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When will I be fired?

                              
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 4
Hi Guys,
I just finished my MS from US and am looking for job these days. My problem is that I have joined a desi consultancy. Now it has inflated my resume to like five years and wants me to join the job with that. But I am a fresher and don't know how in the hell it's gonna work out.My resume is all about J2EE and stuff. People say it just works out. I am not sure how it works.Can anybody tell me how soon am I gonna be fired
Khatmal
Sameer Jamal
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 1870
As soon as the employer know, I am really astonished to see what people do in desperation to get a job, If I were in your place I would have never permitted anyone to do such sort of manipualtion and Mr. khatmal please change your name according to Javaranch naming policy.
Pawan Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 30
such acts shud not be encouraged! and in future if nasscom starts blacklisting such employees, what are u gonna do... and u r gettin into j2ee.. and it is no abracadabra... it really takes years to master.. so better not do it.


Stop not till the goal is reached...
Pawan Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 30
and yes, you need to be hired to be fired
Zip Ped
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2005
Posts: 336
Well, I am not quite sure if you would get fired or not. I have met people with the same kind of experience and still managed to work it out. But at the same time I have met people who have got fired because their Employer faked up their resume.

Such employers are only concerned about from getting the referral money they get when thier client hires you. They will only help you clear the interview, but once you are hired you are on your own.

Imagine the situation you would be in if they hire you as a Senior developer or a team lead in a company. Do you have that kind of skills?

Sincere advice, please do not go for such companies and yes, most companies which fake your resume are desi companies or are managed by desis.
Ganpi Srinivasan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Posts: 160
plz do NOT fake your resume....most of the consulting companies in US run by Indians do this because they can get more money out of you - but you have to realize it is you who would be facing your clients day-in and day-out & live the lie everyday....if they find out u have faked then u might be having lotsa problems in referrals for future jobs (and remember - this is a small world in IT - someone wud know somebody in every damn company)...also u might have issued during retirement (not an issue right now but certainly one when u near it)...think abt these factors and come to a prudent decision....even now it is not too late...call them up and ask them to change ur resume to an original one...

Cheers and Gud luck!
Kuvempu Puttappa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 87
If you are so freightened then join some Indian company's operations like Infosys,Wipro,TCS.There should not be any problem.
Anand Prabhu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
Originally posted by Pawan Rao:
such acts shud not be encouraged! and in future if nasscom starts blacklisting such employees, what are u gonna do... and u r gettin into j2ee.. and it is no abracadabra... it really takes years to master.. so better not do it.


The person is in USA and the company that he is employed in is a US based company. NASSCOM has no influence or authority in such matters.
Anand Prabhu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
I understand your dilemma. I have interviewed many persons for a J2EE position last month in my company and sadly, 80%(yes, 80%) were dubious or forged. It was too clear during the interview to me that someone (mostly the recruiting company) had embellished the resume. Later on, I briefly analysed the resumes with a recruiter friend of mine and he stated that they broadly fit two categories these days for J2EE positions. Some come on dependent visas, take short J2EE courses and inflate experience. Others are the students->Opt or H1 visa holders desperate to maintain status. Honestly, you need to consider other options. There are companies hiring freshers though few. That would be the best route. With no experience, you will have a tough time at the client who will assume that you have good experience and may not give you detailed instructions. Also, you run the risk of being found out. But again, I have seen many people with inflated resumes and they seem to be surviving.
Amit Saini
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 280
This has become a common practice in USA if you approach recruiters/placement companies.

The clients where you get placed are aware of it too - they're not dumb. The bottomline is that the client is getting the job done for a lower rate, the consultant makes good money and so does the candidate. It's a win-win situation for everyone - and hence flourishing. At the end of the day, all that matters to the client is PROFIT and not your credentials. It's different when you're a full time employee though.

Think of it this way - if you can't perform for your client, they're going to throw you out and ask your company for another contractor. On the other hand, if you do well, meet your deadlines - they're not going to care about your resume after you clear the interview - simply because you're not a full time employee for them! They don't have to do your benefits, medical, stock options - nothing at all.

There are hundreds of such contractors in top notch US companies - and you certainly won't be the last one in this game.

My advice is to take this up if it's your only option AND you're running out of F1 status and need a H1B. Else, continue hunting for regular full time jobs.

All the best!
Amit
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

The clients where you get placed are aware of it too - they're not dumb.

Thats true, anybody can find out whats different between between a fresher and a hardcore java developer with 5 years experience. But still this kind of things going on, because of everything mentioned in above post.
                              
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 4
Thankyou guys for the replies. It seems I don't have much optioms left. 80% of my batch mates are doing the same thing.Thanks alot.regards,
Khatmal
Pawan Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 30
The person is in USA and the company that he is employed in is a US based company. NASSCOM has no influence or authority in such matters.

