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Upping the H1-B Quota numbers

Homer Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
Sent to Homer on 10/19. I never got the email last week. Did any one hear if the legislation got introduced?



IEEE-USA CARE Members:

You should have received an e-mail from me last week
regarding an effort in Congress to raise the H-1B cap.
IEEE-USA has learned that proponents of this plan may
introduce it formally at a hearing tomorrow. However,
they are not yet certain they have the votes to win.
If the supporters conclude that they do not, the
measure will not even be introduced.

It is vital that all IEEE members who oppose the expansion
of the H-1B program contact their legislators by tomorrow
(Thursday, October 20th) afternoon. We can beat this
proposal before it is even considered, but only if your
legislators hear from you today.

Of particular importance are Senators from Massachusetts,
Vermont, California, Iowa, Utah, South Carolina, Oklahoma
and Pennsylvania. Your Senators are key votes in this effort.
Therefore, your support will be especially important in
helping us win.

You can access the IEEE-USA Legislative Action Center here
for more information, and to contact your members of
Congress: https://www.capitolconnect.com/ieee.

Thank you for your help and continued support.

Russ Harrison
IEEE-USA
(202) 785-0017

Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Homer !

Sent to Homer on 10/19. I never got the email last week. Did any one hear if the legislation got introduced?

Looks like it already did, as press articles write it down :
http://www.computerworld.com/careertopics/careers/labor/story/0,10801,105645,00.html?source=x10

OCTOBER 21, 2005 (IDG NEWS SERVICE) - The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee has approved an extra 30,000 foreign-worker visas for 2006...............The committee yesterday approved legislation that would expand the cap on H-1B skilled-worker visas from 65,000 to 95,000 in the U.S. government's fiscal year 2006......The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers Inc.-USA (IEEE-USA), representing U.S. IT workers, had opposed an increase in the H-1B cap. IEEE-USA would have preferred no increase, but "30,000 is better than 60,000,"

So it really looks like law already is or will be voted anyway.


Eric LEMAITRE
CNAM IT Engineer, MS/CS (RHCE, RHCX, SCJA, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, Net+)
Free Online Tutorials: http://www.free-tutorials-online.net/
Dharam Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2005
Posts: 162
This is the another idea which is also coming up!!
The groups are trying to persuade Congress to increase the H-1B visa cap, which has already been reached for the 2006 fiscal year, it said. According to reports, the new plan is to offer unused H-1B visas from privious years beginning 1992, which numbers around 310,000.

Economic Times


Powered by Sonia
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
They are getting new H1's but what about the ones who are already here??

Looks like it will take forever (or maybe never) to get a green card now.....reminds me of some kind of fodder....get people on fresh H1's (make sure they get stuck with the same employer for 6 year waiting for the elusive GC....with no improvement in job profile and 3.5% p.a raise) then kick them out at the end of 6 years and get a fresh batch of new H1B's....

H1B's are worst hit,being legal immigrants...I guess it would have been much better to be an illeagal ....
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by ab parashar:
They are getting new H1's but what about the ones who are already here??

Looks like it will take forever (or maybe never) to get a green card now.....reminds me of some kind of fodder....get people on fresh H1's (make sure they get stuck with the same employer for 6 year waiting for the elusive GC....with no improvement in job profile and 3.5% p.a raise) then kick them out at the end of 6 years and get a fresh batch of new H1B's....


While I am a proponent of immigration, what obligation does the US government have to current H1-B's with respect to greencards? No one forces them to come take these jobs. You make it sound like H!-B's are some sort of slave labor, but it is a 100% opt in program, and, correct me if I'm wrong, an H1-B can quit and go home at any time.

--Mark
Homer Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
Thanks for the link Eric. It's interesting to note the author or the bill number is not cited.

From the Computer World article

The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee has approved an extra 30,000 foreign-worker visas for 2006 under a visa program popular with many technology companies, but the increase was halved from an earlier committee proposal.

This is the two steps forward one step backward brutal negotiating tactic made famous by the USSR. Or is FrankenFeinstein playing good Senator bad Senator with us?

correct me if I'm wrong, an H1-B can quit and go home at any time.


