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Java Salary?

Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi All,
I would like to ask you all a question about java salary.
If there is a person who has those Sun Java certificates :
SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA and has 7 years experience working on both Client and Server sides (code and design) in Java.

How much salary he/she could be paid in his/her java job?
In those countries :
US = $xxx?
India = $xxx?
China = $xxx?
Singapo = $xxx?
Vietnam = $xxx?

Here is my guess:
US = $50.000/month.
Singapo = $30.000/month.
India = $20.000/month.
China = $18.000/month.
Vietnam = $6000/month.
is it right?

Any ideas and information on it?
Thanks,
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
I see the this "Top-paying companies" on fortune website.

Yahoo$117,245/year
Texas Instruments$111,752/year
Microsoft$107,300/year
Intel$101,816/year

so I have to update my guess as:
US = $25.000/month.
Singapo = $15.000/month.
India = $13.000/month.
China = $9.000/month.
Vietnam = $4000/month.

hope it reach the right price.
Thanks,
Long
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
Hi Long ng

Since I am from India...I can give you some facts about india...Your estimate is too high

In india it could be something around $2000-2300..that is it..It could be less than this..Very few companies will pay more than this...


Helping hands are much better than the praying lips
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Thanks Rambo Prasad for your information,

I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $10.000/month.
Singapo = $6500/month.
India = $4000/month.
China = $3000/month.
Vietnam = $2000/month.

hope it reach the right price.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Long
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
My view is china would rank above India in terms of Pay....
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Hi Long,

In the US someone with 7 years of experience can earn anywhere from $30,000/yr to $200,000/yr depending on education, experience, location, industry, and specific role. Typical salaries for US programers* with 7 years of experience are probably closer to $60,000/yr to $120,000/yr.

*In my expeirence many non-US developers have difference experience from US developers (in terms of corporate culture, assignments available to them, etc), and this gets reflected in pay.

--Mark
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Thanks Mark Herschberg,

More information:
His/her experience : 7 years working in Java.
His/her Java CERTIFICATES : SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD and SCEA. (SCDJWS & SCMAD will be gotten in next 9 months).
His/her position : Technical/Software Architect.
His/her degree : BA

I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month.
Singapo = $7000/month.
India = $4000/month.
China = $4000/month.
Vietnam = $2000/month.

hope it reach the right price.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Long
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
4000 in India??absoluletely not possible...So reduce your estimate by half...
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
Long ng,

May I know the reason behind colletcting this info..?
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi Rambo Prasad,
The reason is I may be that his/her and I would like to know the information about my salary in the near future,
and I could get a job in these countries in the near future also.

From your info,
I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month.
Singapo = $7000/month.
India = $2500/month.
China = $3000/month.
Vietnam = $1800/month.

hope it reaches the right price.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Long
Ramasubbhu Allur Kuppusamy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 120
Originally quoted by Long Ng :

From your info,
I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month.
Singapo = $7000/month.
India = $2500/month.
China = $3000/month.
Vietnam = $1800/month.


I agree with the above speculation, with respect to India. Thats the Standard. However it can exceed to 3500 $ too, in some cases.


Regards,<br />Ram.<br />SCJP 1.4
Mani vannan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 185
Hi long,

The profile you are taking for example differs from country to country. Here, in India, the growth rate in terms of salary and positions is very high in s/w filed than any others.

So, after 7 years, here so many people move from 'tech' positions to manageraial positions. Because, the managerial people are paid like anything. So, it depends on the person's willingness, whether to continue to grow as a techie or manager.

The salary also differs accordingly.


Manivannan
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi Mani vannan,

You're right.
In my planning, I will get all java certificates then take a look on .NET technology to understand the two main tools in the IT world. After that I will move to management field. MBA or PMP is my next certificate.

But your idea is too general, it's good if you could let us know more detail about the salary of Techical Arch and Project Manager.
I need the number.

Thanks,
Long
Mani vannan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 185
hi Long,
To be exact in number,($1500 to $2000)/month is normal. $2500/month is a good number.
Jay Shin
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: 169
Yahoo$117,245/year
Texas Instruments$111,752/year
Microsoft$107,300/year
Intel$101,816/year

so I have to update my guess as:
US = $25.000/month.



Not true.

If you come over to the U.S., you will be on H-1B and you will be "most likely" to come over as a consultant through a body shopper.

Your starting salary will be somewhere around $30,000 - $50,000.

Your 7 years of experiences are irrelavant because you have ZERO years of U.S. experience.
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi Jay Shin,

You're right.
This information is collected in 2005
Yahoo $117,245/year
Texas Instruments $111,752/year
Microsoft $107,300/year
Intel $101,816/year

With this note:
Average annual pay: yearly pay rate plus additional cash compensation for the
largest classification of salaried and hourly employees.
Revenues are for 2004 or latest fiscal year. All data based on U.S. employees.

