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Wipro fires employees for faking CVs

Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Today's news in Times of India about CV fakers:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1460129.cms

Hopefully this kind of activities bring more maturity to Indian Software Industry. All companies should do this kind of activities and should stop encouraging people jumping companies with fake experience for higher salaries.
I can say fake CVs are one of the reason for moving to higher salaries.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

KJ,

What are the things they could have possibly faked?


Groovy
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Pradip Bhat:
KJ,

What are the things they could have possibly faked?


You should ask what they can not fake , for fakers everything is possible to fake. Depends on the situation and requirement they are ready to fake from academic certificates to experience certificates, salary slips etc.,
[ March 22, 2006: Message edited by: KJ Reddy ]
Liyaquat Ali
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 156
No it must be something else or maybe these guyz faked a lot of things.

As far as I know all the big companies to background checks dont they? and anyone with the calibre to get into Wipro or Infosys would know that they do background checks and hence would not fake stuff that can be checked.

The link KJ sent was for the TOI front page story, there is another related story on the business pages, I think page 17.

It seems that in some cases there is a nexus between the recruiters and HR ppl of the some companies, I dont know how that works but thats what the news article says.

Were the people fired only Techies or HR ppl as well? Does anyone know anything? And what about the police complain? was it against the fired employees or against the recruiters?


Excuse me while I kiss the sky (Jimi Hendrix)
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Liyaquat Ali:

As far as I know all the big companies to background checks dont they? and anyone with the calibre to get into Wipro or Infosys would know that they do background checks and hence would not fake stuff that can be checked.

Most of the big companies are moving to background checks, but still there some big companies not yet started intiative.


And what about the police complain? was it against the fired employees or against the recruiters?

Case against consultancies who are giving fake certificates. There are few consultancies who will give experience certificates. They are just one room shop and tell that they are IT staffing and development company. They will give(sell) experience certificates and take care if there is any back ground check saying the person was worked with them. Police complain about this type of consultancies.
Liyaquat Ali
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 156
Hmmm very interesting, ppl have actually made a business out of supporting fakers.

I knew there was more to it then just some guyz being "creative" with their resumes.
udaya bhanu
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 12
this certainly is not a new phenomenon and not that it happens only in India. There are many cases of resume doctoring in US.

It is just a matter of convenience. When it suits the companies they recruit the same people with both arms wide open, and again when they feel like shedding some weight for one reason or the other, they just pick up some poor guys and sack them giving these excuses.

If you feel companies were not aware of these thing earlier, you are too naive.

And if we come down to discuss ethics, blah blah blah ... the world is/ was never a just place ... people create rules as and when it suits them ....
these very companies also many a times resort to unethical means to earn money ....
Arvind Kumar Patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 24
Lieing is normal in India, Intel recently sacked 500 Indians who faked their timesheets, using it as a second source of income.

This continues to damage the reputations of Indians abroad, which is why employers outside of the country disregard all experience in India, even if it is for a large internationally renowned employer.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg. Indian universities should offer a semester on ethics.
[ March 23, 2006: Message edited by: Arvind Kumar Patel ]
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Intel recently sacked 500 Indians who faked their timesheets



What time sheets are you talking about?
This continues to damage the reputations of Indians abroad,

:roll: reputation ?
[ March 23, 2006: Message edited by: Pradip Bhat ]
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Indian universities should offer a semester on ethics.

We have lot of courses about ethics from schools to universities but since corruption is widespred in India only a very few actually follow it.
Arvind Kumar Patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 24
It's actually good news for non-Indians worried about outsourcing, because employers who replace their workers and move to India will realise that there are lots of dishonest Indians who will do anything from filling fake expense forms to faking degrees and/or experience, and thus they will need to spend more money doing background checks during recruitment. This will make it less attractive to outsource, although countries such as Brazil or the Philipines could be used instead.

I remember another story last year of an Indian call centre selling the bank account details of foreigners to strangers.
[ March 23, 2006: Message edited by: Arvind Kumar Patel ]
udaya bhanu
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 12
Originally posted by Arvind Kumar Patel:
Lieing is normal in India, Intel recently sacked 500 Indians who faked their timesheets, using it as a second source of income.

