i include IT consulting who is making like 30-40 lpa at 28 years...coz jim carey said in dumb and dumber : Even if its 1 in a million, cant beat the fact I do have a chance!
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Thats the reason people in Bollywood earn even more than what you quoted.
Sridhar Garimella
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Joined: Feb 18, 2000
Posts: 73
Hi,

I totally agree with Soniya. Its not possible to earn 40 to 50 lakhs after 4 or 5 yrs in India in technology area. At the same time I know people(atleast 2) who moved into trading desk from technology and earning much more than above amount in UK( where I'm working ). You may earn close to the above amount if you get an opportunity to become a trader or some thing like that in investment banks in India if they outsource trading jobs.


Thanks,<br />Sridhar.
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Sridhar Garimella:
Hi,

I totally agree with Soniya. Its not possible to earn 40 to 50 lakhs after 4 or 5 yrs in India in technology area. At the same time I know people(atleast 2) who moved into trading desk from technology and earning much more than above amount in UK( where I'm working ). You may earn close to the above amount if you get an opportunity to become a trader or some thing like that in investment banks in India if they outsource trading jobs.


as in u mean in the stock markets or something..?could you elaborate
[ February 04, 2005: Message edited by: asit sheth ]
Sridhar Garimella
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Joined: Feb 18, 2000
Posts: 73
Hi,

Stock markets is just one area but there are so many other areas where trading happens like bond markets, money markets( T-bills etc), FX, derivatives( interest rate, credit, equity, commodity). I dont know how active the derivatives and FX markets in India at present. I'm sure they will pickup in few years time.

The people which I was refering earlier worked as developers initially and acquired good business knowledge and moved into trading desk when they got an opportunity. They are doing pretty well in that role.

Just stick to one business area, learn as much as possible and move into business role when you get an opportunity.
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Sridhar Garimella:
Hi,

Stock markets is just one area but there are so many other areas where trading happens like bond markets, money markets( T-bills etc), FX, derivatives( interest rate, credit, equity, commodity). I dont know how active the derivatives and FX markets in India at present. I'm sure they will pickup in few years time.

The people which I was refering earlier worked as developers initially and acquired good business knowledge and moved into trading desk when they got an opportunity. They are doing pretty well in that role.

Just stick to one business area, learn as much as possible and move into business role when you get an opportunity.


Sorry to bother you.. but how are they using that development experience in a trading role.. am not clear. is it like developing applications for these markets like bond trading etc...software for sensex analysis..etc..
please do let me know.. u might have just solved my problem
Sridhar Garimella
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Joined: Feb 18, 2000
Posts: 73
Asit,

Yes they worked for few years on the applications supporting the business before moving into their new role.

If you work on applications that are supporting particular business for few yrs, you will learn some % of domain knowledge. Its not that much hard to learn business concepts if you show interest and put some extra effort. Infact its easy b.coz your day to day activity involves talking to business analysts, ops people, experienced collegues, PL/PMs( who are in the business for several years) and some times with the traders if your role also involves supporting the application.
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Sridhar Garimella:
Asit,

Yes they worked for few years on the applications supporting the business before moving into their new role.

If you work on applications that are supporting particular business for few yrs, you will learn some % of domain knowledge. Its not that much hard to learn business concepts if you show interest and put some extra effort. Infact its easy b.coz your day to day activity involves talking to business analysts, ops people, experienced collegues, PL/PMs( who are in the business for several years) and some times with the traders if your role also involves supporting the application.



actually if you see how this discussion started it was me thinking about doing an mba from an iim specializing in finance and going into some sort of line like this. i just dint know the worsd to put my question fit in..actaully what i am hoping is with ard 30 months of ex in java/j2EE architectures and a specialization in fiance i might get into some sort this line where eventually few years down i can make a move to wall street in a big way..what do you think..?
Manmohan Singhania
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Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 55
Then you will earn 40 lakhs per year.By age 35,you will retire.Then you will purchase two houses,one in india and one in US.You will work as senior consultant of some great firm.You will have two offices.One in Delhi and one in New York.Air India will give you special discount as a regular commuter.Thats what you want ,right? Go ahead


Jayalalitha is my girl friend. KarunaNidhi is my boy friend
asit sheth
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Manmohan Singh:
Then you will earn 40 lakhs per year.By age 35,you will retire.Then you will purchase two houses,one in india and one in US.You will work as senior consultant of some great firm.You will have two offices.One in Delhi and one in New York.Air India will give you special discount as a regular commuter.Thats what you want ,right? Go ahead


thanks buddy for your sarcasm... u dint have to spell it. i could have assumed it by default. and best of luck to you too...
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
subject: confluence of iim and java/j2EE architect ???