Sure one can if you did not sign a lease for lodging, sign a note for a car, start an MS degree or try to live the American Dream. IMO, you are trolling Mark. I'd love a sheriff's opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Call the law.

Without question the H1-B can't collect his social security benefit.
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


While I am a proponent of immigration, what obligation does the US government have to current H1-B's with respect to greencards? No one forces them to come take these jobs. You make it sound like H!-B's are some sort of slave labor, but it is a 100% opt in program, and, correct me if I'm wrong, an H1-B can quit and go home at any time.

--Mark


You are absolutely right.No one forced anyone to take up these jobs.I have nothing against the H1 B program but the gripe is against the UCIS, for the slow pace of legal immigration(read GC process).

One thing that I learnt in this country is "time is money".An immigration process that takes 6-10 years to complete (provided one stays with one employer) is in no way efficiant.Not being able to change jobs because of this, is a kind of a modern day slavery. I think its easy to deal with the entire indian red tapism and bureaucracy rather than the quagmire of the green card process.

Now consider if you came here illegally, you will now have an option to become legal workers.

Currently, the US law is that until a worker has not worked for 40 quarters (10 years), he can't claim social security. H1B is given for 6 years and automatically makes his contribution go waste.Because Citizens can live in US till their death and they allowed H1B's to live here for only 6 years...... apples and oranges .

Having said that,For H1s, SS can be viewed as the "tax" you pay to work in US. For me "tax" is a black hole where my money goes and I get some useful things in return like roads and footpaths and public libraries, and other not so useful things like public school system which I don't use. Everyone who came here should know about SS, or they find out when they get their first paycheck. It is part of the "package". Of course I would prefer to keep more money with myself than not. H1s not staying longer than 6 years should view their effective tax as the usual tax that everyone pays + SS.

It is completely unreasonable to say "but you have the opportunity to get SS back" because that entails getting a GC, a generally (and presently very) laborious process which not everyone wants to go through or "go home for one year then come back for another 6".

Oh yes,we are very well aware of the 6 year visa requirement before you accepted that wonderful offer. Caveat Emptor.
Jim Baker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 177
Does this still need a vote on the floor? Or Judiciary Committee alone is enough?
Tim Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 37
Hi all, I have a question regarding H1B visa. When one finishes 6 years of H1B and leaves US for good, can she/he claim the superannuation (or whatever it is called in the states, retirement fund?) that has been contributed?

Tim.
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Mark !

While I am a proponent of immigration, what obligation does the US government have to current H1-B's with respect to greencards? No one forces them to come take these jobs. You make it sound like H1-B's are some sort of slave labor, but it is a 100% opt in program, and, correct me if I'm wrong, an H1-B can quit and go home at any time.

Are you kidding ? Don't tell me you are not aware that all H1B holders aim only GC and nothing else, they work very hard under H1B status only providing they have fair chances to get one at the end. H1B is no easy leisure for them but a mandatory hard step to GC, so they keep on sweating much and won't quit to get back home at any price even under fierce abuses as some Indian ranchers clearly were whitnesses of. H1B is a real obligation which really turns to slave labor for many of them through bodyshoppers, we all know, they accept it as long as they stand a chance for GC.

What "ab parashar" was meaning IMHO is that as an immigration candidate through GC as all H1B holders, he wonders whether all the efforts he is making are really worth it. This is a real question, since if my sources are right in IT about 35% of H1B holders are Indians, but as GC may not be granted to more than 7% for a given nationality so as to allow ethnical diversity, it means than only 20% of all Indian H1B holders will have a GC at the end. Or if you prefer 80% of all Indian H1B holders will not have a GC anyway after 6 years as law states with 7% limit.

In clear if it is true US immigration system is totally unfair towards Indian IT pros, it lurks 80% of Indian H1B holders they may be granted a GC, while these 80% stand no chance to have one and US perfectly knows by advance. I say this is foul behaviour, if my figures are correct.
Sathvathsan Sampath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 96
Ab parashar - Please read by private message to you.
Apologies to others - please ignore this.


