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Depressed ...

Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

Hi all.
(I'm not sure if this forum is suitable).
I'm really depressed and I need some help from older ranchers here ...
Some people in this life call themselves : developers, geeks, nerds, hackers just because they have read some books or graduated from excellent universities, and when you talk to them you will find that they do not know any thing.
What about a guy who told me that Java is a low level language ??!
What about a manager that his company don't believe in crab like ant (you have your IDE, why ant ? ant is useless, he told me) ?
I want to ask a question to all the ranchers here that they have job and experience ..
When you started your career, did the companies treat you like a dumb ??
I'm not a professional, but also not a rookie.
I don't like to think that a person who called himself a developer or geek (like the previous examples) will evaluate my level ...
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by John Todd:
Hi all.
(I'm not sure if this forum is suitable).
I'm really depressed and I need some help from older ranchers here ...
Some people in this life call themselves : developers, geeks, nerds, hackers just because they have read some books or graduated from excellent universities, and when you talk to them you will find that they do not know any thing.
What about a guy who told me that Java is a low level language ??!
What about a manager that his company don't believe in crab like ant (you have your IDE, why ant ? ant is useless, he told me) ?
I want to ask a question to all the ranchers here that they have job and experience ..
When you started your career, did the companies treat you like a dumb ??
I'm not a professional, but also not a rookie.
I don't like to think that a person who called himself a developer or geek (like the previous examples) will evaluate my level ...


Don't be depressed, it's not you. There are people, both technical and management who don't know what they are doing. There have always been bad managers, in my first job many years ago we called our manager "sh*t for brains", and that was an insult to what my dog does in the park.

You will find lots of people who don't appreciate real programming, they hope that IDE's and Workflow systems will let them get rid of those troublesome overpaid programmers, that has gone on since the first Fortran compiler was announced. You really don't want to work with these people.

There are also lots of competent, intelligent people in this industry. Many of them are not in the "business apps" area where all the money appears to be, but you will probably enjoy life a lot more the further you are from that area.
Marc Peabody
pie sneak
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Posts: 4727

Originally posted by John Todd:
I don't like to think that a person who called himself a developer or geek (like the previous examples) will evaluate my level ...


That's really not so bad. If you know more than the one evaluating you, you are an "expert".


A good workman is known by his tools.
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Dont get depressed. Face him you will get stronger every day
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
> I'm really depressed and I need some help from older ranchers here ...
Talk about it, it helps.
If you pen it up it'll eat you and drive you towards something you won't have a chance to regret...

> What about a guy who told me that Java is a low level language ??!

Compared to some things it may be

>What about a manager that his company don't believe in crab like ant (you
>have your IDE, why ant ? ant is useless, he told me) ?

They exist. In part it's ignorance, in large part it's an attitude of not wanting to risk their hides by approving new tools.
Or they're frustrated because they DO want those tools but can't get approval from up high to use them, and they repeat the official mantra no matter how disgusted they are about it.

>When you started your career, did the companies treat you like a dumb ??

No, they treated me like the inexperienced but promising person I was. And I acted like that, I didn't try to force my opinion and didn't try to show off my knowledge.
Instead I absorbed what they showed me like a sponge and kept my opinions to myself until such a time as they would be respected.

>I'm not a professional, but also not a rookie.

Loose that attitude. In a professional environment you ARE the rookie. You know Java, have maybe tasted some open source projects, but you've not worked in a commercial environment where money is the bottomline.
Out here in the wild we don't use a tool because we think it would be cool to try it, we use it because it brings a positive return on investment.
Often we're not the ones to select those tools, we're in fact happy if we can provide any direction in the selection process at all.

>I don't like to think that a person who called himself a developer or geek
>(like the previous examples) will evaluate my level ...

Get used to it, that's what will and does happen. The least competent developers tend to be promoted away from places where they can do direct harm towards management positions where they are under closer supervision (and have people under them to cushion the impact of their mistakes).


42
Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

Thanks all ...
> Compared to some things it may be
Actually, he told me that Java is like C
> they treated me like the inexperienced
It is ok since I have no experience, but the problem is some people really like to show me how much they are geeks (geeks like the previous examples).
> I didn't try to force my opinion and didn't try to show off my knowledge.
I don't force my opinion over other developers, I'm not the smartest guy in this galaxy (I don't have experience after all) and a long journey is waiting for me.
My wish is to work with smart guys and learn from them some thing new every day.
And my dream is to be like Richard Monson Haefel, James Gosling, Bill Joy, Guy Steele and many other great developers (Well, I have to stop dreaming, because I will never be like them )
Maybe it is better for me to get used to know that some people will call themselves hackers, nerds ..... It is a fact of life
Thanks all again .
 
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