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Politics in MD

Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
[ This came from a thread from MD which got hijacked - I've made a copy of the thread here with the parts that are appropriate to the JavaRanch forum. - Jim ]
[ April 24, 2007: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

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Chetan Parekh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 3636
Have we allowed political discussion in MD?


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Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42276
    
  64
Politics was never banned per se. It's just that many people seem to be unable to talk about it in a civilized manner, thus those discussions have tended to be moderated more heavily and trashed sooner.

Any further discussion of this should go into a new thread in the JavaRanch forum, where site policies are discussed.


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Frank Silbermann
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1387
Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
Politics was never banned per se. It's just that many people seem to be unable to talk about it in a civilized manner, thus those discussions have tended to be moderated more heavily and trashed sooner.

Any further discussion of this should go into a new thread in the JavaRanch forum, where site policies are discussed.
When my posts get trashed, it's usually because I wrote something political or sociological that disagreed with moderator Max's Habibi's Weltanshaung, or mentioned a Marxist cultural icon with the tone that is usually reserved for national socialists.
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Frank, easy, please. One of the two should be wiser, right?
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20635
    ∞

Oh my.

Frank, that is a mighty powerful accusation of my very dear friend Max.

I rather like to think that Max is a charming man and would never delete a message because it does not match his personal views. Rather, my impression is that Max has repeatedly done me the generous favor of removing content from my site that doesn't meet **my** standards. Plus helped thousands of good people gain a better understanding of java. An all around great guy.

I think that I am open to getting to the bottom of the accusations - and if Max is behaving in a less than charming manner, Max and I will need to have a chat.

I gotta be straight with you. At this very moment my gut says that you might be just making trouble. So for the good of the community I'm thinking about where I might have put my tar and feathers.

If your claim is legit and you wish to see change, you had best choose your words carefully - and some evidence to back up your words would be helpful too.
[ April 25, 2007: Message edited by: Paul Wheaton ]

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Frank Silbermann
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1387
Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:
Oh my. Frank, that is a mighty powerful accusation of my very dear friend Max. I rather like to think that Max is a charming man and would never delete a message because it does not match his personal views. ... I think that I am open to getting to the bottom of the accusations - and if Max is behaving in a less than charming manner, Max and I will need to have a chat. ... If your claim is legit and you wish to see change, you had best choose your words carefully - and some evidence to back up your words would be helpful too.
Your restatement of what I said is harsher than the words I used. Obviously there are a great many posts with which Max disagrees that he does NOT delete. Nor am I "out to get" Max; and I'm certainly not saying that I could do the job better -- as if I had the time!

Furthermore, I apologize for putting my uncalled for comment in the "Boris Yeltsin Died" thread -- wrong time and place (if there even a right time and place). Right after I posted it I noticed that the previous post suggested NOT discussing moderator policies in this thread, so I tried to delete my post -- but Jim Yingst had gotten to it before me. (I suppose my irritation stemmed from a very recent thread about the threats against Kathy Sierra -- which I have already discussed off-line with Jim.)

If I feel that Max wields a more eager editorial sword against a post he disagree with (in determining whether he feels it has crossed the line), that's hardly a "powerful accusation" -- perfect objectivity probably does not exist in nature.

Still, ... I've been perplexed by Max' decisions before. One episode comes to mind. I can only work from memory and cannot prove that my recollection is correct; Max might have remembered it differently:

Mapraputa asked me why I was so reluctant to embrace certain proposed liberal social changes -- did I once have a bad experience with diversity or what?

I responded that America already strives for and attains a great many liberal social ideals I deeply value -- ideals which are still not found in the majority of the world -- and that I feared ruining a good thing by pushing things too far, perhaps to the point of social collapse.

The line of mine that Max deleted was something like "I suppose some people such as linguist Noam Chomsky and historian Howard Zinn, who hate what America is and has been, might feel that further social experimentation wouldn't risk anything that is of much value anyway -- so we might as well go for it. But I don't feel that way."

Did Max delete that part because I wasn't nice to Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn? Is there any question that their attitude towards America's past and present has always been strongly negative?

Did Max think I implied that all people more willing than I to risk radical social change therefore hate what America is and has been? (I hope not; from what I wrote such a conclusion would not logically follow.)

Now, this was a very small thing so I feel rather petty even bringing it up. But did that sentence cross the line? I sure didn't think so. But I do know that Max's politics and mine are far apart, and my posts don't usually seem to attract the attention of the other moderators. (I don't know; maybe Max simply follows the forum more closely than they do.)
 
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subject: Politics in MD