Thanks Anand for pointing out. I assumed (s)he has returned to India after MS, like a couple of friends of mine.
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
I'm a little curious here.

I see you guys openly discussing lying about resumes and basically exploiting the system. Not one of you has an American name. Aren't you the least bit concerned about how this reflect on your fellow Indians? Especially those that have been honest and make it to the US anyway?

I deal with a lot of resentment and acrimony from my fellow Americans towards my Indian co-workers, almost daily. It bothers me because the Indians I work with ARE the real deal and they have NOT lied about their qualifications. They are good, honest, hard-working people. Yet because of things like what you are discussing, they have a shadow cast over them.

I do not believe "All the top companies know this". If my company found out someone did this they would be fired in a heartbeat. Even if it was not the individuals fault but rather the people that represented them. We sponsor quite a few H1B visas each year for people who come from all over the world, not just India. We don't have to settle, and with so much competition to come into the country, what makes you think any company has to settle?

What you are doing by lying is putting your own neck on the chopping block. If you are found out, and chances are good that you will be, it will haunt you for the rest of your professional life. It will become something you will have to hide or cover-up from every future employer you ever have.

So I guess what you have to ask yourself is what's important? Doing what is easy, or doing what is right? What you choose to do will say much about your character.
adithya kallu
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 23
Hii,

i agree that openly discussing this issues definetely throws bad light on honest indians (remember there are many many indians),keeping aside the moral issues for a minute i dont understand the logic what some one wants to achieve asking publicly such questions, all you get is resentment of good people and a totally negative impression on the person
Zip Ped
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2005
Posts: 336
I have to disagree with you Aditya for I think it is better to discuss such things in the forum as that's what a forum is designed for. If he/she is not able to get some advice externally, which better place than the ranch to talk about it with so many experienced people who might offer valuable suggestions.

I am sorry Rob if you feel bad about it, but wouldn't you rather be aware of the situation than avoid discussing it. It might cast a shadow on your fellow employees but its not only you, but all of us who have to deal with it.

I believe the author of this topic is having a genuine problem and we should make him aware of the wrong practices and help him decide on whats right and whats wrong.
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
I agree with discussing right and wrong, but it seems to me that the general sentiment being expressed is "Everyone is doing it, so why not you?"

I face a seven month stint of unemployment about three years ago. That experience has been a life-changing event for me. One of the things I would not do though is lie on my resume. I was consistently encouraged to do so because "Everyone is doing it, so why not you?".

I needed a job. We were faced with possibly losing everything we had. The cars, the house, our entire lives could be shattered if I did not find a job. By about the six month things were looking grim. We had exhausted our savings, we had to take money from my parents and their savings were being drained. Had it gone on much longer we would have faced some serious consequences.

But I did find a job and it did work out and things couldn't be better now. Three years later I am still recovering. There are debts to repay and savings to rebuild. It's not all wine and roses. Still, without compromising my integrity I now have nothing to hide. I never had to justify a skillset I didn't actually have. I don't have to worry about hiding things from my employers.

I do not believe you have to lie, cheat, and steal to accomplish your goals. A person who does that lacks integrity, and if I find out I will never trust them. Once you compromise your integrity, you will have to live with that hanging over your head until you are found out. It's amazing how much effort has to go into maintaining a lie. Not only that, but you'll have to maintain it in an environment where most of your co-workers are trained in logical analysis.

Discuss what is right and wrong, I don't mind that. But don't give advice that encourages someone to compromise what is right. Or at least don't do it publically. If nothing else, don't contribute to the negative stereotypes of Indians, because the good ones suffer enough already.
Arvind Kumar Patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 24
I completely agree with Rob. I find it very bitter to read about Indians getting jobs when they have openly lied about their credientials (they look at it as some kind of an achievement if they manage to fool an employer), while other people go to great lengths to get qualifications and experience, only to be denied the jobs they deserve.

This is why indian experience has very little, if any, weight in the west, because the sterotype is very true and peoples perception is based on that. The base premise is that "lots of people in India lie", thus it is best to put them at the end of the queue, unless one is prepared to go through an exhaustive background check.

The moderators have been very lenient here, sitting back while fellow ranchers encourage others to lie. I have seen it in countless threads, shaken my head and then read the same thing again a few days later. The shock factor has chipped away, and now I am very suspicious when I read messages here from Indians when they write "... I have X years of experience in Y".

Sooner or later, someone will find out, and you not need to look over your shoulder anymore.
[ April 05, 2006: Message edited by: Arvind Kumar Patel ]
Ganpi Srinivasan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Posts: 160
Originally posted by Rob Aught:
I agree with discussing right and wrong, but it seems to me that the general sentiment being expressed is "Everyone is doing it, so why not you?"

