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Sample Expenses in USA

Kalpana ragavan
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 1
Hai all

I got an offer in US (California)for 2500$ per month after deduction of all taxes.Will any one please tell me a rough estimate of the sample expenses in US.How much i can able to save from this salary.

One of my friend who got offer there for the same salary is saying that 1200$ more than enough if we cook ourself and share an appartment

He gave his estimate like this

House rent - 400$
Food and Grocery - 400$
Internet connection - 60$
Other Expenses - 350$

So according to his estimate he can able to manage aroung 1200$

How much this sample expenses seems practical?

By this estimate i can able to save 1300$ aprrox around 55000Rs.

Is it Possible?

Is this a good pay?

And suppose if i am sending that saved 55000 to india means How much actually reach my home ie after deducting

money transfer expenses etc..Any Idea?
Srinivasa Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 1228
In my experiance with 2500 USD you can manage to live a good life in US but you cant save more. You mentioned that food and grocery costs 400 USD but since you are working, you will not be able to cook daily, you might go to restaurants, You might go on an outing etc etc ..

Ps:- It's just my personal opinion.


Thanks & regards, Srini
MCP, SCJP-1.4, NCFM (Financial Markets), Oracle 9i - SQL ( 1Z0-007 ), ITIL Certified
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Kalpana !

I got an offer in US (California)for 2500$ per month after deduction of all taxes.Will any one please tell me a rough estimate of the sample expenses in US.How much i can able to save from this salary.

As far as I know labour taxes are 30% in USA on your salary, so for one year : (2,500 * 1,3 * 12) = 39000 US$ a year. California is one of most expensive USA places with New York, wages there are currently 80000 US$ a year because of life cost, so in very clear in my humble opinion you are paid half the wages you deserve.

I don't want to launch a troll, but considering such figures this is a totally indecent salary, you are completely exploited and your employer can't be anything that a dishonest bodyshopper. Such salary should even be much below legal prevailing wages considering the location, probably making your status illegal in USA whatever the visa.

If I were you I would refuse this offer, this looks clearly like blatant exploitation to me, but I would appreciate other Indian ranchers with an experience in USA to bring extra comments.

Best regards.


Eric LEMAITRE
CNAM IT Engineer, MS/CS (RHCE, RHCX, SCJA, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, Net+)
Free Online Tutorials: http://www.free-tutorials-online.net/
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

Bear in mind that the US has a progressive income tax - it starts at about 10% and rises to a high of 35%, iirc. (I'm not an accountant or a tax attorney, so my figure on the high end might be off.) Based on the salary you've quoted, I do not think you're in the 30% bracket, but more likely around the 16%. I make more than $2500 a month and I think I'm in the bracket just below the 30% one.

As Eric said, California's one of the more expensive places to live - I don't know how realistic $400 for rent is, unless you have a small place to live. Everything else in your budget seems mostly reasonable, at least to my eye, so you might bear that in mind.


Theodore Jonathan Casser
SCJP/SCSNI/SCBCD/SCWCD/SCDJWS/SCMAD/SCEA/MCTS/MCPD... and so many more letters than you can shake a stick at!
Jay Shin
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: 169
I do not think you're in the 30% bracket, but more likely around the 16%


If it's 16%, then his annual salary is (2500 * 1.16 * 12) = $34,800 per year.

Does your employer provide Health/Dental Insurance ??

If not, what are you going to do when you get sick ?? Return to India ??

If your employer does not provide Insurance and other benefits, then in terms of the real income, this is comparable to $20,000 - $30,000 jobs in other normal US corporations.

And if so, how did your H-1B petition get approved ??

Under the H-1B laws, the alien must be paid at the prevailing wage. Otherwise, you become an illegal alien.
pankil shah
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1
This pay is absolutely nothing.


dont multiply your earnings with 45 and think that you will save that much.

Arent you going to pay anthing for travelling , shopping, medical.