So It means Microsoft could paids more or least,
and I guess salary for a TA or PM at Microsoft could be $200.000 - $400.000/year.

In general, there are a lots of situations for the salary paiding.
In this case, I would like to know the salary information for the native only.
These information is not only good for me but also good for those who wants to know it.

I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month plus/minus 10%.
Singapo = $6000/month plus/minus 10%.
India = $2500/month plus/minus 10%.
China = $2800/month plus/minus 10%.
Vietnam = $1600/month plus/minus 10%.

hope it reaches the right price.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Long

P/S: Is there any information for Singapore, China and Vietnam???
Peter Sin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 547
Originally posted by Long Ng:
[QB]
I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month plus/minus 10%.
Singapo = $6000/month plus/minus 10%.
India = $2500/month plus/minus 10%.
China = $2800/month plus/minus 10%.
Vietnam = $1600/month plus/minus 10%.



What are the currencies for comparison ? Are they expressed in US dollars or local currency ?

China US$2800 = around RMB21200
RMB21200 is too high, but RMB2800 is too small.

I don't know what the salary range is. It is unreasonable.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Long Ng:

So It means Microsoft could paids more or least,
and I guess salary for a TA or PM at Microsoft could be $200.000 - $400.000/year.

...

I have to update my guess, again as:
US = $15.000/month plus/minus 10%.
Singapo = $6000/month plus/minus 10%.
India = $2500/month plus/minus 10%.
China = $2800/month plus/minus 10%.
Vietnam = $1600/month plus/minus 10%.



Long, I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but your numbers are way off.

1) The data you are citing is average salary, not average salary for people with 7 years of experience.

2) $15,000/mo is the equivalent of $180,000/yr. This is way too high, as implied by my earlier comments.

3) I don't know why you think developers at Microsoft get $200,000-$400,000/yr but that is way too high.


--Mark
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi All,

I'm collecting salary for this person:
------------------
His/her experience : 7 years working in Java.
His/her Java CERTIFICATES : SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD and SCEA. (SCDJWS & SCMAD will be gotten in next 9 months).
His/her position : Technical/Software Architect or Project Manager.
His/her degree : BA
------------------

not for software developer or senior software developer or for the others,
so the salary looked higher. I think it's reasonable.

--------------------
What are the currencies for comparison ? Are they expressed in US dollars or local currency ?

China US$2800 = around RMB21200
RMB21200 is too high, but RMB2800 is too small.
--------------------
The currence is in US dollars.

I think there are less than 70 persons all over the world who could owns seven java certificates SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS & SCMAD. So higher salary for them is reasonable.

Any ideas?
Many Thanks,
Long
ak pillai
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Posts: 288
In Australia if you are a

permanent employee --> between A$80,000/year to A$120,000/year.
contractor --> between A$120,000/year to A$180,000/year plus.

on top of that, certification is favourable but does not determine your salary. What really matters is your level of skills in Java/j2EE and how well you perform in the technical tests and technical interviews, conducted by the interviewer.

I know a person in sydney who achieved the top salary bracket in contracting due to his ability to perform well in interviews with only 5 years of experience (he was a mechanical engineer prior to that) & no Java/J2EE certifications. Due fast paced emergence of newer technologies/frameworks, He took the punt of keeping his knowledge up to date rather than preparing for any certifications and it paid off for him.

I am not sure about other countries. I would say certifications are good but would not soley rely on that to progress in career. There are other attributes required like How well you do in your tech interview/tech test, coding skills, design skills, communication skills, interpersonal skills, your attitude towards work etc play a role.
[ March 06, 2006: Message edited by: ak pillai ]

java j2ee job interview questions with answers | Learn the core concepts and the key areas
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi ak pillai,

Your idea is very helpful and useful.
--------
I would say certifications are good but would not soley rely on that to progress in career. There are other attributes required like How well you do in your tech interview/tech test, coding skills, design skills, communication skills, interpersonal skills, your attitude towards work etc play a role.
-------

I agree totally with above idea.

I see this information
--------
What really matters is your level of skills in Java/j2EE and how well you perform in the technical tests and technical interviews, conducted by the interviewer.....
I know a person in sydney who achieved the top salary bracket in contracting due to his ability to perform well in interviews with only 5 years of experience (he was a mechanical engineer prior to that) & no Java/J2EE certifications.
--------

from this, I guess you don't know much about those java certificates: SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS & SCMAD.
or try to take one of them examination. When a person who could owns these seven java certificates, they shouldn't be interviewed any more in java job, who do it better than Sun Microsystem, the parent of java world. Of course, you could interview his/her about some frameworks (Strust, Spring...), some application servers (Websphere, WebLogic, ....) , some containers (Tomcat, Apache...)...that his/her had used before. And I sure that (99%, 1% for luckily man) when someone could get those seven java certificates, he/she has understood/expericenced in java so deeply. Don't worry any more about java/J2EE skill for those guys, just paid as much as possible for them.

