aspose file tools*
The moose likes Jobs Discussion and the fly likes Making Contacts Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Careers » Jobs Discussion
Bookmark "Making Contacts" Watch "Making Contacts" New topic
Author

Making Contacts

Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Hi All,

I was reading a thread in this forum regarding career guidance and someone brought up an interesting topic, "making contacts."

It applies very well to me in a sense, I have been trying to shift my job for more than 3 months now and I am not even getting called atleast once from any company for the matter. And one of the biggest drawbacks that I am having is the lack of right contacts. I don't know anyone who is in a position to refer me to a company. Well, I know my co-workers at my company but they are in a similar position too.

So, how can I grow my number of contacts? I am applying through Naukri.com and Monster.com but that's all, they won't reply back... I don't get a single chance from very good companies through these job sites, they are all companies of the same size as my current one. It's really frustrating in a way and to tell you people a fact, I have only attended 2 interviews in my life.

Can you ranchers give me some reference or point me to a direction to grow my contacts? And by the way I am from Hyderabad, India.

Thank you!
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

It's really frustrating in a way and to tell you people a fact, I have only attended 2 interviews in my life.


So what ? I have attended only one

Apart from using the job web sites i suggest you go through the papers to apply to the bigger companies. Send them your resume through e-mail and wait. Make your resume format original short and to the point. That way the employer can scan through it for quick pointers and give you a call. Be confident when they interview you and thats all that matters (apart from your skills of course ). It is also important to know your worth and market value. Voila ! you are hired !


SCJP 6 articles - SCJP 5/6 mock exams - More SCJP Mocks
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
When I think of "making contacts" I am usually thinking about my network of people. Something technologists tend to be bad at is developing a network of people they can call upon. For instance, how long would it take you to make a list of 3 references for a potential job. 5? How about 10? Most technologists I know would struggle finding three people they could use as professional references. I remember when I was like that.

I have networked through a variety of means. I regularly attend church, and although I don't attend just to build my social network I still make sure I spend extra time visiting with people. That not only helps me network but is sometimes the only way to address needs in the church. I used to attend professional meetings like the local JavaMUG and may do the same again once my next contract is underway. There are usually industry specific group meetings for any career field in most large cities. Look them up and attend some meetings, meet some people in your field.

There are also job networking groups that can be quite useful. Again, you'd have to attend their meetings, but you can often pick up contacts and useful tips for your job search. The most important thing you can do is socialize, socialize, socialize. Unfortunately, the tendency of technologists is to sit on their duff at home in front of the computer. That is the worst thing to do if you're looking for work.

When you are at a job, this still remains important. Talk to people outside your department, develop professional relationships with other employees and managers. You never know what that might lead to. I have known several people who ended up with better jobs because they impressed a manager and then the manager left for another company and brought that person on to work for them. You just never know when an opportunity will come along.
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Srikanth Raghavan:

Can you ranchers give me some reference or point me to a direction to grow my contacts? And by the way I am from Hyderabad, India.

Thank you!


In current Indian Job Market scenario I do not think you do not required much contacts or references for getting interview calls. If you post your resume in job sites like: monster, naukri you will get lot of calls. May be you will get calls slowly. If you dont have references you do not need to worry much.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19073
    
  40

It is best *not* to think of your professional network as people who can help you in your career.

Think of it as people who you can help. Think of it as people who you can have technical or even non-technical debates with. Think of it as people who you can have a beer with... In other words, people you like.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Networking is absolutely key to job success. This is one of those soft skills I keep emphasizing. If you had a choice spending 6 hours a week for 3 months studying Hibernate or spenidng it networking there is no doubt in my mind that the latter would get you more job opportunities and a higher lifetime compensation.

understand that this is not a quick fix. Networking is very unlikely to help you on this job search. Rather, it is a strategic tool Typically a contact I make takes about 6 months before being of any use and really are only useful when measured over a period of 2-10 years.

Sending resumes online is not a way to make contacts, that's merely a way to send out resumes. If you want to increase your contact list, you need to go out and meet more people, that's it. I'd recommend college alumni events, professional networking groups, charity work, religious groups, cltural events, friends, friend of friends, parties, etc.

The wrong way to do it is to talk to someone for 5 minutes at an event, get a card, and move on to the next person. The right way to do it is to build a natural relationship with that person. It means finding a connection to that person during the conversation and then building a relationship over the next few months and years.

I recommend Pocket Guide to Becoming a Superstar In Your Field and Never Eat Alone. You can also find Networking tips at http://www.spitfireteam.com/.

I also recommend using Networking webservices like LinkedIn or Ryze.

Note: I do use the interview process to build my network, in that I often keep in touch with people I meet while interviewing. That said that is something of an "advanced technique" and I'd recommend starting by just meeting people at the events I mentioned.

--Mark
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Oh, I forgot the most important point: Networking is "what can I do to help others?"

That's it. Once you start thinking of it as a way to help yourself, you're going to be far less effective.

