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how to start

preeti patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 2
I just passed scjp with 85% and preparing for scwcd.i had little or no experiance in computer as computer is not my background. Righ now i am in us on h4 visa.So how to start my carrer in java?
Santana Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 335
Similar question,
I am in Mumbai, India.
I passed SCJA (Java Associate), SCJP1.4 exam with 96%.
I completed BE in Computer Engineering.

How to find job?
I already applied at many companies but I do not think it is of much use because they must have thousands of entries in their DB and as I am fresher I doubt I would be successful.

So what you recommend how to start looking for job (hopefully a decent one)
Does score make difference I mean if one gets 98% or 100%.

any tips, advice, suggestions, any information.
[ October 03, 2005: Message edited by: Santana Iyer ]
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
Santana , What you are saying is wrong.

The best way to find the job in the company is put your resume
in the companies database.

They select the candidate from their database when they have any requirement that meets with your resume.

So , You should post your resume to the companies hr id's and
fill the companies online resume .

You will surely get calls from companies


Lack of will power has caused more failure than lack of intelligence or ability.
My Blog | Red5 Resources | Technology Update | Daily Technology Tips
Santana Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 335
thanks Sunil that was good relief.
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Post your resume to as many companys as possible. Thats the only opiton for freshers. If you post your resume thru reference thats more better.

Good Luck
Santana Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 335
KJ I am SCJA, SCJP (96%),
what you would say most imp. (eye catcher) to include in resume,
any tips....
and from your and sunil's post it seems I did right by sending CV to
as many people, company as I can, but it will take time....
right any rough idea how long it takes like 15 days, 30 days

I also posted my resume to Naukri, jobsahead, monsterindia etc.
but it has not been viewed even a single time (just 3 days has passed from date of creation), is it normal?
[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Santana Iyer ]
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
If you are fresher and dont have CS background your SCJA, SCJP are eye catchers. You can put if you done any projects.

If you are fresher and dont have CS degree then its hard to tell how long it takes to get interview call. 15 days or 30 days is too less. For me atleast more than 4 months to get my first job as I dont have formal CS degree and initially I started as technical writer and within few days moved to development. So suggest try all options to get break.
Santana Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 335
Thanks KJ for reply,

I have BE degree Bachelor of Engineer in Computer Engineering from Mumbai University (equivalent to BE/Btech Comp Engg Comp Sci).

My concern is that if I get call from some unknown company for an ordinary job what to do, wait for big opps or.... (but than threat that one may miss the bus ...)
[ October 04, 2005: Message edited by: Santana Iyer ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Sunil Kumar Gupta:

The best way to find the job in the company is put your resume
in the companies database.

They select the candidate from their database when they have any requirement that meets with your resume.


I'm not sure if you honestly believe this or were making a joke.

In the US, this is absolutely the worst way to get a job. The best way is through networking. Companies very rarely look through their databases to fill a slot, and much prefer to find someone through a personal connection.

India is not the US, but the same principles apply. Those principles may be ignored and perhaps many companies do look through their databases, but I have no doubt that within a decade or two, it will look much more like the US model of hiring.

--Mark
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
santana, you have really hacked the original thread. your question is not all similar to the original question, though you may think it is. Starting off a career in US with an H4 visa is a totally different ball game and is much tougher than a fresher getting a job in India. So the responses that you are receiving will in no way be useful to the original poster.

Originally posted by Santana Iyer:
Similar question,
I am in Mumbai, India.
I passed SCJA (Java Associate), SCJP1.4 exam with 96%.
I completed BE in Computer Engineering.

How to find job?
I already applied at many companies but I do not think it is of much use because they must have thousands of entries in their DB and as I am fresher I doubt I would be successful.

So what you recommend how to start looking for job (hopefully a decent one)
Does score make difference I mean if one gets 98% or 100%.

any tips, advice, suggestions, any information.

[ October 03, 2005: Message edited by: Santana Iyer ]
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18118
    
  39

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

I'm not sure if you honestly believe this or were making a joke.


Mark,

To be fair, the question was "how to start"?. I think, sometimes, us old-timers forget what it is like to enter a market with no experience. Heck, fresh out of college, even many head hunters won't talk to you.

And it is kinda hard to network, when all of you "friends" are also freshly graduated.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
And it is kinda hard to network, when all of you "friends" are also freshly graduated.


I won't dispute this point, but it's worth noting that there are opportunities to socialize with people that are older and more experienced.

For example, many of the people in my church are a decade or so older than my wife and I. Whereas I have been working as a developer/senior developer over the past couple of years, many of them are managers, directors, and even vice presidents. While few have been in a position to simply hand me a job, they have been very helpful in the past in helping me pursue leads inside of their companies and offering recommendations on my behalf.

So maybe a good piece of advice to freshers is to start diversifying their social networks as quickly as they can.
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
(1) H1-first approach: Pay some consulting company X to do your H1. Once you get your H1, hunt for a contract position. X may or may not assist you with this. When you find a contract, you can tell the client to contact X so that they can negotiate your rates, or you can yourself do that depending on your understanding with X.

(2) Staggered H1 approach: Talk to some consulting company X to do your H1 when you find a contract. Hunt for a contract. When you find a contract, you can tell the client to contact X so that they can negotiate your rates, or you can yourself do that depending on your understanding with X. X starts your H1 processing. Depending on margins, either X or you may pay for H1. Till the time that your H1 comes, you pretend that you have an H1 and work for the client. X pays you by check till that time. X could also pay you nothing till that time, and once your H1 comes, X could pay you the accumulated amount as reimbursements or in some funky way.