This continues to damage the reputations of Indians abroad, which is why employers outside of the country disregard all experience in India, even if it is for a large internationally renowned employer.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg. Indian universities should offer a semester on ethics.

[ March 23, 2006: Message edited by: Arvind Kumar Patel ]



It�s not a question of India or pertaining to India only � its wrong to be judgmental �
Rather, I would say it�s more related to economics.
If you socio-economic background of criminals/ legal-offenders, you would see most often they come from lower strata of the society and economically downtrodden. If you expand the same and take a larger view � India is still poorer among the nations �..
But don�t forget that the scenario was different few centuries ago �
If you go back in history, when India was prosperous � you can see in the travelogues of foreign travelers, how highly they held the ethics of Indian people. It�s just a matter of time �

So, the point is, not to be judgmental or generalize.
udaya bhanu
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 12
Originally posted by Arvind Kumar Patel:
It's actually good news for non-Indians worried about outsourcing, because employers who replace their workers and move to India will realise that there are lots of dishonest Indians who will do anything from filling fake expense forms to faking degrees and/or experience, and thus they will need to spend more money doing background checks during recruitment.

actually no one is bothered as long as they get things done at a considerably lower rate. yes, verification is required when the person is supposed to handle sensitive information, but that is not the case most often.

This will make it less attractive to outsource, although countries such as Brazil or the Philipines could be used instead.

at this point of time no other country can match the service + skill set + no. of resources offered by India, not in the near future either.


I remember another story last year of an Indian call centre selling the bank account details of foreigners to strangers..

This economic fraud is not a phenomenon restricted to India alone. I would say the case you are talking is quite a new thing in India, than in the west,... so, that way the westerner should feel more safe.

[ March 23, 2006: Message edited by: Arvind Kumar Patel ][/QB]
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I haven't seen any reasoning to support your thoughts though.

Getting back to the original topic, hard as it may seem to the people losing their jobs, I see this as one of the required steps for improving the state of IT in India. Things are still in a bubble at the moment, but I fear for the state of the country if it bursts too suddenly. Someone made the point in another thread; patriotism is all well and good, but you need to view the state of the market with open eyes, and I don't believe the market is healthy
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
I agree with David. We should be in position to accept the fact that the Indian software industry need to improve in many areas. I could see one of the improvement as I mentioned in this thread.
M Movilogo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 63
Often these companies doctor their own employees CVs to make it acceptable to clients for onsite visit
Ramesh Choudhary
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 200
The other angle is the unholy collusion of HR heads with some dishonest head hunters. One such senior person(From a reputed company(Virtuasa)) was trapped by Hyderabad police.
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
While these stories may not reflect well on Indians, at least I can say that most of the ones I've actually worked with have been polite, professional, and hard-working.

In fact, what this sounds like is a lot like the dotcom days in the US when people were doctoring resumes to get into IT, and the IT market was hiring just about anyone. This is not the first thing that made me think of the dotcom boom though, which just makes it all the more concerning.

The biggest problem with Indians is that they are human.
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2581

Originally posted by Rob Aught:
While these stories may not reflect well on Indians, at least I can say that most of the ones I've actually worked with have been polite, professional, and hard-working.

In fact, what this sounds like is a lot like the dotcom days in the US when people were doctoring resumes to get into IT, and the IT market was hiring just about anyone. This is not the first thing that made me think of the dotcom boom though, which just makes it all the more concerning.


Exactly!!! It all is becoming very scray.....ever increasing salaries, extra luxury facilities (tickets to multiplexes, gym/club membership an dso on) all these things make one wonder what exactly is the future of this? where are we headed? My city is already witnessing attacks on S/W professionals...

The biggest problem with Indians is that they are human.


Not sure I understand this...

- Manish
Vasu Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 13, 2005
Posts: 32
Originally posted by M Movilogo:
Often these companies doctor their own employees CVs to make it acceptable to clients for onsite visit


I agree with you. After reading provided link, i am getting laugh.