I face a seven month stint of unemployment about three years ago. That experience has been a life-changing event for me. One of the things I would not do though is lie on my resume. I was consistently encouraged to do so because "Everyone is doing it, so why not you?".

I needed a job. We were faced with possibly losing everything we had. The cars, the house, our entire lives could be shattered if I did not find a job. By about the six month things were looking grim. We had exhausted our savings, we had to take money from my parents and their savings were being drained. Had it gone on much longer we would have faced some serious consequences.

But I did find a job and it did work out and things couldn't be better now. Three years later I am still recovering. There are debts to repay and savings to rebuild. It's not all wine and roses. Still, without compromising my integrity I now have nothing to hide. I never had to justify a skillset I didn't actually have. I don't have to worry about hiding things from my employers.

I do not believe you have to lie, cheat, and steal to accomplish your goals. A person who does that lacks integrity, and if I find out I will never trust them. Once you compromise your integrity, you will have to live with that hanging over your head until you are found out. It's amazing how much effort has to go into maintaining a lie. Not only that, but you'll have to maintain it in an environment where most of your co-workers are trained in logical analysis.

Discuss what is right and wrong, I don't mind that. But don't give advice that encourages someone to compromise what is right. Or at least don't do it publically. If nothing else, don't contribute to the negative stereotypes of Indians, because the good ones suffer enough already.



I totally agree with you Rob. In fact when one such sales guy from my previous consulting company persuaded me to change / fake my resume I told him a srtict NO. I was never that desperate to lie my way thru to get a job / neither am I right now and I would never ever do that. IMHO it all boils down to how much ethical, every person is (and I dont think nationality plays a part in it).
Shipra Verma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 116
you will be fired. the interviewer will know about it the moment he ask's you couple of questions . so don't lie .


<a href="http://itpaypacket.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://itpaypacket.blogspot.com/</a><br />Life is unpredictable: eat dessert first :-)
Arvind Kumar Patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2006
Posts: 24
Originally posted by Khatmal Khatmal:
Now it has inflated my resume to like five years and wants me to join the job with that.


Have you ever heard of "ethics"?
Edwin Dalorzo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 961
First than anything else, Khatmal. I think you have been pretty honest to talk about this subject here. I think this is the right place to do it.

I think people judging you because of this are commiting a mistake. If you cannot open up here, what's the point of the forum, then.

Now, Khatmal, comrade. If you do not know already, inflating your resume is not exactly a very ethical deed and if you hold your professionalism in great esteem you should not do that, no matter that other are doing it.

The truth is that most probably you will no be fired, for a very simple reason, you will not even be hired if your interviewer knows a bit about J2EE. Come on, buddy! If you do not know enough, why would you get into all the trouble? how would you explain to your boss that you can't do the job?

Look, I have been a developer the past 7 years here in Costa Rica. A year ago I fed up of Microsoft and decided to change to Java. I faced the language for the first time like a year ago. Listen, I really worked hard, staying late at night, waking up early in the mornings, I got certified, and then I got my first job, six months ago. Surprisingly I got hired after I said my employeer I was just a junior developer when it comes to Java. Recently I got another job for a bigger company, I am using all that I have learned while working for the SCJD certification. And I never lied in my resume. They knew before hiring me what my skills and my weaknesses were. I am growing in my technical skills day after day. The jobs came as a result of it.

What I mean is that if you want to be J2EE developer, so be it. Work hard on it, after a few months of hard work, you may get that job. But not this way, there are other guys who've been working hard on it who deserve it.

My advise is, telling the truth (with intelligence, with the right words) will always produce better results than lying and you will hold your professional integrity tough for many it may sound too romantic for the real life.

Good luck, pal, and success!
[ April 08, 2006: Message edited by: Edwin Dalorzo ]
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 366
It is funny since at this moment I am actually déflating my CV.

I am looking for a new job, but I don't want to take risk. My present employer is moderately dissatisfied with me. I am surviving, but on the tip of my toes.

I had a situation that I did not really lied on my CV, but there was one thing on there that was very demanded in a company. I had experience with it, but only limited. The recruiter was annoying and I think he even pressured the manager that hired me, and told him: take that guy quickly, because otherwise there are more companies interested in him. Which was the case.

So if you are in a luxury position, if you have reputation to lose, don't inflate your CV, it will only lead to trouble. If you are in need however, well, and you have less to lose? I recently read the CV of my unemployed young daughter. She has no right to unemployment benefit, since she is too young, and she made one week experience, to one year. At least as such it appears on paper.

Then life and maybe even capitalism itself are totally unfair, and unethical anyway, so, I cannot blame people here. Be aware you are taking a big risk though. I am not going to do it.
 
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