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Quick On-site opportunity

PRavi kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 69
Hi ,

Which type of softwarecompanies will provide the quick on-site Opportunity in India?

Product based software company�s are best or
Service Based software company�s are best.

Share your thoughts.
[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: PRavi kumar ]
Mani Ram
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 1140
As far as I know, a carrier in fields like aviation pilot, shipping crew, UN peace keeping force etc will give you more on-site opportunities than the ones you have mentioned here!


Mani
Quaerendo Invenietis
srishal singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 33
Please refrain from cheesy jokes!!

Service based companies like Indian MNCS some of well known ones will be best for the same as the nature of work involves sometimes close interaction with customers.

Product based companies have very less chance of onsite
as the process of devlopment is mostly done and only things like bug fixing etc are in progress. They are good for work-life balance (Sometimes known as retirement companies )

Hope this helps
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638

Originally posted by srishal singh:

Product based companies have very less chance of onsite
as the process of devlopment is mostly done and only things like bug fixing etc are in progress. They are good for work-life balance (Sometimes known as retirement companies )

You mean to say that there are no companies in India that are making a new product? Boy .. and i thought i am making one!!!


apigee, a better way to API!
Shiv Sidhaarth
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 06, 2001
Posts: 119
I haven't quite understood 100% difference between product based company and service based company.

I have worked in web applications development for 5 years. I have been in product development and worked in services in swing application. I had to do some bug fixing and enhancement(which also involves analysis, design, coding, testing). These 4 phases come in pure product development also. What is the major difference here???
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638

The difference between a product and a services company is that in a services company, a client drives the requirements and in a product company, product management group analysis the field requirements and specify features for the product. A services project requires a client to start and a product company requires a client after a product dev has completed!
However, the development lifecycle and methodology more or less remains the same in both the companies.
Rahul Bhattacharjee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2308
Absolutely Nitesh.
One more thing I find is that product based companies are vision driven and service based companies are requirement.

One a service company has a requirement , they start chasing the requirement.
But a product based company works in the other way round.Until you prove your product very impressive than the other products of similar kind then you might not hit the market well.So vision is key.

coming to the original question ,for onsite look for some indian service based companies.I hope you got it.


Rahul Bhattacharjee
LinkedIn - Blog
srishal singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 33
You mean to say that there are no companies in India that are making a new product? Boy .. and i thought i am making one!!!

where did I say the above?
Most of the product companies have a successfull running product (else they wouldnt start shop here!!). All they do is maintainance and enhancements.
If you are involved in the first product release then you get very challenging work. Otherwise the afterwards maintaince is not very challenging.I heard It is like sometimes rearranging the UI/fixing some data problem etc. So mostly this kind of work is done at offshore. Hence there are not much onsite chances in Product companies.
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638


Most of the product companies have a successfull running product (else they wouldnt start shop here!!). All they do is maintainance and enhancements.

This is what i dont agree with. If *most* of the product companies you have seen recently are like this then you have not seen enough!!!

If you are involved in the first product release then you get very challenging work.

Absolutely

Otherwise the afterwards maintaince is not very challenging.
I heard It is like sometimes rearranging the UI/fixing some data problem etc.

It depends on which side of the dev team you are in. If you just do maintenance then it sucks. But, if you really have it in you, the product is doing well and product managers have a good vision then new features will never stop flowing in. These new features will require a good amount of work.


So mostly this kind of work is done at offshore. Hence there are not much onsite chances in Product companies.


I would say there is no such model as onsite and offshore in a product company. Its one dev team. Onsite is usually related to "client side" working.
srishal singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 33
This is what i dont agree with. If *most* of the product companies you have seen recently are like this then you have not seen enough!!!

please clarify...
I ve so far heard about only two world class indian products/companies Finnacle and another company is IFlex . Rest of all (maybe what you are talking ) may be targeting local indian market.
[ August 09, 2007: Message edited by: srishal singh ]
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638

Hey shrishal,

Do you think people would have heard about iflex when they have not released flexcube?
See the point here is that it takes time for a company to become world class. There are many companies that are in the process of making high quality products(in India but targeting the global market). Their success depends on a lot of aspect and the most important being the marketing and vision of product management team. Even if they are not successful, the development team invariably will be a good set of people. If you work in such a company you will get enormous experience that will do wonders to your career. The eventual result may be a successful product or not and that should not matter to an engineer who worked in it.
On the other hand, joining "the world class companies" at a stage where they are already successful will not give you the same experience if you would have joined them earlier but still there will be quite a good amount of work done in those companies. There is no company that can survive only by maintaining the releases they have made. They constantly need to bring in new products/features. Again, it depends on which side of the dev team you land up in such companies.