- Sathvathsan Sampath
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
Sure one can if you did not sign a lease for lodging, sign a note for a car, start an MS degree or try to live the American Dream. IMO, you are trolling Mark. I'd love a sheriff's opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Call the law.


Again, no one held a gun to their held and force them to sign a lease. They leases will expire and attending school is not a life or death requirement.

If you have an issue with my postings, feel free to complain to any and all of the sheriffs; you can find htem here.

--Mark
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:

Are you kidding ? Don't tell me you are not aware that all H1B holders aim only GC and nothing else, they work very hard under H1B status only providing they have fair chances to get one at the end. H1B is no easy leisure for them but a mandatory hard step to GC, so they keep on sweating much and won't quit to get back home at any price even under fierce abuses as some Indian ranchers clearly were whitnesses of. H1B is a real obligation which really turns to slave labor for many of them through bodyshoppers, we all know, they accept it as long as they stand a chance for GC.


Good for them! I want people to come here and try for greencards. I also don't want just anyone to get it. I want the US to get the best and the brightest. I don't want it to be a trivial process.

Now if the US is misleading people about their chances, that is of concern. However, AFAIK, the numbers are public information. The odds might be low because you are competing with a large number of people and immigration caps but a ceiling on the number from each country (I thought it was by region but I might be a little out of date with the latest greencard policies).

It is slave labor only insomuch as the H1-B wants to stay in the US. At any time s/he can decide to return to India. I recognize that if you are here as part of a company, that may hurt your future employment with them, but again, that is a factor you can account for. In US companies plenty of people get assignments they don't like, but with the promise of raises/bonuses/promotions, and have to decide whether or not to ride it out or change jobs.

Again, greencards are not required to be happy. If we had this process for people applying as political refugees, that would be different, but this process is primarily used by educated workers. If they don't make it o, or it takes them a while, they simply need to factor those risks into trying to come here.


--Mark
Anand Prabhu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


Good for them! I want people to come here and try for greencards. I also don't want just anyone to get it. I want the US to get the best and the brightest. I don't want it to be a trivial process.

Now if the US is misleading people about their chances, that is of concern. However, AFAIK, the numbers are public information. The odds might be low because you are competing with a large number of people and immigration caps but a ceiling on the number from each country (I thought it was by region but I might be a little out of date with the latest greencard policies).

It is slave labor only insomuch as the H1-B wants to stay in the US. At any time s/he can decide to return to India. I recognize that if you are here as part of a company, that may hurt your future employment with them, but again, that is a factor you can account for. In US companies plenty of people get assignments they don't like, but with the promise of raises/bonuses/promotions, and have to decide whether or not to ride it out or change jobs.

Again, greencards are not required to be happy. If we had this process for people applying as political refugees, that would be different, but this process is primarily used by educated workers. If they don't make it o, or it takes them a while, they simply need to factor those risks into trying to come here.


--Mark


You have some very good points, Mark. I have been advising many Indians wanting to come to US about the headaches involved and the need for them to factor in these risks and uncertainties so that they do not put their families through unnecessary hardships. I have always reminded them that a visa is a privilege and not a right. The immigration matters are best decided by the country and many a times this is not favorable.
Ab and Eric have good points. The BCIS is very unpredictable. How they process/approve visas or GCs is a big mystery to me. Eg: my cousin, who is a famous researcher in the medical field and is in the top three in his field has not got his GC even after 7 years. The hospital, one of the most famous in US, is pitching in with the authorities to help him. I know many in the IT field who were not even graduates and who got their GC in 2 years; this was a couple of years ago. And now I hear that the process is dragging again. If the policy is to keep the best and the brightest, the BCIS needs an overhaul and better mechanisms for filtering.
Homer Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
Does this still need a vote on the floor? Or Judiciary Committee alone is enough?

How it gets passed is usually stealthy. It might get bundled with something else and be call something on the order of a consolidated omnibus budget act. There will be enough pork in the bill so that the every politician has some must have legislation included. So I don't think even the committee absolutely ever has to vote on the bill by itself.