Ok, now I think I should prepare myself for welcoming all those who would like to raise a hue and cry over what I have just said. Guys, I am just telling what happens out there. It is a personal choice whether to go this route or not. But then does Preeti have an option?

Originally posted by preeti patel:
I just passed scjp with 85% and preparing for scwcd.i had little or no experiance in computer as computer is not my background. Righ now i am in us on h4 visa.So how to start my carrer in java?
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
I doubt :roll:
Originally posted by Sunil Kumar Gupta:
Santana , What you are saying is wrong.

The best way to find the job in the company is put your resume
in the companies database.

They select the candidate from their database when they have any requirement that meets with your resume.

So , You should post your resume to the companies hr id's and
fill the companies online resume .

You will surely get calls from companies


:roll:
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Henry Wong:

To be fair, the question was "how to start"?. I think, sometimes, us old-timers forget what it is like to enter a market with no experience. Heck, fresh out of college, even many head hunters won't talk to you.

And it is kinda hard to network, when all of you "friends" are also freshly graduated.


I will granted you that it's certainly harder when first out of college, but that is "no excuse." (Quoted, because I don't want to sound barating, i respect our countrary opinion.)

1) Although networking is harder, it's still better than the alternative of blindly senidng resumes.

2) Now is the best time to ingrain good job seeking habits, not after you've been in the job market for 10-20 years.

3) In today's world, networking is easier than ever. It's no longer just the country clubs. As Rob pointed out, networking is not just about your friends. Use other groups to which you belong including religious groups, community service activities, hobby groups, etc. Technology tends to have a lot of networking type events--at least in the US. I don't know about India, but I do know JUGs are worldwide. And if there isn't a JUG or other networking group near you, start our own.

4) As a new graduate, some networking is easier. Many people remember their first job out of college and know how tough it is. For me, in my 30's to be lost and confused and ask for jobs and maybe make some networking faux pas, won't look good, but if it's a kid out of school, people tend to want to be more helpful. For example, if I just blindly emailed a bunch of my college alumni and said "help, I need a job and am having trouble finding one" it's likely to be less well received then if a new, enterprising young grad did the same.

5) As for head hunters, while I do use them both as a candidate and a hiring manager, they should never be substituted for your own search. Too many people blindly put their careers in the hands of head hunters. We're talking about your job, your career, your finances, your life! It's your responsibility. So now having access to head hunters should only have a minimal impact on your job search. If that's not the case, it's time to rethink how you look for jobs.

--Mark
preeti patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 2
thanks soniya, but i think this year h1 quota is over and i do not know how to find any consultant company? do you hava any suggestion about it? i read somewhere in this form that best way to get experieance is to do some volunteer work on online project. where to find this type of project?
Ram kovis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 130
Rob and Mark,

Those are very nice suggestions..

thanks!
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18118
    
  39

First of all, don't worry about respecting my opposing opinion. It is more a matter of empathy on my part, than actually belief. I probably agree with all of your points. In fact, I would probably be labelled as a "bleed heart liberal" by some of my friends about now. (assuming they see this thread)

There is one issue that I would like to add to ...

5) As for head hunters, while I do use them both as a candidate and a hiring manager, they should never be substituted for your own search. Too many people blindly put their careers in the hands of head hunters. We're talking about your job, your career, your finances, your life! It's your responsibility. So now having access to head hunters should only have a minimal impact on your job search. If that's not the case, it's time to rethink how you look for jobs.


I absolutely agree with this. The last time I did a job search, I got tons of head hunters, which were all referred. While they were nice, they basically bought little to the table. I spend lots of time interviewing with them, but absolutely nothing in terms of any customer contact came from it. I really felt like I was being milked for references.

In retrospect, I probably didn't stay on the market long enough for them to find me anything. Or maybe I was too picky... Or maybe, in my opinion, my network was better than theirs. In any case, the next time I look for a job, head hunters will definitely have "minimal impact" -- probably as a way for practice my interviewing skills.

Henry
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


I'm not sure if you honestly believe this or were making a joke.

In the US, this is absolutely the worst way to get a job. The best way is through networking. Companies very rarely look through their databases to fill a slot, and much prefer to find someone through a personal connection.

India is not the US, but the same principles apply. Those principles may be ignored and perhaps many companies do look through their databases, but I have no doubt that within a decade or two, it will look much more like the US model of hiring.

--Mark


In India distrubuting your resume to companies will work many times. Atleast I do get interview calls many times because my resume is there with them long back. The best way is networking bec many interviewers prefers resumes thru references. Atleast for freshers thats better option.
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
I am following to KJ. Atleast i get calls from the company by submitting my resume to their websites.

Most recently i got a call from a very big company and they shortlisted my resume from their local database.

So dont worry about the call , just forward your resume to companies.

and most of the companies call the candidate which are referred by the company employees.

try to do that also

Best of luck
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
thanks soniya, but i think this year h1 quota is over and i do not know how to find any consultant company? do you hava any suggestion about it?
Just apply on monster and dice.

i read somewhere in this form that best way to get experieance is to do some volunteer work on online project.
that will give you experience, but not a job; atleast thats what i feel.

where to find this type of project?
check out sourceforge to be part of open-source projects.
I dont remember the names off the top of my head, but there are several sites that let you bid for projects. If you get the deal, you can execute the project and get paid for it. But since you dont have any experience, I dont think this option is for you.

Most important, learn to google. If you google effectively, you will get a lot of such information.
Dharam Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2005
Posts: 162
Originally posted by soniya saxena:

Most important, learn to google. If you google effectively, you will get a lot of such information.

I think these sentences belong to blatant advertising.It looks like she is campaiging for Google.


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