Many Thanks,
Long
velan vel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 137
hai Long

May i Know how many certification you hava completed.

by

velanvel scjp 1.4
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi velanvel,
I will let you know later, not now.
How many certs which I own is not important, now, just focus on my salary information collecting, instead of my personal info.
In general, 5 certs and 7 in next 9 months.

Thanks,
Long

[ March 07, 2006: Message edited by: Long Ng ]
[ March 07, 2006: Message edited by: Long Ng ]
sanjay patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 10
Originally posted by Long Ng:
Hi Rambo Prasad,
The reason is I may be that his/her and I would like to know the information about my salary in the near future,
and I could get a job in these countries in the near future also.

Long


Hi,

If you are collecting this data for the future then there is a mismatch, as the salaries in discussion are the current salary, but you may reach there at the mentioned position after some XX years and at that time the salary would be different ( + / -).

It is similar to financial planning. If I want to purchase a bike after 5 years and the cost of the bike is 50,000, then I should plan for 50,000 + ((50,000 * 0.06) *5) which is 65,000 (where 6% is inflation)

Thanks
Sanjay
Peter Sin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 547
Originally posted by Long Ng:

I think there are less than 70 persons all over the world who could owns seven java certificates SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS & SCMAD. So higher salary for them is reasonable.


There are a lot of ranchers here owned these certificates, maybe not all but nearly all. Employer/interviewer said to me, they would employ a "right person" who has a lot of large project experience rather than a lot of "papers".

p.s. I have no biased view on these certificates. In fact, I think it is difficult to own them. Certificate is only one of factor in the employment process but not the most determinant one --> large projects experience.
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi sanjay patel,

------------
If you are collecting this data for the future then there is a mismatch, as the salaries in discussion are the current salary, but you may reach there at the mentioned position after some XX years and at that time the salary would be different ( + / -).
-----------
I have said that I'm not collecting salary information for my own, it's for those who wants to know it.
And at least I have some data to compare when I really get a job like that.

Hi Peter Sin,

------------
There are a lot of ranchers here owned these certificates, maybe not all but nearly all. Employer/interviewer said to me, they would employ a "right person" who has a lot of large project experience rather than a lot of "papers".
-----------
I agreed with you,
I have update his/her resume like that,
------------------
His/her experience : 7 years working in Java.
His/her Java CERTIFICATES : SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD and SCEA. (SCDJWS & SCMAD will be gotten in next 9 months).
His/her position : Technical/Software Architect or Project Manager.
His/her degree : BA
Projects worked on: Mary (200+ persons) from IBM based on J2EE, Peter (150+ persons) from Nortel based on J2EE, about 2 or 3 projects more like that.
------------------

And I have said that there were a lot situtions for payment, so please let us know the salary for his/her in general only.

Thanks,
Long
Leo Ho
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 31, 2005
Posts: 36
/* I think there are less than 70 persons all over the world who could owns seven java certificates SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS & SCMAD. So higher salary for them is reasonable. */
Strange, so you think that people are paid much more *just* because they have these certs? Although I know people who have these certs and are good, I also know many people who have these certs but are not good developers at all (given all the "braindump" stuffs out there).

If I'm an employer, I don't care much about certs ~ if you're good, prove it by doing it, not by showing me the papers that you somehow possess.

In case you ask me why I have taken some certs anyway: it is to satisfy the employers who can only assess my ability via the papers .

Peace!
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2581

Originally posted by BDory:

If I'm an employer, I don't care much about certs ~ if you're good, prove it by doing it, not by showing me the papers that you somehow possess.

In case you ask me why I have taken some certs anyway: it is to satisfy the employers who can only assess my ability via the papers .

Peace!


I second what he is saying. From this post it appears that the OP has rather "outsider" view of the whole scenario and not understanding inherent process of really having "7 years of experience" and related exposure. Just my thoughts...

- Manish
Anjali S Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 279
Originally posted by BDory:
/* I think there are less than 70 persons all over the world who could owns seven java certificates SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, SCDJWS & SCMAD. So higher salary for them is reasonable. */
Strange, so you think that people are paid much more *just* because they have these certs? Although I know people who have these certs and are good, I also know many people who have these certs but are not good developers at all (given all the "braindump" stuffs out there).

If I'm an employer, I don't care much about certs ~ if you're good, prove it by doing it, not by showing me the papers that you somehow possess.

In case you ask me why I have taken some certs anyway: it is to satisfy the employers who can only assess my ability via the papers .

Peace!


Will you hire someone just because he/she has BE or MCA or MS or whatever. That piece of paper thing is true for all degrees in the world not just certs.
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi,

Yes, I agree. Your ability is the most important, certs are good if you got them.