Atleast 4,500$/month makes it sensible to come onh1b.
mindwell just a company is offering you the pay and its feasible dont plan to come on h1b.
you may not be given visa if your company is a bogus bodyshopper.
Also if you dont have experience of more that 3.5-4 years ..it will take about 1-6 months for you to get job.

I dont know about your experience and techical abilities and communication power..but atleast dont get lured away with conversion of $*45 to india rupees.
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
Originally posted by Jay Shin:


If it's 16%, then his annual salary is (2500 * 1.16 * 12) = $34,800 per year.

Does your employer provide Health/Dental Insurance ??

If not, what are you going to do when you get sick ?? Return to India ??

If your employer does not provide Insurance and other benefits, then in terms of the real income, this is comparable to $20,000 - $30,000 jobs in other normal US corporations.

And if so, how did your H-1B petition get approved ??

Under the H-1B laws, the alien must be paid at the prevailing wage. Otherwise, you become an illegal alien.



Jay Shin, you are over using 'illegal alien' word and I am surprised no moderator has ever warned you.

And I don't need to say that we don't like this word so be nice.
Brian Mozhdehi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 81
I think I just am reiterating the consensus, but for the sake of being convincing....I agree that there is no way to make it in California on this salary, its very expensive to live there. No doubt this employer is unscrupulous and to Jay's point, however it was made (I make no judgement ) he would be at risk with regard to any H1 visa that was obtained to allow this job to be offered at that rate.

Keep looking my man, there are other and better opportunities for talented IT people.
Shiva Raja
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 5
Originally posted by rathi ji:



Jay Shin, you are over using 'illegal alien' word and I am surprised no moderator has ever warned you.

And I don't need to say that we don't like this word so be nice.


I dont think Jay Shin's statement is wrong....IT IS TRUE that illegal aliens are not paid the prevailing wage ($99000 in the state of california for a software engineer..check out the california labour website)....and ofcourse if the employer is not paying medical and dental insurance, it is not a good idea to go to the US.

And importantly ...$2500 is not sufficient in california.....ask someone who is with a consulting company and know the prevailing rate before going to the US..

good luck..

-Shiva
Jay Shin
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: 169


House rent - 400$



It will become more difficult for illegal aliens to rent an apartment.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5400392&ft=1&f=1001
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immig16aug16,1,5483446.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

For H-1B aliens, the only way to prove his/her maintenance of lawful status is by being paid at the wage specified in the LCA.
[ August 21, 2006: Message edited by: Jay Shin ]
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Jay !

For H-1B aliens, the only way to prove his/her maintenance of lawful status is by being paid at the wage specified in the LCA.

I don't want to deceive you, but this is a drop in the ocean.

Don't forget the issue is completely about legality, even if such exemple obviously looks like blatant exploitation because it is about half the standard salary for the area and doesn't even allow to live decently there, it may be perfectly legal : the job may ask skills below BS so legal prevailing wages may be of this order making it a foul but still legal job offer. Anyway any boddyshopper's attorney will demonstrate you easily that all its employees are paid fair wages, even when they are far below similar local wages for the skills for US natives (many polls conclude about 30% lower wages). In a mere 5 years in IT field 1 single New Jersey company in US was convinced for bodyshopping, with a fine certainly much lower than what it had gained in a foul way, so bodyshopping is simply not enforced in US (even if in this crucial election year crackdowns on illegals skyrocketed in a few weeks), period, so don't dream.

I stop there for Sheriff may not appreciate the political shift, although the issue is completely political : deciding what fair labour laws will be for aliens needed from abroad, then applying the laws. If laws are not applied or are baffled afterwards without any reaction, then all excesses are possible. We have the very same kind of issues in France so I perfectly understand what you feel like. I personnally chose to found my own company then emigrate abroad (not to USA, no sponsorship available for despite good I am not cheap). As this is crucial election year in US, you have other possible options, including founding your own party if you want, but as US citizen law appliance in US will always be your business, so don't complain but unite by many and act.