Arlen Spector and James Sensenbrenner are key players.
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
[QB]It is slave labor only insomuch as the H1-B wants to stay in the US. At any time s/he can decide to return to India.


Considering that 50% of non-immigrant workers are from First World countries, I don't see where India comes into the picture.

Cheers!

Luke
N Kriplani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2005
Posts: 39
Long road ahead...

The next step is that this has to go thru the Senate. If it passes, then it has to go thru the House. This is where the legislation is likely to get diluted. Happened last year and is likely to happen again. Politics is all about compromise. And if it does get thru the House in it's current form - which IMHO is unlikely - then it has to go to the President to be signed into law.

What is sad if it does get diluted is that there are relief provisions for _legal_ immigrants in it. And on the other hand there are upcoming bills that make it easier for _illegal_ immigrants to eventually get their GC's. This is sad but true. Current trends show that legal immigration is getting harder. It doesn't matter which country you are from unless you are from India or China in which case it is even harder.
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

I want people to come here and try for greencards. I also don't want just anyone to get it. I want the US to get the best and the brightest. I don't want it to be a trivial process.

--Mark


Except that the chances of one getting a GC is not based on whether they are the best and brightest. How I wish it were that way

But now, it is merely the roll of dice. Well deserving people (me ) have been waiting with a backlogged status for more than two years now!!
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
Originally posted by kayal cox:


Except that the chances of one getting a GC is not based on whether they are the best and brightest. How I wish it were that way

But now, it is merely the roll of dice. Well deserving people (me ) have been waiting with a backlogged status for more than two years now!!


FYI,
even if you were a Nobel prize winner....you would still be relegated to retrogression....
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Originally posted by ab parashar:


FYI,
even if you were a Nobel prize winner....you would still be relegated to retrogression....


If I were a Nobel prize winner, I wouldn't have to come in through a H1 at all
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by ab parashar:
even if you were a Nobel prize winner....you would still be relegated to retrogression....


Only if you were from India or China. There is no EB1 or EB2 retrogression for people born anywhere else. And kayal, wether you enter on an H-1 (or an O-1) has nothing to do with it.

Cheers!

Luke
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Originally posted by Luke Kolin:

And kayal, wether you enter on an H-1 (or an O-1) has nothing to do with it.

Ah. I see.
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11523
    
100

Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
Sure one can if you did not sign a lease for lodging, sign a note for a car, start an MS degree or try to live the American Dream.

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Again, no one held a gun to their held and force them to sign a lease. They leases will expire and attending school is not a life or death requirement.


Speaking from the other side of the fence, I am an Australian, and I have worked in Holland for 2 years, England for 1 year, China for a year, and I am about to come and work in America for ? years. In all cases, I need a visa which is dependant on the company I work for. So in deciding on whether to work overseas, I have had to consider up the costs of moving, the costs of getting myself back again afterwards, and the additional expenses (such as incomplete leases) that might occur if I leave early.

When I do get to America, I will look at what I need to purchase, and I will ensure that I do not sign up for anything beyond the 3 year initial H1B visa (yes, it can be extended 2 years, and then an extra year - but my understanding is that the company has to apply for that, so it is not automatic). If my (non-existant ) SO or dependants wanted to study, then I would try to find an accredited course that corresponds with the same course back here in Australia - that is, if I had to come back to Australia at the end of 3 years, I would want them doing a course where the study completed would be accredited to a similar course here in Australia.

If you don't consider these things up front, then you are not really planning your future. And I think it is unfair to complain to the government if you don't plan your own future - why should any government be forced to take care of me just because I didn't think about things up front.

This is even more applicable in the IT industry, where we are all supposed to be intelligent professionals, and presumably have at least partial access to the internet. So we should be able to research things up front, and determine what things we need to ask about up front.

Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
IMO, you are trolling Mark. I'd love a sheriff's opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Call the law.

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
If you have an issue with my postings, feel free to complain to any and all of the sheriffs; you can find htem here.


IMO it was not trolling - just a statement of Mark's views. Discusion of visas and residence permits (GC) is a very contentious topic in any country. It is only natural that you can find different views on them, and it is very easy to take offence at something that was not intended to be offensive.