But I'm working in a company with these rules:
if you got SCJP you will be paid more 1% of your salary.
if you got SCJD you will be paid more 3% of your salary.
if you got SCWCD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCBCD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCDJWS you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCMAD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCEA you will be paid more 5% of your salary.

Total is 17% of salary more, you see, I have a reason, right.
My boss is a java guy and he undestands the value of those certs, I hope there are more.

OK, Ok... there were a lots of kind of payment.

So I feel very happy if you read my post then think that:
IF there is a person with these skills:
------------------
His/her experience : 7 years working in Java.
His/her Java CERTIFICATES : SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD and SCEA. (SCDJWS & SCMAD will be gotten in next 9 months).
His/her position : Technical/Software Architect or Project Manager.
His/her degree : BA
Projects worked on: Mary (200+ persons) from IBM based on J2EE, Peter (150+ persons) from Nortel based on J2EE, about 2 or 3 projects more like that.
------------------

I guess/think His/her salary may be :
------------------
US = $xxx/month +/- 10%.
Singapo = $xxx/month +/- 10%.
India = $xxx/month +/- 10%.
China = $xxx/month +/- 10%.
Vietnam = $xxx/month +/- 10%.
------------------

I need that xxx$ information please don't go too fast and too far.
Many Thanks,
Long
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
"BDory",

Please look carefully at official naming policy at Javaranch & reregister yourself with proper first & last name, with a space between them. While initials may be used for a first name, they cannot be used for last names. Please adhere to official naming policy & help maintain the decorum of the forum. The naming policy can be found at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp

--Mark
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Anjali S Sharma:


Will you hire someone just because he/she has BE or MCA or MS or whatever. That piece of paper thing is true for all degrees in the world not just certs.


Yes, I would. In fact it's the exception not the rule that I world ihre someone without a degree. Obviously I interview them, but they are very very very unlikely to get an interview without a degree. Likewise, people with degrees from brand name schools are more likely to get interviews from me.

You have to understand that a hiring manager can get scores of resumes a day. You can easily spend 15-20 minutes a day just looking at resumes, in additional to calls, interveriews, and hiring logistics, and then there's your actual work. The goal is to minimize your work, so you filter the candidates based on their resumes.

If I see someone with a cert, it means they invested a few hours memorizing book and took a test. If I see someone with a UC Berkeley degree, I know their admissions department already screened them to be above some minimum threshold and that they graduated tells me something as well. this is a much higher standard, one fewer people meet, than being able to pass a cert exam.



Originally posted by Long Ng:

Yes, I agree. Your ability is the most important, certs are good if you got them.

...

Total is 17% of salary more, you see, I have a reason, right.
My boss is a java guy and he undestands the value of those certs, I hope there are more.

...

I need that xxx$ information please don't go too fast and too far.
Many Thanks,
Long


I think your misinterpreting the incentive system. Yes, they provide more money (interestingly it's a percentage, not a flat rage), but programs like this are usually just to encourage you to continue your education. Certs simply allow it to work in an objectively measurable way. Also note that there is no direct evidence from what you wrote that someone with certs is more likely to get hired.

Plenty of us in the US understand the value of certs, you just don't like that we assign it a negligible value.

I think you will find that your company providing direct monetary value for a cert is a rarity.

--Mark
Anjali S Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 279
Originally posted by Long Ng:
Hi,

Yes, I agree. Your ability is the most important, certs are good if you got them.

But I'm working in a company with these rules:
if you got SCJP you will be paid more 1% of your salary.
if you got SCJD you will be paid more 3% of your salary.
if you got SCWCD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCBCD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCDJWS you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCMAD you will be paid more 2% of your salary.
if you got SCEA you will be paid more 5% of your salary.

Total is 17% of salary more, you see, I have a reason, right.
My boss is a java guy and he undestands the value of those certs, I hope there are more.

Long


cool...can you please tell which country are you in...
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Is the Singapore salary correct ? 6,000 USD = 9,600 sing Dollar. May be too much.


Groovy
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Long Ng ,
Why are collecting the data ? Is it for some news paper?
hasan khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Posts: 222

how much i should expect in india - mumbai.
i am SCJP & SCWCD and having 2 years of experience.


SCJP, SCWCD
Long Ng
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 28
Hi Pradip Bhat,
-----
Long Ng ,
Why are collecting the data ? Is it for some news paper?
-----
It's a duplicate question, please read above.
Anyway, I collect it for all who wants to know it.

Thanks,
Long
Rocco Feri
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 17, 2005
Posts: 25
The question is how much of this salary is net profit for the employee and how much taxes + insurance, in each country.
For example here in Greece a project manager with the above mentioned qualifications, is earning about 1700-2300 euro net/month.
 
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subject: Java Salary?