Best regards.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
"Shiva",

Welcome to JavaRanch. Please look carefully at the official naming policy at Javaranch & reregister yourself with a proper first & last name, with a space between them. Initials may be used for a first name, but not a last name. Please adhere to official naming policy & help maintain the decorum of the forum. The naming policy can be found at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp. You can change your name here.

--Mark
Maureen Augustus
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 72
I disagree that $2,500 net per month is an unreasonable wage, depending on experience. The State of California pays entry-level programmers approximately $3000 per month gross salary, which is approximately $2000 per month net.

Where is this company located? Many areas of the state, most notably the Silicon Valley/Bay Area and the Los Angeles area, have housing costs that are considerably higher than the state average. You may be able to find an apartment for $800/month total in an outlying area, but in the Silicon Valley, you should expect to pay $1200 - $1500/month for a similar apartment.


"Sex and drugs and women being set on fire! I've never heard of such a Christmas!" - Christine Baranski in "The Ref"
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Maureen !

I disagree that $2,500 net per month is an unreasonable wage, depending on experience. The State of California pays entry-level programmers approximately $3000 per month gross salary, which is approximately $2000 per month net.

Yes, you are totally right, but by definition this may not ever apply in this case.
Sponsorship through H1B is for really skilled people who are in shortage in US, so it doesn't apply to him for if he is an entry-level programmer he shouldn't ever have been sponsored for lack of skills. If he is a beginner he cannot be offered H1B for lack of skills and if he is not he is largely underpaid, I don't see how it is possible to see anything that a particulary indecent bodyshopper's practice here. He must be a typical seasoned IT professionnal at BS or MS level with about 3 years of paid experience, so blatlantly underpaid in this case.

Honestly this case is impossible to plead, it looks too much like blatant exploitation. Even if he wants to get to US at any price (half the salary here) for a chance to get permanent his chances remain tiny : only 20% of H1B Indians get permanent for they are in too great number compared to the 7% max cap per nationality imposed by immigration to respect diversity.

Best regards.
Maureen Augustus
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 72
I learned something new today.
Today is a success!

I still worry about the sort of housing he could afford on those wages, even with a roommate.
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Sponsorship through H1B is for really skilled people who are in shortage in US, so it doesn't apply to him for if he is an entry-level programmer he shouldn't ever have been sponsored for lack of skills.


Why do you keep repeating this? You know it isn't true.

The only requirement for an H-1B is that the alien be a professional in posession of a relevant bachelor's degree. There is no requirement for any experience, nor is there any labor market test required.

Clearly, if the State of California is paying only $36,000 for their programmers, then I suspect that the prevailing wage may be out of touch and that the true "prevailing wage" may be a lot lower.

Cheers!

Luke
[ August 21, 2006: Message edited by: Luke Kolin ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Jay,

I try not to get involved in debates of this nature, but the last few threads have been causing a stir. I am as concerned as you about illegal aliens. If you suspect that there is illicit activities going on, I would encourage you to contact the authorities. If you're unsure how to do this, let me know and I'll get you the contact info.

Other than that, I would kindly suggest you to tone it down a bit. If you suspect a candidate might be taken advantage of by an employer, politely mention that you do think the contract is consistent with US laws. (And again, I would encourage you to contact the authorities.) Do not start accusing the candidate of being an illegal alien; that really isn't consistent with the "Be Nice" rule. People come here with genuine questions, and if they are asking about something which might be illegal under some law in a foreign country, let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not actively seeking to break the law.

--Mark
Jay Ashar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 208
Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
If he is a beginner he cannot be offered H1B for lack of skills


really? does H1B laws say that, I ask because I was fresher when I was on H1B in 1998. I started with student visa in 1996 though. I thought you need to have bachelor's degree or equivalent to be on H1B.


