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how certifications are important

amit taneja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 810
hii...

me preparing for scjp...
and will give scwcd and scbcd too within months...

rt now i don't have job...and have one yr of exp..

can you pls tell me that how certifaction will make help in getting job..

or it will make the worse the situation... by this i mean that when interview will come to know that i have some certifications they will not try to ask much questions from the cetifications topic but will start afterwords i.e ask advanced questions.. this is what my senior says...

but i m confused

becuase i think certification will definetly give the "knowlege" of depth of sujbect either its corejava for sjcp or ..jsp/servlets/ for scwcd or
ejb for scbcd ..

if i above certification..... i will get v.good knowlege about these subjects and will definetly help me to crack interviews because they cover each basic details ( sply getting certified on particular subject)
and one will easily be able to answer all indepth question too..

my thinking is based upon the fact as i m well preparied for scjp...
and it covers all small details of corejava...and i have given interview in some companies... and able to always crack corejava...

so will i not be able to crack jsp/servlets and ejb if i do above certification soon...

but my experience is one year and have recently given interview at iflex but didn't get selected...

and they aske many questions from

design patterns
and other advanced tools

my friends say getting certificate willhelp you to join only small medium size co..
and not big mnc's

is it true...?

they say that certification is meaningless and they only look for knowledge of the person according to the no. of experience he has and ask projects...
is they are right ? they say certication is only to make highlight your resumes and thats it and it will make interview more tough as they will start after and more advance things...which i may not know

then it will be better to go to study the certification books only for in-depth knowlege and don't show certification...and only show skills he learned so he will ask question from that level and we will easily be answer to the questions...

I m confused ...regarding above topic....
pls reply with honesty....


*****************************************************************

I have one more question ( answer it seperately ) to advance java proffessional that how much good extend of knowlege one gets as he got more no. of experience provided he got good projects...where he can apply many adv.java techniques...
this is question because as if i get certification which covers almost complete and indepth course of the subject...
( provided we have studied good amt for certifiation) then will he don't have v.good knowledge of subjec as compare to person don't have certification... well i also think its upto person how one uses the knowlege to make the project better....

my intention is to know that how much one learns the topics in two casses
1. if certified...he has v.good amt of knowldege and only apply those knowlege for making good projects..
2. if not certified he will continue to gain knowlege as per proejct requirements..and experience..

so a person of no. 1 category has more knolwege then person of category no.2 ..even no.1 has less experience...

Actually i m v.ambitious and wanted to rise in my carrer v.fast, intelligently and with full knowdege...

so getting certified and having full knowege will help for fight the above two cases...so i can rise v.quicly provided i m v.dedicated and intelligent to apply knowldge for problem-solving...

pls reply

***********************************************************

Regards,
[ May 29, 2005: Message edited by: amit taneja ]

Thanks and Regards, Amit Taneja
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18821
    
  40


then it will be better to go to study the certification books only for in-depth knowlege and don't show certification...and only show skills he learned so he will ask question from that level and we will easily be answer to the questions...


If you don't have the experience, and you won't show certification, wouldn't that lessen your chances of getting the interview in the first place?

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with getting "hard" questions during an interview. In fact, I would be somewhat concerned, if I don't get them. Remember, they are looking for the best person to hire. And the way to do that is to find the limits of the skills of all the candidates.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18821
    
  40

I have one more question ( answer it seperately ) to advance java proffessional that how much good extend of knowlege one gets as he got more no. of experience provided he got good projects...where he can apply many adv.java techniques...


I am not really sure of your second question, but I'll try to answer it this way...

"Experience" is more than Java skills. It is about information gathering, problem solving, working with colleagues, working with clients, and a ton of other intangibles that you gain with experience.

Also, I wouldn't hold onto the Java requirement too tightly. Ten years ago, C++ was the hot language, and 10 years from now, who knows...

I don't know if you want to do this, but I would suggest you read "The Pragmatic Programmer" by Hunt & Thomas. It is not about Java, but it should give you some insite into the thinking of an experienced developer.

Henry
Roger Chung-Wee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 29, 2002
Posts: 1683
Only a tiny proportion of jobs stipulate that certification is needed or valuable. What I have found is that studying for certification gives you a far better understanding of the subject, so you will be able to do a better job than if you had not studied. It is then up to you to make good use of this advantage, eg getting promotion, landing a demanding job that you might not otherwise have been considered for.


SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.3, SCBCD 1.3
Deep Arora
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 40
Amit,

Certifications definayely add overall value not only to your resume but also to your subject level expertise. I am telling you even getting certification is not an easy job I mean it demands time, effort and dedication which you may not be able to give tomorrow depending upon what else is happening in your life.

So if you are fortunate enough (Believe me that method take java.util.date as parameter) to afford time and better DO IT NOW

I acquired OOAD with UML ceret when I had only 18 months od experience, I knew I shall not be applying for PM job next month but after that I started understanding many of the things that my PM ddoes and it definately definately has made me a better productive insightful developer than I was before.

so the bottomline is if you think you can climb Mt Everst. believe me not only you can but YOU SHOULD. tomorrow you may not. Your GF may get married to some one else (Then you are broke) and if she gets married to you that is even worset case scenario.