Did these software companies (Indian) paying taxes correctly. Didn't they bribe to improve their business. Didn't HR people tell lies while getting project. Then whats the wrong in fake CV's.

Did you ever think about HR people (IT Company) telling lies to get projects. If the company did then it is fine, even we dont talk about it because we need a job. This is our mentality thats why our country is like that.




Not related to the subject, but:

I am really wondering why the indian government(s) offering lot of free lands and other stuff to these IT Indian companies. How many people are getting profit from it; are they ( Owners like Moorthy or Prem Ji) paying any thing to develop country. How many people are there in India without home and food.

This is the problem with our Indian mentality; thats why british people ruled us more than 200 years. Now the few Idiot business people are ruling us indirectly.

Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
Manish,

Just to clarify, I keep hearing about how dishonest, disloyal, lazy, and incompetent these Indians are. As I said, I hear about it, I don't really see it.

But it strikes me that many office workers have similar undesirable qualities. It's not Indians who are dishonest, disloyal, lazy, and incompetent, but people. Honestly, did anyone expect Indians to be somehow better behaved? I don't think they are any worse, I think they are just as bad.

Well, that's my theory anyway. I haven't actually worked with a single one that fit that description yet. Which is why I don't pay much attention to stories about Indian misbehavior.
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2581

Originally posted by Rob Aught:
Manish,

Just to clarify, I keep hearing about how dishonest, disloyal, lazy, and incompetent these Indians are. As I said, I hear about it, I don't really see it.

But it strikes me that many office workers have similar undesirable qualities. It's not Indians who are dishonest, disloyal, lazy, and incompetent, but people. Honestly, did anyone expect Indians to be somehow better behaved? I don't think they are any worse, I think they are just as bad.

Well, that's my theory anyway. I haven't actually worked with a single one that fit that description yet. Which is why I don't pay much attention to stories about Indian misbehavior.


Got it!! Thanks for clarifying!!

- Manish
Vasu Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 13, 2005
Posts: 32
Manish,

Are you an Indian?
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Rob Aught:
Manish,

Just to clarify, I keep hearing about how dishonest, disloyal, lazy, and incompetent these Indians are. As I said, I hear about it, I don't really see it.


Rob not all Indians are like that. Same time you can find same type of people with other countries too, I can with some humans May be Indians are getting more focused and making news because of outsourcing. But you do find good and bad every where in the world.
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2581

Originally posted by KJ Reddy:


Rob not all Indians are like that. Same time you can find same type of people with other countries too, I can with some humans May be Indians are getting more focused and making news because of outsourcing. But you do find good and bad every where in the world.


KJ, I think Rob already understands that. That's why he mentioned that his observations differ from perceptions propagated in media. I beleive he is saying 'Indians are as honest/dishonest as anyone else'

- Manish
Arjunkumar Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 986
:

I am really wondering why the indian government(s) offering lot of free lands and other stuff to these IT Indian companies. How many people are getting profit from it; are they ( Owners like Moorthy or Prem Ji) paying any thing to develop country. How many people are there in India without home and food.

Govt is not offering free land etc to anyone.Tax concession is a different thing.Bottom line is if you do some transactions that brings foreign currency to a country ,govt supports that and in turn you get some benifit.Did Wipro open some resturants/mall on subsidized land given by Govt?


Namma Suvarna Karnataka
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:


KJ, I think Rob already understands that. That's why he mentioned that his observations differ from perceptions propagated in media. I beleive he is saying 'Indians are as honest/dishonest as anyone else'

- Manish


Thanks Manish, for correcting me.
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
Sorry if I was being a bit obtuse in my replies. I was trying to illustrate, and perhaps poorly, that yes I hear these negative things all the time but I wanted to add that whole "and yet..." observation. I trust my personal observations, which have been generally positive, much more than heresay and second-hand accounts.