SCJP 1.4<br />SCWCD 1.3
Amit Saini
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 280
H-1B classification applies to persons in a specialty occupation which requires the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge requiring completion of a specific course of higher education. This classification requires a labor attestation issued by the Secretary of Labor (65,000). This classification also applies to Government-to-Government research and development, or co-production projects administered by the Department of Defense (100);


(Source: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1271.html)

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
If he is a beginner he cannot be offered H1B for lack of skills


Incorrect.
The candidate could be a fresh-out-of-college grad with no experience and yet be classified as a valid H1 candidate. 'Highly specialized knowledge' is a subjective term. For the INS, in this case, higher education (BS/MS) contributes towards that. If it did not, foreign students would stop spending a ton of money to get US degrees.
Amit Saini
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 280
Sponsorship through H1B is for really skilled people who are in shortage in US, so it doesn't apply to him for if he is an entry-level programmer he shouldn't ever have been sponsored for lack of skills.


Eric,

From the definition of H1-B that I posted earlier, there seems to be no relation between a candidate's skillset and their ability to work on H1. All the law states is that H1 is for candidates with specialized knowledge which requires completion of a specific course of higher education. This is a subjective requirement and depending on how you present your case, a BS degree as well as MS degree could be counted towards it, even with little or no experience.

Now, coming to the remuneration aspect - I agree that is where the maximum exploitation occurs and it is wrong for the candidate as well as the employer to violate the law.
[ August 23, 2006: Message edited by: Amit Saini ]
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Jay !

really? does H1B laws say that, I ask because I was fresher when I was on H1B in 1998. I started with student visa in 1996 though. I thought you need to have bachelor's degree or equivalent to be on H1B.

The H1B program functionned "normally" up to about 2002, only since 2002 H1B program shifted to massively "importing" cheapest aliens from India and former eastern europe countries, as a US lawyer confirmed me (Larry J. Behar in Florida) some years ago.
So your example, dating from before 2002, is not relevant in this case. H1B application mode has dramaticaly changed in practice since 2002, in IT field at least.

Best regards.
NJ Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 82
My response to thread starter .
Don't go on this salary .
You asked about expenses ,many ranchers posted regular expenses , being new in US without credit history ,you have to pay many hidden prices that difficult to understand for you .
Your salary seems to be @ 42000 usd per annum in one of costly US state .
Do not go less then @ 55000 USD at least, higher is better .
David C Mathew
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 28
this salary is not sufficient to you.
do you have good tech profile and experience.
do you have any dependents in USA or single
are you having family

if you say yes to all questions then you
will suffer a lot.

beaware of it
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Amit !

The candidate could be a fresh-out-of-college grad with no experience and yet be classified as a valid H1 candidate. 'Highly specialized knowledge' is a subjective term.

You are perfectly right technicaly, but I was speaking about the spirit of the law as it was first designed.
As you pointed out, 'Highly specialized knowledge' is a very subjective term which simply doesn't mean anything, allowing practicaly anyone with any level to be brought to US under such term. This is open door for abuse, no wonder if in a mere 5 years 1 single Ney Jersey IT company was convinced of bodyshopping, of course there are much more than that.

For the INS, in this case, higher education (BS/MS) contributes towards that. If it did not, foreign students would stop spending a ton of money to get US degrees.

They already are stoping, at about 5% decrease a year considering recent figures from US universities, but as it is very recent (began in about 2004) it is too early to check whether it is durable trend.
No wonder anyway, since even if education quality is high for US universities their education for price ratio is poor since they are awfuly expensive. Indians already have some elite universities forming as good if not better Engineers than US ones, such as IIT, but at much lower price so with a much better education for price ratio, and local Indian Education quality is increasing fast. Chinese certainly are in the same situation, but as it is a strategical economic aspect they remain very discrete, but anyway like for Indians they are building many new universities a year, already have some excellent universities which can easily match US ones, and their Education quality is increasing very fast too, Chinese alone already produce 7 times more Engineers than US, and good ones.

What is more it is extremely easy for Indians and Chinese to know exactly how good US universities are, since half of students in US universities are asians. So it is really easy to offer as good education system but much cheaper in some top notch local universities afterwards.

Even in Europe, there is clearly a shift for fortunate students to abandon US universities to choose instead much cheaper but as good and much more strategical Indian and especialy Chinese ones with the clear objective to add Chinese language to their skills. From western europe side, China is the clear next economical superpower to come.

