File APIs for Java Developers
Manipulate DOC, XLS, PPT, PDF and many others from your application.
http://aspose.com/file-tools
The moose likes JSP and the fly likes Do you work with JSP designers? Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


Win a copy of Murach's Java Servlets and JSP this week in the Servlets forum!
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Java » JSP
Bookmark "Do you work with JSP designers?" Watch "Do you work with JSP designers?" New topic
Author

Do you work with JSP designers?

Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60766
    
  65

It's been a long-held premise that, structured correctly -- where JSPs are used as pure view templates, designers who don't code can write JSPs using the JSTL, EL and custom tags set up by the engineering staff.

In practice, I've never worked in an organization that worked that way. In all the web application jobs I've held, the developers are responsible for the JSP pages in addition to the Java components. Heck, I'm even responsible for pushing the pixels around in Photoshop.

That may just be because I've usually worked for startups, or, even in larger organizations, in a small group of engineers.

Does anybody actually work in an environment where the JSPs are written by non-coding designers using components set up by the Java devos?


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Seetharaman Venkatasamy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 5575

Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
Heck, I'm even responsible for pushing the pixels around in Photoshop.
Does anybody actually work in an environment where the JSPs are written by non-coding designers using components set up by the Java devos?[/QB]


NO...

---------------------------------
Heck, I'm even responsible for pushing the pixels around in Photoshop
---------------------------------



Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60766
    
  65

Why the eye rolls?
Seetharaman Venkatasamy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 5575

Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
Why the eye rolls?


Hi Bear,

thats not eye rolls , rolling with laughing .... because some of my friends frustrated of photoshop because they are programmer ..
but i did not think that you are develop photoshop work... thats why.. sorry....

and i am also involving to develop jsp with java code...

Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60766
    
  65

Ah, I got it now. With smilies disabled, I mistook the one you meant. As I have an art background, Photoshop isn't an issue for me. But yeah, I see your point.
tuty sra
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 30, 2008
Posts: 16
It is always good to have the JSP without scriplets. It helps the people maintaining the JSP code apart from the web designers. There are some JSP page s I have seen containing all processing logic and lot of scriplet in it, extending more than 3500+ lines of code. What I meant to say is keeping the JSP with only tags helps everyone ;-)
Jeanne Boyarsky
internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30076
    
149

Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
In practice, I've never worked in an organization that worked that way. In all the web application jobs I've held, the developers are responsible for the JSP pages in addition to the Java components. Heck, I'm even responsible for pushing the pixels around in Photoshop.

Me neither. We have had a different person making HTML mockups. We were repsonsible for copying the HTML into a JSP and replacing pieces of it with tags. I suspect this is one of those more theoretical parts of the J2EE model.

As a variant of this, I also hear about the practice that non-developers are going to add logic with EL. I don't get this part. If it's not comparison operators in it (or tags that do that), it's still a form of programming - just different syntax.

Tuty: Bear's not questioning the value of the keeping the code out of the JSP. He even wrote an article years back.


[Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions The Smart Way] [Book Promos]
Blogging on Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, OCAJP, OCPJP beta, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
Jimmy Clark
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 2187
Not currently, but some time ago (2002-2003) we created JSP tags based on requirements from business depts. They used them to create their HTML pages. The two main ones did parsing of XML and transformation with XSL, the other was used to display data that was extracted from a database.

They created the JSP pages with only HTML tags and the JSP tags we developed. This was a very large organization.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60766
    
  65

Originally posted by Jeanne Boyarsky:
Tuty: Bear's not questioning the value of the keeping the code out of the JSP. He even wrote an article years back.

Indeed! I oppose, vehemently, the use of any Java scriptlets on JSP pages since the advent of JSP 2.0. Tuty, my question is whether you've known any organizations, such as BigDecimal Bear describes, where non-coders are responsible for the JSP page rather than developers.
[ September 21, 2008: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3476

Me neither.
I'm responsible for HTML, JSF, JSP and CSS.
Is the case better with frameworks like Tapestry and Wicket? I don't think so...
Amit Ghorpade
Bartender

Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 2716
    
    6

We have a graphics design team, but it only takes care of images and Flash kind of stuff.
The final view is our responsibility.


SCJP, SCWCD.
|Asking Good Questions|
tuty sra
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 30, 2008
Posts: 16
Hi guys,
Thanks for your clarifications. I wanted to tell that the JSP is written and maintained by the developers in my project, I added some of my thoughts on making JPS with tags without scriplets which deviated from the topic. I wanted to stress the importance of scriplet less JSP. Since the developers are maintaining the JSP in many cases.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Do you work with JSP designers?
 
Similar Threads
I hate my tech lead....
JBoss, EJB and JSP
Java community took Java too far?
JSF: What UI components are available?
New To JSP