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Is Java web developement boring ?

Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

In the last two days, I was thinking of Java web developer daily work.
As a Java web developer, you use some kind of frameworks, JavaScript, CSS, HTML lablabla ...
You just reimplement already exist application (e-shopping, banking site, forum ...)
While all of these projects require alot of work, time, desiging and testing but all what you do is reimplementing not a real programming (I think).
I understand real programming as writing a piece of useful code like a parser, engine, a framework (like Spring, Hibernate, Taestry) and yes a language !
Well, I know that a small number of people able to do this but other programming tasks seem boring to me these days ...
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Yeah, I hate those hacks who call themselves programmers who use things like file handles, IO streams, data structures, etc. Let's face it, if you're not pushing bits directly into memory addresses, you're just building on top of other people's code. :-p

More seriously, unless you're writing assembler ocde, everything you do builds on other people's code. However, at different levels people have different challenges. Personally, one of the reasons I moved away from programming (although this was a minor factor) is that I felt as though I was building the same thing over and over. I was doing the type of programming it sounds like you want to do, but it wasn't for me. Everyone has their own preference as to what is interesting. Only you can decide what is right for you.

--Mark
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

I moved away from programming


So you are a manager now ?


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Rohit Nath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 387
I do agree with you that it does get repetitive and boring at times when you are just trying to reuse existing solutions and often doing the thing i hate the most is reference implementations. There is really not much freedom to innovation of new code in terms of the contribution to the code base. You mostly see a pattern emergin in the kind of tasks you do.
But on the other hand I think there is an equal opportunity to see all these technologies interwork and collabore with each other. You really get to work from basic technologies from html right to advanced java concepts like EJB's and so on. So again it does give you good opportunity to try out your hands on almost all kinds of programming code. Also I dont think most of the applications are just reimplimentations of already existing applications. What business sense does it make anyway to do that if the application already exists? There are some serious enterprise applications been implimented which are far beyond the applications mentioned here. Most of these are complete ERP solutions catering to very specific industries/businesses and having highly specific requirements which in most of the cases are quite complex and does need a lot of innovation and out of the box thinking!
Also I think gone are the days when one used to write the so called "real code" which will ultimately "program" a machine to do a particular task. We are living in the world where "reuse" and "component based architecture" are the key words to keep in the business. Keeping this in mind using frameworks/patterns/ extension of existing solutions is the way to go. So "Reinventing the entire wheel" for any application that is to be an "enterprise application" is simple out of question.
So there are pros and cons. But i do agree that one does get bored doing the same thing again and again. I think then one needs to focus on higher concepts to keep oneself interested ;P
The following quote says it just right..

If you�re bored, increase your challenge.
If you�re stressed, increase your skill.


Rohit
[ November 15, 2006: Message edited by: Rohit Nath ]

R.N
Gaurav Arora
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 9
Hi ,

My thoghts about this is that If you are in a product development envirionment you will never be bored because at the end of the day you see a complete product infront of your eyes.My liking is to be coding in a product research and develeopment envirionment


Thanks and regards
Gaurav Arora
Ketan Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 09, 2005
Posts: 66
I agree to Rohit Nath
The days are gone when you would be writing the so called 'Real Program'
Also I guess there is no time to reinvent the wheel

There are engines which generate code.We are actually heading towards days when everything will be configurable using xml.

Also
It takes reasonable intellegence to understand the underlying framework and then modify it.

Things get boring once we know the stuff in an out and then there is no thinking required.Then the coding becomes boring as most of the things have been done by you and you are cut-copy-pasting the code.

Hey Hey on a lighter note,getting bored is a fundamental right of software engineers.Are we in for a time to move on mail ??
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Originally posted by Gaurav Arora:
Hi ,

My thoghts about this is that If you are in a product development envirionment you will never be bored because at the end of the day you see a complete product infront of your eyes.My liking is to be coding in a product research and develeopment envirionment


Thanks and regards
Gaurav Arora


If you are involved developing a product from scratch it will be challenging otherwise that also becomes boring.
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
Originally posted by Ketan Joshi:


Things get boring once we know the stuff in an out and then there is no thinking required.Then the coding becomes boring as most of the things have been done by you and you are cut-copy-pasting the code.