Best regards.
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Luke !

Why do you keep repeating this ? You know it isn't true.
The only requirement for an H-1B is that the alien be a professional in posession of a relevant bachelor's degree. There is no requirement for any experience, nor is there any labor market test required.
Clearly, if the State of California is paying only $36,000 for their programmers, then I suspect that the prevailing wage may be out of touch and that the true "prevailing wage" may be a lot lower.


I meant the spirit of the law as it was first designed, fetching abroad skilled profesionals only when local ones were not available.
In clear as you stated, as very low wages exist in all US states for official State civil services, and as there is no requirement for any concretely checkable skill, then anyone with any sufficent level may come to US even for infamous salary, providing he accepts it.
This is certainly very legal, but it is certainly very unfair too, espacialy for US freshers who simply stand no chance to get their first job if they are not from a presitgious university against an alien who will have anyway much more knowledge than them and will be much cheaper than them by a half.

In 2000 there were about 2,200,000 in US, today about 1,900,000 so considering there are about 100,000 new IT freshers a year it means US IT work force has decreased of ONE THIRD in a mere 5 years... And average hourly salary has droped from 100$/hour to 40$/hour for developers.
Of course this was still internet bubble area so had to decrease, but it doesn't stop decreasing at all since offshoring has taken the relay to decrease local US costs further. Don't forget that 50% of all local IT tasks can be offshored, offshore is already estimated at 20% in US () (much more for some editors), and is getting more and more mature so it should really reach 50% of all US IT activities within a few years at this rythm.
Don't forget too that since half of US univirsities IT students are asians it is extremely easy to import later aliens in uncaped numbers through L1 with local US subsidiaries who know perfectly well US system and can pilot the local project for their abroad mates with ease, still for much cheaper than an ordinary US native could claim but for still much more than their local alien salaries as detached staff abroad.

Of course all this remains perfectly legal, so considering your former statements shouldn't be an issue logicaly...

Best regards.
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
I meant the spirit of the law as it was first designed, fetching abroad skilled profesionals only when local ones were not available.


You keep talking about the "spirit of the law". Do you have the transcripts from the Congressional debates in 1990 that created the H-1B program? Do you know what the sense of Congress was in the 1990 INA? Until then, let's focus on the letter of the law instead of the spirit, which seems to be a fallback position when it's been proven that the letter of the law does not agree with you.

This is certainly very legal, but it is certainly very unfair too, espacialy for US freshers who simply stand no chance to get their first job if they are not from a presitgious university against an alien who will have anyway much more knowledge than them and will be much cheaper than them by a half.


I'm not sure what aspect of the system needs to be "fair". No one is entitled to a job simply based on nationality, or on quality for that matter. If large US employers believe that their interests are better served by hiring people with unverifiable credentials, then so be it. It's not up to us or the government to force them to hire the "right" people. I personally think that this strategy is going to have serious consequences down the road, but that's not to me to impose.

In 2000 there were about 2,200,000 in US, today about 1,900,000 so considering there are about 100,000 new IT freshers a year it means US IT work force has decreased of ONE THIRD in a mere 5 years... And average hourly salary has droped from 100$/hour to 40$/hour for developers.


You keep claiming that the sky has fallen in, yet the number of IT help wanted ads here in Atlanta is actually higher than it was in 2000. I am amazed that you believe that the average salary for developers across the United States was $200,000 per year - do you have a link? Every salary survey I've seen going back five years didn't even have IT managers and VPs with an average scale that high.

Don't forget that 50% of all local IT tasks can be offshored, offshore is already estimated at 20% in US (much more for some editors), and is getting more and more mature so it should really reach 50% of all US IT activities within a few years at this rythm.


As my stockbroker is so fond of telling me, past performance is no indicator of future results. There's probably been a fair bit of offshoring of low-value tasks, but everyone has been uniformly saying that if you deal directly with the client and need to, and work with a flexible project that is constantly changing, your job will be safe. We've seem the limits of even customer service offshoring, where organizations are forced to bring areas back to the US based on poor results. Same thing with development; some offshoring works, other doesn't.

