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Are managers billable?

Tirumal Reddy
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Posts: 2
Hello Ranchers,

I have heard that managers are not billable. Is it true? if so why?



-Tirumal
Srikanth Basa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Posts: 241
Thats true. Managers are not billable.
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

It depends on the project - there's no blanket situation that says managers aren't billable. (On the project that I'm currently assigned to, our PM is fully billable - she's a critical member of the team as far as our client is concerned.) It varies is the only fair answer I can give.


Theodore Jonathan Casser
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Srikanth Basa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Posts: 241
(On the project that I'm currently assigned to, our PM is fully billable - she's a critical member of the team as far as our client is concerned.)


In your case, I believe the PM is responsible for the design and architecture of the project or probably even some development activities. Am I correct ?

The client is billed only for the analysis, design, development, testing and bug fixing activities. A general project manager is not expected to do any of these tasks, in fact, he/she is just a person who just ensures the team coordinates well in getting the tasks done.

Of course there are PMs who write code, design and architecture. These people are billable
Jan Cumps
Bartender

Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 2516
    
  10

Doesn't that depend on your commercial agreement with the other party?
I've seen both situations. In some, the manager is not mentioned as part of the price setting; in others, an part of the purchase was an amount of project manager hours.

Regards, Jan


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Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

Originally posted by Srikanth Basavaraju:
In your case, I believe the PM is responsible for the design and architecture of the project or probably even some development activities. Am I correct ?


You are incorrect - our PM is not responsible for design, architecture or development. (She's not a programmer or architect.) She does some QA, but mostly she plays traffic cop with the schedule and handles oodles of paperwork and contacts with the client personnel.

As Jan said, it depends on the terms of the agreement.
Devesh H Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 687

Originally posted by Srikanth Basavaraju:
Thats true. Managers are not billable.


Thats a blatently misleading statement.

Originally posted by Srikanth Basavaraju:
In your case, I believe the PM is responsible for the design and architecture of the project or probably even some development activities. Am I correct ?

The client is billed only for the analysis, design, development, testing and bug fixing activities. A general project manager is not expected to do any of these tasks, in fact, he/she is just a person who just ensures the team coordinates well in getting the tasks done.

Of course there are PMs who write code, design and architecture. These people are billable


Either you are working in the wrong kind of organisation which is feeding such misconceptions or maybe you have'nt yet had exposure to the management stream and hence should'nt be making such statements in the first place.
Mike Isano
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 144
Managers don't actually contribute to the project so they usually can't have their hours billed. But there is often record keeping and busy work which developers cannot be bothered with. This is the task of managers.
Srikanth Basa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Posts: 241
Originally posted by Devesh H Rao:
Thats a blatently misleading statement.

May be. Many of my friends work with reputed service based companies and all have the same answer that their managers are non-billable and Mike posted the same reason that I have got from my friends.

Coming to me, I am into product development so we don't have the concept of billable resource.
Rahul Bhattacharjee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2308
Hi Tirumal Reddy ,

It all depends.But if you see the Indian IT industry (mainly working on outsourced work) managers are not generally billed.


Rahul Bhattacharjee
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Jan Cumps
Bartender

Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 2516
    
  10

Originally posted by Mike Isano:
[...] But there is often record keeping and busy work which developers cannot be bothered with. This is the task of managers.

Mike, this is a strange definition of the term "manager".

Regards, Jan
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
For some reason this has struck me as one of the silliest conversations I've seen in this forum. (To be clear, I'm not singling out any particular posting--just something about the whole conversation.)

There is a general guideline for whether or not someone is billable--if you can get the client to pay for the person, s/he is billable. That's all there is to it.

Now what is a manager? project manager? account manager? engagement manager? divisional manager? CEO? Project managers often play an active role on a project and provide direct value. Account managers are just there to maintain the relationship with the client; they are often not billed at all--although obviously the billing rates of the other members include overheard for guys like this. Engagement managers may or may not be billed depending on what they do and how actively. They may be just meet with the project owners every month to checkup, or they may actively help provide direction and strategy to the project. A higher up manager (even the CEO) may also check in if it's large project, but usually to keep the client happy and make sure things are going ok.

--Mark
 
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