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Be carefuly about H1 bodyshoppers

Manoj Kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 11
Gays be carefuly about this bodyshopper don't leave job, don't trust them.
This people are very cleaverly cheating people, they are no 1 cheaters in the world.They hunting people from Infosys, tcs,wipro,satyam,HCL....bec. those people can easily pay 1lacks.50k.I think all bodyshoppers should be banned.already shortage in india market..
I don't why they are 1 lacks Bond for 2 years. this is very very bad.. we have to send mails for INS...NASCOM,CII..they should be ban immediately.
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
they are operating illegally under US law, or most of them are.
Problem is catching them, as most of their victims inside the US would face extradiction when they come forward.
And in India I doubt their business methods are illegal, or action would almost certainly have been taken against them by legitimate firms already precisely because they eat into the available labourpool.


42
Liyaquat Ali
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 156
Question of legality of BodyShoppers.

IT people in the US think that what body shoppers are doing is completely legal in India. Well, BodyShopping business model is illegal in the US but they still manage to get the H1B visas for there candidates.

Basically H1B is for highly skilled professionals which are not available locally, hence the need to hire from elsewhere, but BodyShoppers hire the employees first and get an H1B and once these employees are in the US, they are sent for interviews with the client and hopefully they might get selected and start work on a project, this entire activity is illegal in the US, and is done in the US, and still there is no action taken. The reason is because these guyz know how to play the system, and thats exactly what they do.

Its not a question of the activity being illegal in US and legal in India.
If one says that the activity is legal in India it implies that the government and the people of India are willingly working towards taking jobs away from capabale Americans.

I cant say anything about the Government of India, most of the time its too occupied with doing useless things for useless issues. The IT industry in India has been created and is being managed completely by private companies and there initiatives. If the Government was incharge of the IT industry, then there wouldn't have been an IT industry to speak of.
[ April 25, 2006: Message edited by: Liyaquat Ali ]

Excuse me while I kiss the sky (Jimi Hendrix)
M Movilogo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 63
I don't see how it can be illegal.

All major Indian IT giants (TCS/Wipro/Infosys/Satya/HCL etc.) exactly do the same trick.

Employees don't speak out as they are earning $ - more than what they can earn in India anyway.
Shipra Verma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 116
Last year wipro did the same thing with freshers . They asked 75,000 Rs as security from freshers for a period of one year . Which is fine as it's hard to retain Engineers in current markets . From one standpoint h1b employers also do the same thing which is fine as they spend upto 4-5K USD to get the person to US legally .


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Arjunkumar Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 986
Originally posted by Jeroen T Wenting:
they are operating illegally under US law, or most of them are.
Problem is catching them, as most of their victims inside the US would face extradiction when they come forward.

I doubt whether they operate illegally.They have offices in business disiricts and not on Mexico-US border.They publish the ads openly on popular job sites and not in community groups.They send the applications to attorneys majority of whom are Americans.How can these things illegal.

And in India I doubt their business methods are illegal, or action would almost certainly have been taken against them by legitimate firms already precisely because they eat into the available labourpool.

Govt. should take action against those who are sending people outside who in turn will be responsible for increasing their country's cash and reducing the unemployment to some extent? :roll:


Namma Suvarna Karnataka
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
It's quite illegal because they're essentially comitting fraud (with the full knowledge of their lawyers).

As said, the H1 system is for skills not available locally. Programming skills ARE available locally, especially the junior skills displayed by many Indians sent over on H1 visas.
Then there's the contracts under which those Indians are employed in the US.
They should hold a contract with the company they're going to work at for the entire period of their visum, but they don't. They're given contracts with postoffice box frontends of Indian companies which are dependent on them having a position at a contractor for that front company.
That's illegal, but hard to prove as the Indians aren't complaining.
They should also be paid the same as their US counterparts, but aren't.
Here noone complains, because the Indian makes more than he would at home, his real employer gets a very nice markup, and the US customer gets cheap labour without having to pay for training the new employee.

The ones loosing out are US programmers who get replaced with cheap foreign labour, yet have no way to prove it which would stand up in a court of law because none of the witnesses will admit to it (and they couldn't afford the lawyers required anyway, being unemployed and needing every cent to pay the rent and feed their families).
The Indian employee has a (he thinks) very nice salary, and the threat of being thrown out of the country if he complains (if he even knows he's being illegally employed).
The Indian company makes a lot of money, and is the prime criminal party so they're not going to come forward.
The US company has cheap labour, and is an accomplice in a criminal enterprise.
Only the Indian programmer could be called as a witness for the prosecution, and he's too scared of his position (and his future career prospects in India if he becomes known there as a troublemaker) to talk.
Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209

I doubt whether they operate illegally.They have offices in business disiricts and not on Mexico-US border.They publish the ads openly on popular job sites and not in community groups.They send the applications to attorneys majority of whom are Americans.How can these things illegal.