To me "networking" is very karmic, I get ahead by helping others. If you go in trying to meet people who can help you, they'll pick up on that and will be put off by it. Rather, be genuinely interested in helping others and they will recriprocate.

--Mark
Abdulelah Dandachi
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 19
I have known several people who ended up with better jobs because they impressed a manager and then the manager left for another company and brought that person on to work for them


Yep, thats usually how it happens. Your biggest salary hikes wont come from your current employer, but from a client or partner who steals you away.

By the way, did you try www.bayt.com? Has a Middle Eastern focus, but it's worth a try.

Remember that people, being people, make judgements emotionaly, and then justify them logicaly. If you're liked, a million other shortcommings will be overlooked.

Here in the ME networking is actually much easier. Every cousin or second cousin is a contact. Just being the same nationality as a key manager is a plus (and being the national of a country he has it in for a major minus).

And I cant begin to count the number of people I know who got promoted beyound their abilities, because their wives made a great impression on the wives of managers and CEOs. Honestly, it got me seriously contemplating taking the full qouta of four wives, each one a strategicaly chosen nationality (kidding).

Some of the most effective techniques I've seen at networking werent really thought out in advance, but were people just trying to be helpful to others. A guy set up a website to sell used cars in Riyadh, and it got him in contact with all sorts of people, one of whom had a relative working for a major consultancy company. Another just struck up a conversation with a guy trying to buy a mobile phone, and helped him make sense of the bewildering number of options and models. I used to write tech articles, and thought that would help. Nope, didnt. The best contact I made was while attending a celebration for a colleague, whos wife had given birth to twin daughters.

The best advice I was told was, when getting to know people, give a little something first. Help them out with an IT problem, or teach classes. Advise them on their next laptop purchase. Help them with that damn Windows blue screen they keep getting. Simple things really. Let THEM see the benefit in having you as an acquantance, and dont force every certification youve ever gotten down their throats. Someone once said, be liked, and you'll never want.


SCJP, TIBCO Certified Professional
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
I had a perfect example of networking from tonight. I was attending a NYC SPIN event--NYC Software Process Improvement Network, a professional organization as you can imagine. At the end of the event I wanted to talk to the speaker and someone else. While waiting to speak to him, I overheard someone speaking to an organizer asking if they could provides references and other backgroun material prior to each monthly talk so that he can come to the talks more prepared. The organizer was saying he'd like to, but it's a volunteer group, and he and the handful of other volunteers don't always have time to try doing that. Hearing all this, I jumped into the conversation and suggested a wiki. The organizer was very fond of that idea (having just learned of wiki's at last months talk) and immediate called over another organizer to tell her of my idea.

You notice at this point, all I did was notice an opportunity where I could be of help. In this case I spotted (or rather overheard) a problem, and offered a solution.

This woman liked the idea and while chatting asked me if I wanted to get more involved, perhaps voluntering with NYC SPIN. At this point I did say something calculated: "I'm potentially interested, but need to wait a few weeks until I complete my job search." It was a subtle way of saying "I'm looking for work."

She then asked what I did for a living and I gave her a 15-second elevator pitch. She said she had a friend who starts companies (which is what I look for) with whom she will put me in touch. Viola, I have a potential job lead.

Now this was a bit rapid, and certainly the introduction she can give me is nothing more than "I met this guy..." as opposed to "I know Mark would be a fantastic addition to your team because..." Nevertheless the process used is:

1) Encounter someone who has a problem.
2) Offer to help.
3) Start a dialog.
4) The favor will eventually be repaid.

Often times the help you provide is as simple as what transpired tonight. A piece of advice that takes a few minutes is all that's needed to start the process.

--Mark
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Thank you all my fellow ranchers for sharing your thoughts and thanks for the advises.

And my personal experience with Naukri, Monster etc is not all that great. I expected to get calls from IBM, Sun, Oracle (guys can I say Microsoft here??? ).... But I didn't get from any of them, and as I said before I didn't get a single call from any company through naukri or monster....

Mark, your suggestions were very nice and I think that is how contacts must be increased. Thank you John, Jason, Henry and KJ Reddy for sharing your views.

But I won't fully agree with you Reddy on getting a lot of calls by just posting your resume. Once I get my next job at a bigger company, I will never post my resume on these sites 'cause I have lost hopes.

But I found sites like ChetanaS to be more useful than Naukri or Monster.... Here's the link:
http://www.chetanasforum.com/

Have a great time,
Srikanth
[ October 13, 2006: Message edited by: Srikanth Raghavan ]
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Forgot to thank Abdulelah Dandachi!

Thank you man...
[ October 13, 2006: Message edited by: Srikanth Raghavan ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Srikanth Raghavan:

But I won't fully agree with you Reddy on getting a lot of calls by just posting your resume. Once I get my next job at a bigger company, I will never post my resume on these sites 'cause I have lost hopes.


I fail to grasp your logic here.