Regards, Andrew


The Sun Certified Java Developer Exam with J2SE 5: paper version from Amazon, PDF from Apress, Online reference: Books 24x7 Personal blog
Tim Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 37
Andrew,

It is good to know there is an Aussie here. I posted a question a while a go but no one seems to have answered. Do you know when the H1B visa expires and the worker leaves US for good with no intention of coming back, can she/he claims the money that has been contributed to superannuation fund. I know I can do it in Australia, how about in the US. Please dont tell me that there is no such thing as super fund there

Thanks Tim
Jim Baker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 177
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:

How it gets passed is usually stealthy. It might get bundled with something else and be call something on the order of a consolidated omnibus budget act. There will be enough pork in the bill so that the every politician has some must have legislation included. So I don't think even the committee absolutely ever has to vote on the bill by itself.

Arlen Spector and James Sensenbrenner are key players.


Is it too late to call my Senators and Congressman on this...
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Do you know when the H1B visa expires and the worker leaves US for good with no intention of coming back, can she/he claims the money that has been contributed to superannuation fund. I know I can do it in Australia, how about in the US. Please dont tell me that there is no such thing as super fund there


If you're talking about Social Security contributions, then the answer is maybe and sort of. If your home country has a totalization treaty with the United States, contributions to SS may be claimed as contributions in your home country. The US and Canada have such a treaty, so I was eligible for SS benefits on retirement after only six years instead of ten, since I had worked in Canada for 4 years already.

Other nations, such as India, have no such treaty.

Keep in mind that SS is a giant Ponzi scheme and the concept of getting the money back imply that the money you have contributited is somehow yours. It is not - it was promptly spent to pay for current benefits and government borrowing. Right now it is in the central bank of some Asian nation.

Cheers!

Luke
Tim Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 37
Thanks Luke,

In Australia, the so called "super funds" is the retirement funds. Every employer has to contribute at least 9% of the employee's salary to one of those fund (which is managed and invested in a "safe" way by some goverment regulations). The employee does not have access to this money until they retire. However, if you are an overseas worker, and you decide to leave Australia permanently, then you are entitled to claim that money with you.

I think the US's SS is something different, which provides social benefits from the income tax that one pays. Is it the thing which pays monthly allowance for the unemployed, and housing supports and the like? In Australia, it is handled by a goverment agency which is called Centre Link.

Well, it seems there is no mandatory retiment fund in the states. One has to take care of oneself I guess .

Tim.
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11523
    
100

Hi Tim,

I may have a better answer in a day or two, but at the moment I am going to go with: I think so.

As Luke mentioned, it is necessary for the two countries to have reciprocal schemes going. As I understand it, Australia and America have reciprocal schemes for taxes and super.

Now - having gone throught this when leaving Holland and England, I can assure you that it is a paperwork nightmare. But eventually you should be able to get the money rolled back into one fund in a single country.

The American equivalent to Australian Superanuation is their 401(k) scheme (I believe). If you are about to start a 401(k) then it might be worth your while to talk to a few organizations about what they can do to help transfer your money back to Australia eventually.

Regards, Andrew
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
Though H1-B is not new, I am seeing it in a different light. Whenever US economy improves, US can tap into this H1 world talent pool to pull more and when it is not doing well, it can always shed its work force at will. It does'nt need to provide any health care benefits or unemployment benefits for these folks unlike US citizens. These folks will go home naturally when laid off particularly when there is no urgency in the state department to turn these folks quickly into permanent residents. Thats a unique advantage US has and tell me how many countries in the world can do this ? With Indian leaders failing to rise up to the occasion and provide adequate infrastructure, there will always be truck loads of talented and educated folks always waiting to board flights headed to US.

Some times you need 200K or 100K or some times you need only 60K, you can always tap into the world talent pool - particularly from India. All this you can do without spending a penny. Now that is a return without investment - without spending billions on educating local folks through expensive colleges and universities.


Ofcourse I am not saying this to put US in a bad light but appreciating the US business sense.