I'm not saying there is no misbehavior either, but I think many of the stories are thrown out there because there is a lot of sensitivity about Indians in the IT sector right now. I have a pretty healthy sense of paranoia myself, yet I am having a hard time logically coming to grips with "They're going to take all our jobs!!!" So I am finding myself having to take some of these negative accounts about Indians with a pretty healthy dose of salt.
Sameer Jamal
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Joined: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 1870
Not at all Rob, infact I liked your comment.
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Rob Aught:
Sorry if I was being a bit obtuse in my replies.


Not at all Rob. You are nice and appreciate you for expressing your feelings.
Rahul Yadav
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 3
Hii Guys,
I was just browsing net for this kind of information .And i landed on this Forum. Who else will understand this better then me.I Am a B.E Computer Sc. Graduate.After completing graduation,I have done C.C.N.A Certification and got job in a company . After some time i found that job is not satisfying so I left it.One of my frnd suggested me to do Software testing Course from a training Institute in Delhi as i was desperate to switch in Some software work . while doing this training , there was some serious problem ,due to which i could'nt continued my job search and left for my home.When i came back its almost 2 years passed and my experience was only 4 or 5 months in IT industry .i tried very hard to get a job with this genuine experience .i did not recieved calls from comapnies .Even if anybody calls ,they are more intersted in my career gap not in my skills .So i decided to fake my CV .After that i got plenty of calls & i landed up with a Cool job in a MNC with a fat pay package. Recently they fired me as they cross checked my exp.
so guys i m telling u all this coz sometimes circumstances lead to person to do such kind of things .Its not always Salary or other things are in picture.I am not justifying this thing.But U have to consider both side of picture.
Bo Yyempeti
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 111
Originally posted by Rahul:
Hii Guys,
I was just browsing net for this kind of information .And i landed on this Forum. Who else will understand this better then me.I Am a B.E Computer Sc. Graduate.After completing graduation,I have done C.C.N.A Certification and got job in a company . After some time i found that job is not satisfying so I left it.One of my frnd suggested me to do Software testing Course from a training Institute in Delhi as i was desperate to switch in Some software work . while doing this training , there was some serious problem ,due to which i could'nt continued my job search and left for my home.When i came back its almost 2 years passed and my experience was only 4 or 5 months in IT industry .i tried very hard to get a job with this genuine experience .i did not recieved calls from comapnies .Even if anybody calls ,they are more intersted in my career gap not in my skills .So i decided to fake my CV .After that i got plenty of calls & i landed up with a Cool job in a MNC with a fat pay package. Recently they fired me as they cross checked my exp.
so guys i m telling u all this coz sometimes circumstances lead to person to do such kind of things .Its not always Salary or other things are in picture.I am not justifying this thing.But U have to consider both side of picture.


What other side ? You lied, you got cought, you got penalised.
vipul patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Posts: 146
Guys,

what about the company's HR people and project managers telling lies to their employees? I remember a person in my previous company on a very senior position manipulated me when i tried to leave company. I resigned 3 times and on all occasions, he was telling me to send on site, get great projects and have client interaction. but in the end he gave me same stupid project to work on. in fact that was the software i designed from scrath and he managed to sell it to 3 major banks in india. so somehow he wanted me to stay for all of my life. so he manipulated and damaged one of my golden opporutnity in fortune 500 company. he had no right of doing this. it is totally unethical for him.

what about this?
Anjali S Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 279
Originally posted by dilip agheda:
Guys,

what about the company's HR people and project managers telling lies to their employees? I remember a person in my previous company on a very senior position manipulated me when i tried to leave company. I resigned 3 times and on all occasions, he was telling me to send on site, get great projects and have client interaction. but in the end he gave me same stupid project to work on. in fact that was the software i designed from scrath and he managed to sell it to 3 major banks in india. so somehow he wanted me to stay for all of my life. so he manipulated and damaged one of my golden opporutnity in fortune 500 company. he had no right of doing this. it is totally unethical for him.

what about this?


Are you working for HCL?
M Movilogo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 63
One should not assume that it happens in India only. It happens everywhere!
I interviewed many candidates (British) in UK.