Hope it makes some sense.
Ajay Saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 154
Fully agree with Nitesh.

One gets neither a sound technical exposure nor an oppurtunity to build sound technical depth working in those services companies. They are just into client driven application development. They can never create real IP.

In services based companies,one only gets to build applications on top of intricate products such application servers,Messaging products,Integration Servers, ESBs and a host of other middleware solutions developed by product companies.

I also think you have been seriouly misled by the type of work done by the Indian offshore development centers of a handful of product companies.

I've worked three years in complete development projects in a product devlopment company,that involved implementing intricate server side logic.

Currently I'm working on sustaining( or maintenance as you say) a middleware product but I'm loving every bit of it as I'm having the oppurtunity to work on a myriad of challenging aspects of real software developmemt such as Resource Optimization,Concurrency management,Interprocess communication and lowlevel distributed computing,things which I'm sure, anybody working in the services domain,will NEVER have an opputunity to work on.Because the business model of services company is entirely different. And actually speaking , they are not TRUE software companies.

So before saying that product based companies ,in Inda, are retirement companies ,good only for striking the right balance between work and life,
think again ...LOL
[ August 15, 2007: Message edited by: san ban ]
v ray
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 15, 2007
Posts: 223

good only for striking the right balance between work and life..


Ofcourse, there is nothing wrong with striking the right balance between work/life/play or whatever. However, having the misconception that such a balance is possible only in product based companies might be naive.
srishal singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 33
In services based companies,one only gets to build applications on top of intricate products such application servers,Messaging products,Integration Servers, ESBs and a host of other middleware solutions developed by product companies.


This is true but not every product developed by any code monkey is used by service companies. Only few products are worth it.

Service companies
You have to write and ship entire project from start to end from scratch in time and with good quality. This is end to end.. There is no escape.

Product
most of the times (in offshore scenario) the product is already built (90%) . Sometimes you work on 10% tasks like moving and aligning buttons/controls. You can claim that you have worked on all complex parts like Resource Optimization,Concurrency management,Interprocess communication and lowlevel distributed computing..

It is possible that you have been working only on commenting the code which is done by earlier architect..
Most often end developers end up being a cog in the giant wheel.
Also In most of products there are ready frameworks/approaches to deal with complex issues( at least in big successful companies). No need to reinvent the wheel. This is maintainance in reality..

I know there are some people who worked on world class products. So there are exceptions. You can only tell by experience.
Ajay Saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 154
It is possible that you have been working only on commenting the code which is done by earlier architect..


No wonder ,such a perception can exist with people having a second hand knowledge on product development/maintenance.

You dont' see IITians commenting around codes ..lol


most of the times (in offshore scenario) the product is already built (90%) . Sometimes you work on 10% tasks like moving and aligning buttons/controls. You can claim that you have worked on all complex parts like Resource Optimization,Concurrency management,Interprocess communication and lowlevel distributed computing


Dude, grapes are really sour What would somebody gain out of claiming to have worked on some stuff without actually having worked on them?
These tricks may work in services companies. Come for an interview in a good product development company making any false claim and you'll get to see the consequences.

[ August 16, 2007: Message edited by: san ban ]
[ August 16, 2007: Message edited by: san ban ]
srishal singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 33
You dont' see IITians commenting around codes ..lol


I have actually seen IITians working on technical documentation in one of my earlier companies (among Big five). I am not saying they were the best of IITians.
Heard the news of IITians commiting suicide while studying??
I wonder if they are very sane people..
akash kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 63

[ January 17, 2008: Message edited by: akash kumar ]
pooja jain
greenhorn
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 213
Originally posted by san ban:

These tricks may work in services companies. Come for an interview in a good product development company making any false claim and you'll get to see the consequences.

[ August 16, 2007: Message edited by: san ban ]

[ August 16, 2007: Message edited by: san ban ]


very true. whatever the level of work would be, but their interview level would be never down.


:d
Raghavan Ramji
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 26, 2008
Posts: 18
Answer "Service Based software company�s are best" for onsite opp
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8898

Most of product dev companies do maintenance work in India. Even if you are on new product the design will be in US , you will doing some coding and testing



I think it is because not many in India are as skillful as US architects or designers. This could change in few years as more people gain experience in architecting products

Then there are many companies in India where you come out product ideas,patents etc Some of them are easy to get in,other difficult as you need to have some Ph.D or come out those premier institutes.

I feel that someone should start career in services company for the first 2-3 years as it give exposure to many technolgies working on different projects.


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