Hope I am clear now.
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
The American equivalent to Australian Superanuation is their 401(k) scheme (I believe). If you are about to start a 401(k) then it might be worth your while to talk to a few organizations about what they can do to help transfer your money back to Australia eventually.


I would suggest against this. Premature 401k withdrawals will be treated as regular income and taxed at the standard federal non-resident rate of 25% or 30%, plus a 10% penalty tax. Your home country may treat this as income and levy its own taxes (although you most likely can claim a credit against US taxes).

It's probably best to let the money grow tax-free in the US for many years until you retire. That will maximize your investments, as well as providing valuable diversification. I have kept all of my Canadian RRSPs and with the recent surge in oil prices and the Canadian dollar these have done very well, balancing out mediocre growth in my US equities.

Cheers!
Tim Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 37
Andrew and Luke, thanks for your answers.

I did a bit of research on 401(k) and found this site which is quite a good read

http://invest-faq.com/articles/ret-plan-401k.html

Yeah, I think my suspicion about mandatory retirement fund contribution seeems to be correct. Contribution to 401(k) funds is optional though it might be beneficial because the company will match your contribution (or part of it). Luke is right that the money is best left in the fund until you retire, or if you really need some money, you can take a loan from yourself (yes I am serious, read the above article) and then pay yourself back later with interests . Now I can appreciate why some of my friends spent 3,4 years doing an accounting degree .

Tim.
Jim Baker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 177
It is time to take action.

http://www.washtech.org/news/legislative/display.php?ID_Content=5017

Send a letter to Your Congressperson

Below is the sample letter:

Subject: Plan to Raise H-1b Cap by 30,000

Dear [decision maker name],

I strongly oppose the Senate Judiciary Committee's compromise proposal that would allow 30,000 additional H-1B visas each year. Instead, I urge you to support the current House Judiciary Committee's proposal, which would raise the L-1 visa fee to $1,500, but does not add any extra visas in either program. The increased fees would bring in more revenue, but would also more accurately reflect the cost to our society for supporting such programs.

It's well known by workers that the visa programs are awash with abuse by employers. They displace American workers, depress wages, and discourage young people from pursuing careers in the high-tech industry. It also puts foreign workers at risk and may further a "brain drain" in other countries. Most alarming, it encourages employers to use contingent staffing solutions, instead of creating jobs that support workers, their families, and their communities. This approach should only be used when it is essential, not as a permanent staffing strategy.

I urge you to consider the social costs of these visa programs and rein them in with increased costs, instead of expanding them with extra visas. As a high-tech worker, I am depending on you!

Sincerely,

[Your name]
[ November 01, 2005: Message edited by: Jim Baker ]
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Jim Baker:
It also puts foreign workers at risk and may further a "brain drain" in other countries.


Please do not patronize foreign workers like myself by claiming that rolling up the welcome mat is protecting us.

Cheers!

Luke
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Tim Cao:
I think the US's SS is something different, which provides social benefits from the income tax that one pays. Is it the thing which pays monthly allowance for the unemployed, and housing supports and the like? In Australia, it is handled by a goverment agency which is called Centre Link.


SS is money paid by both you and your employer. It goes into a "trust fund" which, at anytime after age 62 (but manadtor by age 72 or so) you can access. You then get an annuity based on your contirbutions, age, etc.

Luke is right that it is effectively running as a ponzi scheme since current money is used to pay out recipients, and initially people got more money than they paid in.

SS is *not* used for unemployment. That is unemployment tax (paid by your employer) and the benefits are state run.

--Mark
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
Heh, what about the "brain drain" here. US college students don't want to study any of the sciences anymore because no one sees a future in them. I wonder what we're going to do with the sudden influx of business-oriented degrees? I guess we'll have some really well educated waiters in the near future

Back in the bad ole days when I was at Citigroup, there were tons of projects on the drawing board, and I mean things they really wanted that were beyond "nice to have" applications. The problem was they didn't have enough people to work on all of their projects, off-shoring was not getting them the results they had hoped, and there was a hiring freeze on new tech workers.