I remember 3 of them each of whom claimed 5 years of experience in Unix, could not tell what the "ls" command is used for!
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by M Movilogo:

I remember 3 of them each of whom claimed 5 years of experience in Unix, could not tell what the "ls" command is used for!



[ April 21, 2006: Message edited by: KJ Reddy ]
kannan
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 2
Yes I agree there are fake CVs. But argument is different.

Some companies are firing people in the name fake certification if they don�t have any work for those people.
Whenever need they are haring without checking certification for their urgent project need.

My Question is why are not verifying strictly before issue the offer latter, I heard that companies sending people after 6 month even after 24 month.


I don�t know how many companies are giving correct information for former employees. If the concern person in HR dept left that company who will give ref about former employees.

It is company responsibility to verify the candidate before issuing the offer latter, they should not verify after join into the company.
Arjunkumar Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 986
This happens because working(offshore) model is made like that.Companies acquire the project work by claiming that they have many people on skillset X.When project is about to come,companies start hiring rapidly.Sometimes the need is urgent and companies overlook this factor of fake resumes.Manytimes it happens that companies reject genuine candidates as they r not wellprepared for interview and hire people who are wellprepared but not very good experience.
In India interviews are based on what interviewer knows and not on what candidate knows.If that matches,you are "In" else no.
Cost factor too plays an important role.For one person job,companies manytimes hire 3 people and even making profit.
Try to apply for job in Govt labs and see how much through checking is done.
Rahul Yadav
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 3
Originally posted by kannan:
Yes I agree there are fake CVs. But argument is different.

Some companies are firing people in the name fake certification if they don�t have any work for those people.
Whenever need they are haring without checking certification for their urgent project need.

My Question is why are not verifying strictly before issue the offer latter, I heard that companies sending people after 6 month even after 24 month.


I don�t know how many companies are giving correct information for former employees. If the concern person in HR dept left that company who will give ref about former employees.

It is company responsibility to verify the candidate before issuing the offer latter, they should not verify after join into the company.


I agree with u .In my case they fired me after 5 months of joining .And they have probation period of 3 months .After 3 months every employee is confirmed .During this 5 month tenture ,i got 2 appreciation letter from my project manager and onsite team despite this they fired me in Name of ethics and some ediot HR policies. i dont think i was not capable otherwise i would not be able to handle work . My TL told me in my last meeting with him , tht i m capable person and he advised me to get a exp. certificate from a company where anyone can cross verify .There r lot Institutes and companies who offer this kind of services . So my point is this ,if the person is capable and u have tested him for 4 or 5 months,u invested your resources in him ,now at time when he has just started giving ouput u fired him . i dont understand the logic . Evrebody is doing this i know many people who r still working with tht comapny with fake Exp. But they manage to cross verify their credentials . so anyone who is caught is the only culprit .
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
I agree with u .In my case they fired me after 5 months of joining .And they have probation period of 3 months .After 3 months every employee is confirmed .During this 5 month tenture ,i got 2 appreciation letter from my project manager and onsite team despite this they fired me in Name of ethics and some ediot HR policies. i dont think i was not capable otherwise i would not be able to handle work . My TL told me in my last meeting with him , tht i m capable person and he advised me to get a exp. certificate from a company where anyone can cross verify .There r lot Institutes and companies who offer this kind of services . So my point is this ,if the person is capable and u have tested him for 4 or 5 months,u invested your resources in him ,now at time when he has just started giving ouput u fired him . i dont understand the logic . Evrebody is doing this i know many people who r still working with tht comapny with fake Exp. But they manage to cross verify their credentials . so anyone who is caught is the only culprit .



Rahul,
Try to refrain from cheating,but if you have no other oprion and once you decide to cheat do it perfectly such that you dont get caught...
You just cant keep thinking about ethics and let your family starve....I know people who faked ,yet they have managed to escaped wipro's verification proces...

Try to look out for some other companies prefarably small ones and keep trying for some other companies...Dont get boged down,,,

Best of luck


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