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Will US Company managers do this?

R Vishnukumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 8
Hi All

What is the respect given by the US companies for the H1B workers.Will they treat H1B workers in good manner?

Will company managers give equal importance to their opinions also !!!
Sumit Chopra
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 176
Few of my colleagues worked in the US and now returned back to work from India. They say that there is some discrimination in some groups against the H1B holders.
Kuvempu Puttappa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 87
Originally posted by R Vishnukumar:

What is the respect given by the US companies for the H1B workers.Will they treat H1B workers in good manner?
Will company managers give equal importance to their opinions also !!!

Are you going there to earn money or respect?Respect will follow the money.

NJ Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 82
VIshnu Jee ,
In America as such no "respect" but you will get equality .
In general their is respect of being a human .
Secondly truth is that no body wants to hire H1 - B holders ,thats the
reason body shopping companies surviving in US.example if US corporates (MS,IBM ,CITI ,Merill,CSFB ,Verizon etc)starts hiring u directly will u entertaing wipro ,tcs ,pcs and xyz -tech ??? Definetly not .Only few major corporates hire direct or students from univ who are not US citizens .
Most of time it is lack of proper person in local market or cost effectiveness .But bottom line H1 holders are not first choice .most of times US citiziens dont want to work due to commute ,or unstablitity of company /project .Then Hiring managers look to wards contractors , and Desi consulting beats them in all respect like cost effctive ness ...tcs is working on $ 25 per hour for a Major financial corp .on site or offsite ,while in US a commercial truck driver gets @ 30 $ per hours so how can a US citizen who is educated and exp like a Desi consltant can work ?
secondly desi consulting keep moving persons from shore to shore .
so with contractors (H1-B) companies get flexibility with no responsibility .

US contractors (direct ) (GC or Citizen) earns good money .

At last but most important ur working depends on ur manager .
If he is American ( Born and brought up) then u will be ok , u r personal life gets respect .Other wise if he is migrated (as student or worker) then it may be worst then India.
Most dirty workinging with Arabs ,India and Chinese ,russian manager .

Many times H1B gets hired for speciifc knowledge and domain exp. if u work here for long time u gain good exp and u can compete with local talent .

**Ignore my typos ,spell ,i dont read second time***
Jay Shin
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: 169
[QB]
Will they treat H1B workers in good manner?
[QB]



No. Especially if the alien is from India, Pakistan, China, Philippines or Russia.

There are exceptions - H-1B workers with proven track records or immigrants from the Western Europe.
Patrick Williams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 213
It is my belief that all technology groups are wary of any individuals until they are a proven commodity regardless of origin or race. I can easily see how a visitor can come over on an H1B and feel this way, but I assure you that a native fresher can feel alienated as well. Non freshers get a workout to see if they stack up against their resume. I imagine that prejudice exists in some places, but I can also see how "normal treatment" could be mistaken for prejudice too.


Patrick<br /> <br />SCJP/SCWCD/SCBCD/SCDJWS/SCEA<br /> <br />Currently working on:<br />SCJP 6
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

Originally posted by NJ Joshi:
**Ignore my typos ,spell ,i dont read second time***


We're no so worried by typing mistakes as we are by abbreviations. If you want to make your posts easier to read, please stop using terms like u, ur, u r.

thanks,
Dave
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Respect has to be earned, just because you have a work permit doesn't mean you're due it.


42
vjy chin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 17, 2005
Posts: 279
I feel that the respect should not be earned.

First there should be minimum respect for another person. It can change accordingly later based on the work or anything, but first he must be given respect.

Atleast I would want my employer to treat me with dignity and respect. Then he can change his views or respect or whatever based on the work which I do. Also I feel professional respect should be different from personal respect.
NJ Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 82
Originally posted by Jeroen T Wenting:
Respect has to be earned, just because you have a work permit doesn't mean you're due it.


I am respectable by Birth .

Never tried to earn
[ June 23, 2006: Message edited by: NJ Joshi ]
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Originally posted by vjy chin:
I feel that the respect should not be earned.

First there should be minimum respect for another person. It can change accordingly later based on the work or anything, but first he must be given respect.

Atleast I would want my employer to treat me with dignity and respect. Then he can change his views or respect or whatever based on the work which I do. Also I feel professional respect should be different from personal respect.


Respect should still be earned. If you come in looking like a beggar pulled off the streets of Delhi and smelling like you've just spent a year trekking through the jungle without a shower you can't expect respect on any level for example.
You show disrespect for your hosts and boss, why should they respect you in turn?