+1. The visas are ultimately issued by the Govt. The bodyshops can't print one for themselves. I wonder how difficult it is for the govt to reject visa applications if local talent is available in plenty and therefore easily verifiable?. They don't and infact are looking to increasing the quota even further. What's the point calling the bodyshops illegal when the crux of the problem lies elsewhere within.
Shaan Shar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Posts: 1249

Gays be carefuly about this bodyshopper don't leave job, don't trust them


Please write Properly it's Guys not
"Gays"



Jay Ashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 208
Originally posted by Karthik Guru:
[qb]
I doubt whether they operate illegally.They have offices in business disiricts and not on Mexico-US border.They publish the ads openly on popular job sites and not in community groups.They send the applications to attorneys majority of whom are Americans.How can these things illegal.


+1. The visas are ultimately issued by the Govt. The bodyshops can't print one for themselves. I wonder how difficult it is for the govt to reject visa applications if local talent is available in plenty and therefore easily verifiable?. They don't and infact are looking to increasing the quota even further. What's the point calling the bodyshops illegal when the crux of the problem lies elsewhere within.[/QB]



Right on point. Your reply is short, but makes lot more sense


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Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
The company will have to provide paperwork proving they did try to get locals.
That's easy to produce, just file a job opening in aome obscure paper with totally unrealistic expectations (like 15 years of J2EE experience, 10 years system administration on Windows Server 2003, and expect to work for $2000 a month).

After that, the government agency responsible will not do their own background checks to make sure the local talent doesn't exist.
They're not going to check out all jobsites and unemployment agency files to find someone who might fit the job description and tell the company to hire that person instead.
Doing so would actually be illegal in itself and fruitless as the new hiree would just be fired as inadequate after a few days.
Liyaquat Ali
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 156
The company will have to provide paperwork proving they did try to get locals.
That's easy to produce, just file a job opening in aome obscure paper with totally unrealistic expectations (like 15 years of J2EE experience, 10 years system administration on Windows Server 2003, and expect to work for $2000 a month).


Yes thats the method most commonly used, if this one becomes too obvious they will come up with some other way of going around this criteria.

After that, the government agency responsible will not do their own background checks to make sure the local talent doesn't exist.
They're not going to check out all jobsites and unemployment agency files to find someone who might fit the job description and tell the company to hire that person instead.
Doing so would actually be illegal in itself and fruitless as the new hiree would just be fired as inadequate after a few days.


This is essentially the problem, but not the actual problem as it might seem. The government agencies cant possibly try and do checks on everything even if it were legal, they dont have that much time and resources, and if they still try to do even after somehow getting the resources it would take so much time that the IT Companies and the business lobbies would start complaining. U C if this has to stop then basically the H1B would have to be scrapped, along with it all possible ways of an alien to enter the US and work will have to be eliminated. And then what U will have is a closed economy, no such thing as a free market or free economy. Thats ofcourse what led to all this in the first place. When one person(Indian) can do the same work for one third of the price that an American charges then in a free market economy it makes sense to hire the Indian.
[ April 25, 2006: Message edited by: Liyaquat Ali ]
Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209
Am sure the h1b program has a minimum wage recommendation. It definitely has to be more than $2k? and 15 years j2ee experience , well not so difficult to reject the app with such requirements. If the govt thinks that h1b is severely affecting their own citizens, then it s'dn't be too difficult to have more laws and enforce more monitoring. I'm sure the govt has enough funding to monitor stuff that affect their own citizens , people who elected them in the first place , if they really cared about it i.e.
Arjunkumar Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 986
Originally posted by Manoj Kumar:
NASCOM,CII..they should be ban immediately.

They have the backing.Infy,TCS,Wipro have done this to some scale too in the past.Today also they do but with descency and not sending people in loads!
Instead if asking to ban bodyshops why not ask people to keep away from these shops?Are bodyshoppers dragging people to their offices and force people to sign the bond?Its a mutual agreement.If you don't give any certificates to them then you are not in trouble as these bonds etc is invalid in court.
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Karthik, the only requirement is that the foreigner earns a "similar" salary to a similarly qualified local in a similar position.
The way it works is that the Indian person gets hired by a fake company into a low paying position, then rented out for a profit to a real company where he does work that should pay more.

On paper he makes that "similar" salary, because on paper he has a different job from the one he's actually doing.
Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209
You are talking about getting someone with an experience of 15 years in j2ee from India. I hope you are following threads here that indicate that IT companies in India are throwing out people with fake experience.
If an American & Indian IT companies in India can do that over here, I'm sure so can the consulate. Now, don't tell me that Govt doesn't have dollars to spend on such trivial matters. The cost it takes to do the background check can be included in the visa applcn fee as well. The "illegal" companies operating out of the your country would have to bear the cost. If the consulate is even remotely suspicious about someone, they can reject the visa.
Anyways the question is do they really intend to ? from your post its quite clear they don't. Now I wonder why? Why does your Govt allows such "illegal' activities to go on under their nose? We can't barge into your company, can we? - we are India, 1000s of miles away.
 
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