My thought is opposite to this, if you know the 'in and out' of any product/process/project then only you can actually find the scope of changes and work become more challanging...
s jain
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 102
Originally posted by KJ Reddy:


If you are involved developing a product from scratch it will be challenging otherwise that also becomes boring.

ya..you may be involve in doing bug fixing for a long time.Depending upon product it may be feel very slow environment to work means long product cycles,not much deadlines..etc.
Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

Originally posted by Rohit Nath:
There are some serious enterprise applications been implimented which are far beyond the applications mentioned here. Most of these are complete ERP solutions catering to very specific industries/businesses and having highly specific requirements which in most of the cases are quite complex and does need a lot of innovation and out of the box thinking!
[ November 15, 2006: Message edited by: Rohit Nath ]

Sure, but what are the opportunities you will work in such projects ?
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2061
In those cases when you are stuck with java web development and bored with it, just think about those people who are stuck with COBOL TSO Mainframe programming.

No colors, no mouse, no drop-downs.
Gaurav Arora
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 9
Hi Guys ,

In india we in the software companies are never involved in the Research work..It is of late that the MNC's have come in and opened their R&d centers here.Yes I do agree that even in the product envirionment becomes boring if you are involved in bugs and fixes but there are envirionments you enjoy when you deal in technologies like Telecom lik CDMA or GSM technologies.

I have a suggestion from my end..We are so many java coders here ..Why don;t we form a group and use this group to make some opene source softwares for the people who need them.For example some sofwtares which can help farmers of india..Softwares which can help physically handicapped and old age people ..There might be more suggestions from you end as well..We can also use our technical abilities to develop some robotic or artifical intelligent softwares which can be used by our scientists for good means. If you have some more suggestions you can also give this to me at http://lifetoday.15.forumer.com/ in the NASRO forum .



Thanks and regards
Gaurav Arora
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
How boring any project is really depends on what the end result is intended to be.

A majority of my projects have been web development and they have run the gauntlet from boring as hell to extremely challenging. The technology field is always changing and where boredom does tend to creep in is when people insist on doing the same thing whether or not something better is out there.

Ultimately, the discipline of computer science is one that says if you really understand the core principles then it doesn't matter what you program in today, you should be familiar enough with those concepts to use something else tomorrow. I know people who work in software development that are not computer scientists. These people struggle with learning things like JSTL when they already know Struts because they don't understand how these two technologies are similar. They also don't understand how they are different.

The more you understand the underlying foundations of computer science, the tougher it is to be challenged. I don't have a formal computer science background, so I was VERY challenged early in my career.

The other area of challenge is not technological, but creative. A lot of people are very good so long as they don't have to do anything new. They might use new technologies, but only to do something they've done before. This, to me, is boring. I am always curious as to what is going to be unique about a new project. One thing I have noticed is that some developers will aschew any part of a project that enters a new area for them. I know on my last project, an eCommerce application, the UI was the most complex I had ever seen. eCommerce is fairly pat for me since that was one of my earliest assignments, but the user interface was a great challenge. Not only that, but we have a very tight deadline.

I don't want to just do web development, but there is such a huge demand for it right now. However, it is easy to get stuck in a rut with it, especially if you work for industry. I work in a consultancy, so I am continually assigned to new projects. I think this also is what keeps it fresh for me. I had the opportunity to convert at one client site and did not just because I could see that maintaining the same system day in and day out was not going to keep me engaged.
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2061
As of now, I am challenged on 'design'.

As for programming, as the fact goes: Most languages are similar in semantics, different only in syntax. So it gets boring.
Carol Enderlin
drifter
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2000
Posts: 1364
It's my opinion that if you find the day to day work of your job boring it's time to either approach your job differently, get a new job, or get a new career.

12 years ago I found the day to day work I was doing boring and I opted for a new career. Now my day to day work isn't boring. Sometimes I will be on a project that isn't very satisfying, but the day to day work generally isn't boring.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19070
    
  40

I think it is personal preference. I have a friend who only develop web code. He finds the non-graphical, non-user-interaction stuff, totally boring -- and don't understand how I can work with all the backend stuff.

Henry


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