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Bill, from your experience

Jean Miles
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Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 53
What do you see as some common factors that contribute to Antipatterns in J2EE?
Bill Dudney
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Joined: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 234
Hi Jean,
Good question. One of the biggest contirbuting factors is lack of knowledge. Seems that dispite the vast quantity of infomation out there on how to write apps people don't have or don't take the time to read this info. Another major contributor is lack of expierence (which might be the same thing, but I think its slightly different). People that are new to J2EE often tend to misunderstand the complexit of the problem they are solving and thus dig them selves into a hole that is hard to get out of.
Other causes are being lazy. Which I am very guilty of all to often.
Sometime people don't know about a new gizmo in J2EE which leads them to build new stuff according to old patterns that are no longer advisable (esp with EJB 2.0 Local Interfaces).
Hope this helps!


TTFN,<br /> <br />-bd-<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471449156/qid=1064343733/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-8375300-3666449" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Jakarta Pitfalls</a> | <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471146153/qid=1064343733/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-8375300-3666449?v=glance&s=books" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">J2EE AntiPatterns</a> | <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471462071/qid=1064343733/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-8375300-3666449?v=glance&s=books" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mastering JavaServer Faces</a> | <a href="http://bill.dudney.net/roller/page/bill" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Blog</a> | <a href="http://www.jroller.com/page/BillDudney" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Eclipse Blog</a> | <a href="http://www.sourcebeat.com/TitleAction.do?id=2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Eclipse 3 Live</a>
Zkr Ryz
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Joined: Jan 04, 2001
Posts: 187
Hello Bill.
In a internet forum (I don't remember where) there was this discussion about J2EE vs. .NET, java supporters argued that MS programming languages were too "easy and small " that real programmers wouldn't have a chance to create killer apps and that they'll always be under what MS dictates reducing it's freedom. MS supporters said that J2EE was too complex that they even have to had patterns, guides, and a lot of knowledge before trying to build the simplest system.
With all of this in mind (that is what I remember and not necessary what was said) and now adding the antippatterns to the knowledge catalog someone has to have, how do you see J2EE and java in general as for 5 years now? Do you agree it is too complex? , Do you think it has an acceptable level of abstraction to allow anyone create any type of application/system? Looking through the failures of others, do you think would making the technology simpler decrease the errors most of us made while trying to get into the J2EE wheel? Or is this the normal process of adapting any new technology?
I have always program in Java, I'm 25 yrs old, so I can say that Java has been my "professional programming language" since I haven't tried any other to make a life (and I don't want to), so this kind of compression is almost impossible to me.
Best regards.
Zkr Ryz
P.S. I want to win a book!!!
Bill Dudney
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Joined: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 234
Thanks Zkr and best of luck on the book
As far as the complexity of J2EE vs .NET. Tools always help make things easier at the cost of some freedom. Developers in the .NET space are willing to give up the freedom for ease of development. Developers in the J2EE space do not seem willing to do the same. Take MDA as an example. MDA tools allow you to lay out an application graphically using UML then click the 'go' button and bang you have a whole J2EE app that follows all the 'best practices' and patterns. Take a look here at the vitrol spewed on MDA. Even if we had a tool that would simplify the world of J2EE many would not use it.
So, yes I think that J2EE is too complex but it is a far site simpler than CORBA was. Perhaps the Annotations will make things even simpler. I hope so because I'd really like to continue to do J2EE development for some time to come
Zkr Ryz
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Joined: Jan 04, 2001
Posts: 187
I couldn't agree more. Actually I have always refused use such tools to do my job, and this is mainly because sometimes when you don't have them (because you have to move into another location, or change CPU or whatever), you became useless, and can't do anything with out them. In the other hand mastering the basic tools (such as the java compiler for example) always keeps you sharp and ready in any situation. Plus many tools take years (well 40 sec. to 3-4 minutes) to start, while an editor like vi starts immediately.
Fortunately there are good tools that are making things simpler and yet let the power at your fingers and they're fast, Jakarta ant (Apache and I mean) http://ant.apache.org is a good example, an IDE that works for you and not the other way around is Intellij IDEA, http://www.intellij.com , with this IDE I've finally switch from using VI and GVIM.
Yet, I guess simplifying thing will help in the future, so Java projects can compete with MS projects in time, and budget.
Matt Holloway
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Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 53
In my experience, and it is limited in Java, I have found the M$ tools to be easier for client side development, but J2EE to be more robust for networked multi-tier applications. At work we are reviewing our use of Microsoft tools and evaluating replacing our 100+ VB applications with Java technologies.
Our options are to replace entirely, leave a mixed bag, or perhaps (this is my build) use a tool such as WebLogic for the business logic front-ended with VB.
Any ideas or thoughts on this sort of endeavor? I'm new(ish) to Java, hoping to certify this December.
P.S. I also would like to win the book.
Zkr Ryz
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 04, 2001
Posts: 187
Originally posted by Matt Holloway:
In my experience, and it is limited in Java, I have found the M$ tools to be easier for client side development, but J2EE to be more robust for networked multi-tier applications. At work we are reviewing our use of Microsoft tools and evaluating replacing our 100+ VB applications with Java technologies.
Our options are to replace entirely, leave a mixed bag, or perhaps (this is my build) use a tool such as WebLogic for the business logic front-ended with VB.
Any ideas or thoughts on this sort of endeavor? I'm new(ish) to Java, hoping to certify this December.
P.S. I also would like to win the book.

I've always developed server side java, servlets, jsp, and the like. Once I get into a swing project, and in my experience you have to be sure that someone in the development team fully understand how this technology works and know exactly which is the best way such application must be done, otherwise you'll loose precious hours in research.
An option may be leave the user interface in VB and communicate with the WL server using XML and wrap all the business rules in java beans or may be in EJB's, but separating the view from the business rules is crucial for this. MVC pattern looks like the choice.
 
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