I also disagree with KJ Reddy that posting your resume will get you lots of calls. I see no evidence that posting results in phone calls nor is that listed as a garanteed part of the process by those companies. What they do offer is that employers will be able to find your resume and may call you for roles for which you are qualified. Nothing more or less.

Given that these services are free, and it takes only a few minutes to post, I see no reason not post, unless you have a more valuable use of those few minutes.

Remember as well that you don't want to get lots of calls from companies--that is also a waste of time. Instead you want calls from a few companies that are the right fit for you.

--Mark
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389

I fail to grasp your logic here.

I also disagree with KJ Reddy that posting your resume will get you lots of calls. I see no evidence that posting results in phone calls nor is that listed as a garanteed part of the process by those companies. What they do offer is that employers will be able to find your resume and may call you for roles for which you are qualified. Nothing more or less.


I don't want to post on these job sites cause I am not getting any calls from the companies which I like to get (the ones I mentioned in my previous post). That's the reason why I said I will never post.


Given that these services are free, and it takes only a few minutes to post, I see no reason not post, unless you have a more valuable use of those few minutes.


Yes, I agree with you on this point. I think I was a little disappointed with them (those job sites) and out of that disappointment I wrote what I said. But still, I think posting our resume on these sites is one of the tools in the tool box for getting a job and it's not the number 1 tool.
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Srikanth Raghavan:

But I won't fully agree with you Reddy on getting a lot of calls by just posting your resume. Once I get my next job at a bigger company, I will never post my resume on these sites 'cause I have lost hopes.

But I found sites like ChetanaS to be more useful than Naukri or Monster.... Here's the link:
http://www.chetanasforum.com/

[ October 13, 2006: Message edited by: Srikanth Raghavan ]


In current Indian job market scenario posting resume in Naukri or Monster will make you lot of interview calls. I am not sure about other skills but atleast of Java there is lot of openings, and consultants will be behind you if you post your resume in job sites. When I am looking for job change I posted my resume job sites and I used to get atleast 10 calls, 30 to 40 emails per day. But I found it eats lot your time.

But if you choosy about your next company then posting your reume may or may not work. If you are not getting much calls you may need to modify your contents. Even for freshers it may not work.

I heard chetanasforum is more useful for freshers, not sure I didnt looked into the site.

Good Luck
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


I also disagree with KJ Reddy that posting your resume will get you lots of calls. I see no evidence that posting results in phone calls nor is that listed as a garanteed part of the process by those companies. What they do offer is that employers will be able to find your resume and may call you for roles for which you are qualified. Nothing more or less.

--Mark


Mark, in current Indian job market scenario it works. When I am looking for job change I used to get 10 + calls(mostly job consultants) regarding arranging the interview and 30 to 40 mails. The problem is you may get lot of calls which is time waste to answer every call. Even though I posted my resume long back still I do get mails and phone calls.
[ October 14, 2006: Message edited by: KJ Reddy ]
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Originally posted by KJ Reddy:


In current Indian job market scenario posting resume in Naukri or Monster will make you lot of interview calls. I am not sure about other skills but atleast of Java there is lot of openings, and consultants will be behind you if you post your resume in job sites. When I am looking for job change I posted my resume job sites and I used to get atleast 10 calls, 30 to 40 emails per day. But I found it eats lot your time.

But if you choosy about your next company then posting your reume may or may not work. If you are not getting much calls you may need to modify your contents. Even for freshers it may not work.

I heard chetanasforum is more useful for freshers, not sure I didnt looked into the site.

Good Luck


I will be the most happiest person even if I get 1 call per day, I got my resume reviewed by many people cause I had the same doubt. May be you are much more experienced than me and thats why the consultants were behind you.

Yes, you are right, Chetanas is more useful for freshers but they also have a forum dedicated for people with my experience (1+) too. And thats where I am able to find jobs.

Man... seriously, do you guys know some trick which I am missing???
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
You can send your resume, I will if I can improve your resume. I am not expert but I will try.
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Hi KJ,

Can you send me a PM with your e-mail ID... Or send me e-mail, I will reply back ... I can't see the e-mail hyperlink on your profile...

Thanks
[ October 14, 2006: Message edited by: Srikanth Raghavan ]
Arun Prasath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Posts: 192
Yes,
In India, posting in Naukri.com works for finding job opportunities. My roommate posted his resume in Naukri.com, and the next day got 25+ calls from consultants and other companies. He is having 6+ years in c,c++, unix.
Chetan Parekh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 3636
I am in touch with many Ranchers on IM. We know who is doing what and who is looking for what kind of people / work. This is also good way to improve your PR.


My blood is tested +ve for Java.
Srikanth Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2005
Posts: 389
Originally posted by Chetan Parekh:
I am in touch with many Ranchers on IM. We know who is doing what and who is looking for what kind of people / work. This is also good way to improve your PR.


Chetan, Check your PM
Biren shah
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 107
Nice post
Thanks everybody , especially Mark for sharing his experience and wisdom.


Biren Shah<br />scjp 93%<br />scwcd 1.4 92%
 
 
subject: Making Contacts