The basic truth remains; if what you do can be done by rote and your sole competetive differentiator is price, you're toast. Yet one other truth is that in our line of work, the best programmers and designers can be an order of magnitude or more better than the average, and probably two orders better than the worst. I don't want to work for organizations that don't recognize this truth, and fortunately the ones that do are still numerous and will succeed over the long run.

Of course all this remains perfectly legal, so considering your former statements shouldn't be an issue logicaly...


I don't have an issue with it. I keep waiting for the sky to fall, and for the mediocre and unable to change, it has. If the sky ever falls, I'll look around for something else to do. However, based on the ever-increasing complexity of systems and the challenges required to develop effectively in them, I'm not worried that I'll be looking for something different in the near future.

Cheers!

Luke
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Luke !

You keep claiming that the sky has fallen in, yet the number of IT help wanted ads here in Atlanta is actually higher than it was in 2000.

But for which salary ? If they expect seasoned IT pros at 2/3 or half the usual local wages as any bodyshopper could easily provide if not stuck by H1B cap, such ads may be numerous and last long.

We have a very similar issue in France, and it must be the same worldwide : our consulting companies all cry for skills shortage, while in fact it is a shortage of seasoned IT pros at fresher wages, so no shortage at all. French government answer should be to let any skilled IT alien in, and consulting companies neat offshoring increase, so all IT wages will remain low.
What is more in France 3 ads out of 4 (when not duplicated ads by different HRs) are for turnover filling, only 1 ad out of 4 is about a real job creation. US situation should be very similar, so ads number doesn't prove anything any longer nowadays.

I don't want to work for organizations that don't recognize this truth, and fortunately the ones that do are still numerous and will succeed over the long run.

I agree that quality should prevail over cheapness, but how many companies care in proportion ? For by far the vast majority costs killing prevails quality. And if companies for which quality prevails become too scarce so you won't find any longer a job despite your qualities, what would you do ?

On the long run it is not the best who succeeds, it's the one who can endure the most. Microsoft had many better concurrents 10 years ago, they were not the best and still are not, but they succeeded anyway, whipping out many jobs by crushing concurrency. Nothing proves ethical organizations will succeed on the long run, if present financial system prevails they will surely not.

I am amazed that you believe that the average salary for developers across the United States was $200,000 per year - do you have a link? Every salary survey I've seen going back five years didn't even have IT managers and VPs with an average scale that high.

You are right, it was a typo I had noticed but forgot to fix as I translated from french. In fact it was a drop from 100,000 $ to 40,000 $ a year, not from 100 $ to 40 $ an hour. An amazing drop anyway, even considering the top reached at internet buble area.

I'm not sure what aspect of the system needs to be "fair". No one is entitled to a job simply based on nationality, or on quality for that matter. If large US employers believe that their interests are better served by hiring people with unverifiable credentials, then so be it. It's not up to us or the government to force them to hire the "right" people. I personally think that this strategy is going to have serious consequences down the road, but that's not to me to impose.

I completely agree about the probable not-happy ending. Even CIA's economical studies conclude that China will clearly be the next superpower instead of US within a few years (by 2030), but who cares ? Surely not US industry which still massively invests in China, US's most dangerous concurrent by far...

Best regards.
chee yung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 2
Whether the sky have fallen or not,
Nothing can be said is constant not even jobs.
i guess my answer for similiar kind of topic posted on this link at last may help some of the guys here.

http://www.coderanch.com/t/31224/Jobs/careers/java-job-market

cheers
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
But for which salary ? If they expect seasoned IT pros at 2/3 or half the usual local wages as any bodyshopper could easily provide if not stuck by H1B cap, such ads may be numerous and last long.


There are businesses here with real needs, and they cannot afford to wait six months for some desperate sucker to apply. The job market has segmented, and people are NOT willing to pay a mediocre person lots of money. They are prepared to pay for good people, who have years of experience (in the technology they want).