I don't think there is any shortage of work for high tech workers, what I think is the problem is too many companies who are reluctant to high the IT professionals they really need and are simply making do. I think the original proposal of doubling the H1-B visas was a bit much, but I also think there is plenty of work for the 95,000 visas we are about to have.

Protectionism is not the answer. The answer is to get venture capitalists to quit sitting on their cash. Less of a problem than it was 2 years ago, but it still seems to be the case. Investment into technology seems to be a low priority. Get companies invested in technology again, get the venture capitalists to start funding promising new ideas, and there will be plenty of work for everyone.
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
Originally posted by Rob Aught:
Heh, what about the "brain drain" here. US college students don't want to study any of the sciences anymore because no one sees a future in them. I wonder what we're going to do with the sudden influx of business-oriented degrees? I guess we'll have some really well educated waiters in the near future

Back in the bad ole days when I was at Citigroup, there were tons of projects on the drawing board, and I mean things they really wanted that were beyond "nice to have" applications. The problem was they didn't have enough people to work on all of their projects, off-shoring was not getting them the results they had hoped, and there was a hiring freeze on new tech workers.

I don't think there is any shortage of work for high tech workers, what I think is the problem is too many companies who are reluctant to high the IT professionals they really need and are simply making do. I think the original proposal of doubling the H1-B visas was a bit much, but I also think there is plenty of work for the 95,000 visas we are about to have.

Protectionism is not the answer. The answer is to get venture capitalists to quit sitting on their cash. Less of a problem than it was 2 years ago, but it still seems to be the case. Investment into technology seems to be a low priority. Get companies invested in technology again, get the venture capitalists to start funding promising new ideas, and there will be plenty of work for everyone.




Good post Rob....couldn't agree more.
ab parashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 130
I think there are some people opposing bills without realizing the contents.There are two aspects.

1. Green card relief for people who are already in the US...legally and paying taxes.
2. Increasing the H1B numbers.

I can imagine #2 being related to job losses but not sure if #1 does it as people in #1 are already here,working and already waiting for their GC.
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Rob !

Heh, what about the "brain drain" here. US college students don't want to study any of the sciences anymore because no one sees a future in them. I wonder what we're going to do with the sudden influx of business-oriented degrees? I guess we'll have some really well educated waiters in the near future [B]


[B]Protectionism is not the answer. The answer is to get venture capitalists to quit sitting on their cash. Less of a problem than it was 2 years ago, but it still seems to be the case. Investment into technology seems to be a low priority. Get companies invested in technology again, get the venture capitalists to start funding promising new ideas, and there will be plenty of work for everyone.


I totally agree. The only real way for US of keeping its technological advance suppremacy is and has always been innovation. If US carries on avoiding funding innovation for some 10 years long (existing situation since 2002 so 3 years spent already), US soon won't be the technological leading nation. US is far too costly compared to India or China which can do now do as well in IT field and are skilled enough to produce any complex hardware. And if India or China start innovating in ideas and software they will do better than US does now, first because US doesn't innovate at all anyway and because as they are far more numerous their chances of successful new marketable solutions are much greater by the simple weight of over-number, the more people the more chances to have succesful ideas.
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
I don't know about being "too costly". I haven't seen money saved on an off-shoring project yet. I'd also disagree that there is no innovation going on, but it certainly is not happening on the scale that it should.

However, non-outsourcing companies are and are going to continue to form in India. American companies are basically funding their future competitors. Not very bright at all. Seems like it would be smarter to get their best and brightest over here and convince them to get green cards so they can work with and train our future best and brightest.

To be honest, I don't care about a brain drain in other countries. Anything that helps keep the US on top is good with me. But with our current lack of focus on computer sciences in college, we've got to get the help from somewhere. We may well see the visa quota continue to grow if the trend in American colleges does not reverse itself.
Elizabeth King
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2002
Posts: 191
I still see many new US CS/EE graduates could not find a job although the tech job market is better than three years ago...
[ November 02, 2005: Message edited by: Elizabeth King ]
 
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subject: Upping the H1-B Quota numbers