Now that may be an extreme situation, but I've encountered enough situations where people thought they could do whatever they liked just because they were from a specific social group and everyone would just have to live with it and respect them for it.
For example homosexuals want to be respected as normal people, but some of them go about that by having sex in public (something that would get anyone else arrested here) or walking around in just pink underwear (which is definitely not normal). That kind of behaviour prevents them from being respected except in their own circles.

Yes, if you behave normally and passed the job interview you will get a modicum of respect based purely on that being the norm in society.
But noone will bow before you and tell you how great you are unless you actively prove yourself worthy, H1 holder or not.
H1 is no (even though it should be) mark of excellence (anymore), it's not the equivalent of having a dozen books on your name and several degrees from MIT.
arpit sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 41
hi
is it possible that one can first go through some consultant and from then on try to find a job and move from a consultant job to a direct job.i believe one is never hired for a US job directly.
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
US companies hire people all the time...
But remember that hiring a foreigner is a massive risk. The cost is very high, and a lot of them will want to go home after a while, leaving you with a big investment which you haven't recovered.
Then there's the major risk of that foreigner not having the expertise and experience they claim to have (far harder to judge a foreigner's resume, the univsersities and companies they claim to have worked for are unfamiliar to you and may not even exist or ever have existed).

So often companies will get someone on a contract with an outsourcing firm first for a while, effectively giving them an extended period to try out that unknown person before committing themselves to a permanent position.
Anand Prabhu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
Originally posted by arpit sharma:
hi
is it possible that one can first go through some consultant and from then on try to find a job and move from a consultant job to a direct job.i believe one is never hired for a US job directly.


Arpit,

You need to honestly assess your goals in life. If you cannot answer a simple question "what do I want to do in my career?" with some level of clarity, you are going to have difficulty. And if you intend to work in a foreign country, it is going to be much more difficult. From your post, I can only gather that you are looking for a permanent position in US. Have you studied the career path of many of the people who have ventured thus?
I will give you my observations. Quite a few people come through body-shoppers to US. Once they come here, they realise that they got a bad deal and switch to another Consulting(mostly another body shopper) firm as it is the belief of many that Indian Consulting firms are more sympathetic and helpful for processing Green Card applications. They struggle for a couple of years trying to maintain status of H1 and Green Card application. Upgrading skills takes a back seat(people study more for interviews). And if you see the immigration scenario in US, you will read that is taking forever to get a Green Card. So, people waste a lot of time worrying about GC and constantly browsing immigration sites for status updates. Since it is tough to get a spouse on GC, people get married when they reach the third stage of GC and when they estimate that they have around a year or two to get GC. But it may take a little longer as circumstances and laws change. By the time they get GC, many of them would have had a child and the entire priorities change and since they did not spend the core years here updating skills, they find it a bit tough to compete with the young workforce from India.

Note that I am giving you my observations of most of the H1B holders that I have worked with. You need to break this cycle if you wish to be more happy.
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42942
    
  68
Jeroen,

mentioning specific groups of people you seem to dislike, and attributing generalizations to them is not going to make you any friends here. If you can't come up with examples without denouncing large numbers of people, you should refrain from doing so at all here at JavaRanch. Our Be Nice rule means that everybody here is assumed to be perfect; if you're unwilling to accept that, find some other site to post on.
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

Jeroen please reaquaint yourself with the document about fallacies, it's not just for MD. Please try not to state opinion as fact.

thanks,
Dave.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61768
    
  67

homosexuals want to be respected as normal people


Homosexuals are normal people. I'm sure you meant to say something like "homosexuals would like the same respect accorded to their heterosexual counterparts".


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Tony Alicea
Desperado
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 3222
    
    5
Originally posted by Jeroen T Wenting:


Respect should still be earned. If you come in looking like a beggar pulled off the streets of Delhi and smelling like you've just spent a year trekking ...
...


Hey! stop talking about white New Yorkers!

When I was living there we didn't have the time to bathe because we were thinking on ways to SCREW everyone else!