Deepak
K Riaz
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 375
Amit,
Do you have a CS degree?
[ May 29, 2005: Message edited by: Kashif Riaz ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
I recommend searchng under this forum for "certification" and/or "SCJP". This topic has been discussed many times before. (Which is not to say it shouldn't be discussed now, just that you'll find many more answers to your questions by also searching.)

--Mark
amit taneja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 810
thanx guys...
and thanx mark (bartender) for ur view...but pls don't close this thread because...i asked so may question may not be asked earlier..( read my full post carefull )
and

guys pls give more view and have more brainstroming...

Kashif Riaz ..Ya i have done MCA (master of computer application)(Regular)
and completed last year...
I will show one year of exp. in my resume..as i worked till jan this year and will show some amt of exp ...

Yes deep arora, thanx...
Ok.. tell me one more thing...that

1. I wanted to achive fast my professional expertise in less time so we can think about later thing...MY aim is to become cheif techincal architect and to be techy...
so thats why i want more and more certificate to get indepth technical knowlege as well as professional expertise on subject...

2. how difficult ( pls be honest ) to study with job for different levels of certification....as my aim is to get all certificate availible regarding my carrer i.e scjp,scwcd,scbcd,scwsd,scea,xml,uml, ocp...

can it be possible to get all the ceritification within 8-10 months max.

As we in regular degree course doo study different subjects...
and pass many papers in each semester with good marks..

though these cert require bit indepth knowldege..how diffiult is to cope wiht job..

Q. Rt now i don't have job.. I have two options
a. to get job after scjp and do other certification with job.
b. i can spend one more month after scjp for gettting atleast two certification i.e scwcd,scbcd and do other cert with job or what ???

pls pls reply


Best Regards,
amit
amit taneja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 810
mark i searched what you said...but
its showing only upt 200 search result and that also from starting of year 2000 so i m not able to get search result of newly posted post/replys

This is because new made discussion/thread on this topic will be on the basis of current market requirement and demand/supply of professionals etc.

so pls continue this thread friends....and my spl request to answer as much question as you can.... this will give enlightment to all and have better brainstromming...

Regards,
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Don't worry, I don't close threads just because they've been asked before. The topics in this forum especially tend to change over time. (My own opinion is that the value of certifications has remained constant, and relatively low the past few years, but I am just one opinion among others and I am here to encourage voices, not limit them.)

You're right about the search limits, I'll have to look into that. This link is a subset but includes more recent postings.

--Mark
amit taneja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 810
"This Link" is not wroking but only showing the home page of all fourms..

its showing this following link page
http://www.javaranch.com
[ May 30, 2005: Message edited by: amit taneja ]
Shruti Kale
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 82
Hi Amit,

Yes I did show both SCJP and SCWCD in my resume. Using it for the next job search was one of my motivations for giving the exams!! And YES it did help although the interviewer expected me to know a lot more on account of them. They mostly focussed on the basics/fundamentals. They didn't ask me anything unheard of.
All said and done I haven'e got my offer letter so I am also now a part of the "not selected" group.
In my case all they expected was fundamentals so make sure you are strong with that!! I have 1.5 yrs of experience. They did not ask me any EJB, it wasn't mentioned anywhere in my CV.

All the very best! Hope I have answered all your questions!

[ May 30, 2005: Message edited by: Smriti Katyal ]

[ May 30, 2005: Message edited by: Smriti Katyal ]

[ May 30, 2005: Message edited by: Smriti Katyal ]
[ June 02, 2005: Message edited by: Smriti Katyal ]

SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4
rashmi choudhary
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 37
Hi Ranchers,

Doing SCJP 1.4 and scwcd 1.4 Certification was the gateway for me to get job in good company with good package even though i dont have any real time exp.What my suggestion is if u do the certification u can answer well in the interview u will get confidence on the subject in depth.If u dont have job or have time plz prepare for certification.It will definetly help ur carrier.
amit taneja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 810
hi rashmai..and smriti
i m v.glad to have reply from you...
thanx you v.much...

smriti ...can you pls tell me more about
what database type of question are asked in iflex ...

***********************

HEY RANCHERS DO CONTINUE THIS THREAD......

AND POST YOUR VIEWS / MOST IMPORTANT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH CERTIFICATION

THIS WILL GIVE REAL SOURCE OF TRUTH REGARDING CERTIFICATION VALUE...

PLS CONTINUE...
[ May 31, 2005: Message edited by: amit taneja ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Oops, the link didn't work. Well, roughly searches are currently capped at 200 results. If you search for those terms and include my member ID (6344) you'll get more of the recent threads.

--Mark
M Burke
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 388
I don't think a cert gets you a job directly. But the knowledge improves your skills and makes it easier to get hired based on that.
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
certifications are only important if u have sufficient experience and will add value if u also have proper prograduate degree


BEA 8.1 Certified Administrator, IBM Certified Solution Developer For XML 1.1 and Related Technologies, SCJP, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCDJWS, SCJD, SCEA,
Oracle Certified Master Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect
 
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