What is more in France 3 ads out of 4 (when not duplicated ads by different HRs) are for turnover filling, only 1 ad out of 4 is about a real job creation.


There are two issues I have with this statement. First, when I am looking for a job I do not care wether I am filling an existing position that has been opened up because the previous occupant left, or wether it's a truly "new" position. Why should I - to me it is a new job. You should also remember that many positions may never get advertised; a company has a need and hires based on a recommendation, and then the company that has "lost" an employee posts publicly. One ad, yet there are now two jobs.

For by far the vast majority costs killing prevails quality. And if companies for which quality prevails become too scarce so you won't find any longer a job despite your qualities, what would you do?


Then I adjust to reflect the reality on the ground. I have only a finite amount of time on this planet, and I cannot change reality. I can either accept it, or wage asymmetric warfare by starting my own company or switching fields. However, despite your pessimistic outlook, I do not forsee this ever happenning. Programming is NEVER going to be a pure commodity, any more so than writing.

You are right, it was a typo I had noticed but forgot to fix as I translated from french. In fact it was a drop from 100,000 $ to 40,000 $ a year, not from 100 $ to 40 $ an hour. An amazing drop anyway, even considering the top reached at internet buble area.


And utterly false. http://www.esj.com/enterprise/article.aspx?EditorialsID=1475 In some cases, developer salaries are higher today than they were in 2001.

I completely agree about the probable not-happy ending. Even CIA's economical studies conclude that China will clearly be the next superpower instead of US within a few years (by 2030), but who cares?


That ignores the upcoming demographic crash in China. What did I tell you about past performance and future results? According to everyone's predictions 20 years ago, we were all supposed to be owned by the Japanese by now.....

Cheers!

Luke
NJ Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 82
Originally posted by Amit Saini:


Incorrect.
The candidate could be a fresh-out-of-college grad with no experience and yet be classified as a valid H1 candidate. 'Highly specialized knowledge' is a subjective term. For the INS, in this case, higher education (BS/MS) contributes towards that. If it did not, foreign students would stop spending a ton of money to get US degrees.


INCORRECT !
Experience is must for applying H1 .
1.16 year education + 2 years (With Bachelor)
2.Masters +1 year exp
3. Foreign students get 1 year OPT with student visa (with masters ) that provides and qualify them for H1 . (Masters + 1 year opt exp)

In Dol approval/I 129 petition Employeer has to delcare he is not giving any "training" to candidate ,other wise USCIS going to reject as any US citizen can be trained .
[ August 31, 2006: Message edited by: NJ Joshi ]
Luke Kolin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 336
INCORRECT ! Experience is must for applying H1.


Wrong. The only requirement is the degree.

Luke
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi NJ Joshi !

INCORRECT !
Experience is must for applying H1.


Technicaly no for considering URL below neither degree nor experience are a requirement, but I like your definition. The principle of selecting the really skilled aliens lacking in US is what I call "spirit of law" because it is a win-win deal for both parties when it is fairly applied.
Sadly law is much more vague than that, allowing to recruit anyone within range from no experience but relevant diploma to no diploma at all but much experience to compensate, so in practice potentially 80% of all IT people worldwide. This is why nowadays, considering such vague definition, hiring an alien for US is not a matter of skills but simply a matter of having a good immigration lawyer :

H1B eligibility

In Dol approval/I 129 petition Employeer has to delcare he is not giving any "training" to candidate ,other wise USCIS going to reject as any US citizen can be trained .

I have huge doubts USCIS has any time to check anything in this matter, the huge priority issue which captures all their efforts is clearly illegal immigration, not enforcing the legal one. If they had any time left to enforce legal immigration, much more than 1 US based company would have been convinced of bodyshopping in 5 years. Even in France where market is much smaller than US we have about well known 50 of them, so in US them must be counted in hundreds.

Best regards.
Eric Lemaitre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Posts: 538

Hi Luke !

Wrong. The only requirement is the degree.

No, experience may compensate even a complete absence of degree : H1B eligibility.

Best regards.
 
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subject: Sample Expenses in USA