Ha ha! Just Kiddin!
arpit sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 41
hi,
first jereon,
i just dont get ur answer does companies over there just hire people by their resumes and nothing else.i thought that good companies who are genually in need of a good employee would drill him for hours and would get every thing out of him - i was told that a good interviewer can get the truth out in hardly half an hour in india and i was expecting it to be faster in US.is it not or else ?? no seroiuslly i would like to know how are people recruited there.

and now anand,
i really appreciate your reply but i just want to ask you a question - how do you think a 21 year old lower middle class guy in the industry now for 12 days would think his carrer to go.the industry i am in right now is a big mnc and pays poorly , and then what , each year the salary increments by few thousands and nothing more .i have friends who wish a quiet an easy life but i am much more ambitious and a risk taker.all i need is a direction . i think any indian middle class guy can tell u 1 dollar = 43.52 rupees .that is a sort of scripture that people like me have byhearted now and this is what drives me .i dont have the money to go for ms or mba .i dont have connections either there-nobody ; so what do you think someone like me can do - i'll tell u take a risk and leave the rest to god.
what u said is true but get yourself in my boots and u will see a different picture.
Anand Prabhu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
Arpit,

It is tough for me to advise you individually. Everyone's circumstances vary and I can only give you inputs. You should gather them and decide on what is best for you.

21 is not a good age to come to US for work. This is the age to build yourself careerwise and not focus on money. If you have a strong foundation, then money will follow when you play your cards smart. If you wish to do MS/MBA in US, you do not have to cough up the money yourself right now. Many banks/institutions offer loans. You can avail of them if you feel the need to come to US to pursue further studies. Here, it is likely that you may work part-time work and/or get scholarship/assistantship and thus lessen your financial liabilities.

If you are 21, then you would not even have a years experience in your sleeve. It will be a Herculean task to get a work visa or even if you get one, it will be another Herculean task to get an assignment. Even if you come with a ton of certifications, most of the companies require at least 2-5 years experience here. I do not think companies will spend a lot of time in analysing your talent or potential. They may not even pick up your resume when they see that you do not have relevant experience and there are quite a few of resumes with the right experience or buzzwords.

The only advise I can give you is to have patience and build yourself on some core competencies. That is very important in this globalised world. Then opportunities will come by themselves. Yes, the dollar to Ruppee conversion may attract you but you need to understand that while in US, you earn and spend in dollars. And the living standards and expenses are very high. So unless you get a fat salary (unlikely right now as you do not have experience) and limited expenses, you will go paycheck to paycheck.
arpit sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 41
thats very nice of you anand.
actually thats an advice many people are giving me right now and going by all the suggestions i should stick around for 2 years and become extremely competent in some technology .i know this and have already taken the decision.
what i talked above is about the future. the question is whom to trust.i have cleared scjp and am already getting tons of consultanties asking me out for h1b and all that. i have no intention of doing it right now but also i heard that 2007 visa or whatever is booked .this is 2006 and i would like to move out in 2008 so when is the time to start the process and through whom ?? should i trust these people only or try and lookout for someone else .actually the absence of personal contacts are making things worse for me.
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
arpit, that largely depends on the company.
I've had "technical" interviews which were "performed" by people who didn't know the first thing about the technology they were supposed to be talking with me about. They just had a list of questions to ask and answers to expect and if the answers given didn't literally match those listed you failed the interview.
I've also experienced "technical" interviews that were more philosophical, talking about the why of things instead of the how. Those are the most valuable but generally unsuitable to juniors as they won't yet have the experience (except book knowledge) about the why of things in the real world.

When hiring foreigners, there is almost never time to do a complete long interview cycle.
Such a cycle here takes often 3 interviews each lasting several hours.
Doing so remotely is hardly an option, even if timezones weren't a problem it's just too costly to arrange.
So to hire someone you can't expect to drive over you almost have to go on what they write in their resumes and application letters alone, maybe with a short telephone interview. You might then bring them over for a last long talk if they're to be key figures in the organisation to be hired for a long term contract, but it's often cheaper to just let them be hired through some external consultancy who then takes responsibility for them if they don't fit in your team.
David C Mathew
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 28
mostly H1B candidates will barely speak in English, so if u are not talented u may not get proper respect
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

Originally posted by David C Mathew:
mostly H1B candidates will barely speak in English, so if u are not talented u may not get proper respect


This sounds like a generalisation.
NJ Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 82
Dear Arpit ,
I doubt about your age 21 , and asking for H1 .

Because if you are 21 and working then what is your basic education ?
You know it at age of 21- 22 only a average guy finishes his BE .
YOU NEED 4 year degree course for 16 year education requirment of h1 - B .
plus 2 year full time exp . OR Masters plus 1 year exp.
But if you are 21 years I dont think you are qualified in terms of degree or exp .
so do not worry about H1 .You have lot of time.

Best of Luck
arpit sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 41
hi NJ , well i am 21 , will turn 22 this oct and just completed my Btech this june .yeah you are right i have a lot of time but i am concerned as i dont have anyone personnally to guide me.
 
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