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background check

simran kaur
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 02, 2007
Posts: 1
will [some company] inquire about the experience in india for a job in US.

[Edit: Please do NOT discuss specific companies in this forum. Please read our NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! before posting.]
[ October 02, 2007: Message edited by: Andrew Monkhouse ]
Michael Ku
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2002
Posts: 510
Lying on your job application is grounds for dismissal in any company. You may get the job and later be fired for lying on your job application
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

Just for curiosity, wondering, how many MNCs from US does Background check in India or other country? I am sure no middle range company can efford so just bypassing them.
Michael Ku
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2002
Posts: 510
Again, lying is still wrong. It is wrong for you to try and get advice on how to get away with not telling the truth.
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

Again, lying is still wrong.


Yes that is true. 1000 times true. And sometimes people fake for their degree, that is even losing moral too.

But there is no need to behave like a saint in software industry. Microsoft started by saying that they have software tested on mainframe, while bill gates was writing software code on his school computer.

Google still reads your mail, you might be seeing many times there is a advertisement related to subject of your mail in gmail. How come it is coming!!!

If all companies are just saying true, world might not have so many IT companies.

So let's leave the world of saint and work in real world.
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

Originally posted by Jignesh Patel:


Yes that is true. 1000 times true. And sometimes people fake for their degree, that is even losing moral too.

But there is no need to behave like a saint in software industry. Microsoft started by saying that they have software tested on mainframe, while bill gates was writing software code on his school computer.

Google still reads your mail, you might be seeing many times there is a advertisement related to subject of your mail in gmail. How come it is coming!!!

If all companies are just saying true, world might not have so many IT companies.

So let's leave the world of saint and work in real world.



Google made you sign a license agreement and I dont recall windows being tested in a mainframe. Surely the modern windows you work with today was not made on a school computer. If you dont like windows switch to linux.

Your logic is not very strong here. You say it is ok to lie in your resume just because google looks through your mail ? they are very different things.


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Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

I am not trying to justify that lying in Resume is good. Its' 100% depend on person's nature.

But I am trying to convey that everybody has some misdid somewhere in our business.

And when Microsoft started there was no window OS. It was a PreDos time.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Moral issues aside -- the last few background checks, that I had, were really exhaustive. And they were just to get contractor access... including drug tests, interview of previous contracts, and even a check of my college (to verify diploma) which goes back 20 years!!

For you cheaters out there, was it Clint Eastwood that said "Do you feel lucky?" ...

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

Moral issues aside -- the last few background checks, that I had, were really exhaustive. And they were just to get contractor access... including drug tests, interview of previous contracts, and even a check of my college (to verify diploma) which goes back 20 years!!


Henry, thanks a lot --- thats' kind of answer I am looking for it.

I am not trying to prove that fake CV is required, but wanted to know how background check handled by some companies and what level they goes. But we went in wrong direction by talking about what is wrong and what is right.


For you cheaters out there, was it Clint Eastwood that said "Do you feel lucky?" ...


Here "You" means whom you are referring?.....
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11478
    
  94

Speaking as an Australian who has been hired by 2 different American companies at different points in my career, I can say that in both cases background checks were made in Australia.

I did a quick search on the internet, and quickly found the names of a couple of companies in India who specialize in performing background checks in India (there are similar businesses in most countries). If I was about to go through the trouble and expense of hiring somebody, helping them relocate, getting them visas, paying them a good local salary, etc., then why wouldn't I spend the money to get a local company to perform a background check for me? Seems a very reasonable investment. (Especially since the prices I saw being charged in INR were a tiny fraction of what we would end up paying as a salary).

Regards, Andrew


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Rahul Bhattacharjee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2308
That purely depends on the company that you are going to.Some do and some don't.But even if you get a job by mentioning something fake/wrong in your CV and if you get selected.After joining the company ,always you will have a fear in background of your mind that the company might fire you any moment.
So why to go for such sleepless nights?


Rahul Bhattacharjee
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Nicholas Jordan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 1282
What always strikes me as difficult about this is that the Employer can do 'background checks' on applicants, but one has no way to do decent verification of who will be looking at your datafile.

I had an impostor on my TRW file for 20-30 years, my New Team Lead is highly trained in this field and I engage in split the nuance discussions with Team Lead that would make Impostor Syndrome seem so tame by comparison that it sorta makes the whole WWW look like a red-black tree of a spider-like metaphor it clearly advertises as being. The impostor of which I speak gained access through the authority of "Employer". Maybe bruce schneier has a better grasp than some would like to deal with.

So let's get realistic and work in real world. In a world run by people who do not think, the security is a myth. The logic is not very strong, but it is all that is needed. It does not matter whether Google had anyone sign anything, the people about whom real concerns exist do not care even remotely what anyone signed.

Many of them do care about money. How can one determine this from an 8x14 area of a computer screen. Some people are very skilled at putting up on a screen text, ideas and images that bypass cognitive thought and instill in anyone total confidence in the authority and skills of something they have absolutely no way of coming back on when what'is-name attempts to purchase a 1973 used car off a note lot, using my name. I have been there, it is called Social Engineering, but it in no way is Engineering. ( Is it ? )
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

Rancher,

Thanks for running this thread. Hope more will come and share their thoughts.
Zakir Hosain
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 16
Hi there

Yes surely Fake CV can give you jolt later but if someone with a great knowledge of Java and want to work in some company, but the problem is this guy (in real) has only 6 months of work experience but this particular company requires 2 years of work experience and in A level company. On the other hand this guy is a genius and can work the technical requirements of that particular company. In the end he has to make a Fake CV. Sometimes we have to lie for good things to happen.
I am not supporting FAKE CV but yes how many background check you will do.
If one guy can create anti-virus software in 10 minutes but he has not degree. What you will do? Write him off by saying that he don't have a degree, that's why he can't do it. He is jobless, then one fine day he becomes a hacker and make a virus. Sometimes we could not see the truth by the naked eyes which is focussed on policy and procedures.

Cheers

Zakir Hossain


"The Choices We Make, Dictates Our Life To Lead".
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

Zakir,

What, I am trying to justify again and again that, there are fake CVs for whatever reasons and for that companies' need background check.
And in background check upto what level they go.

So lets' stick to topic instead of again going back in the direction of what is right and what is wrong.
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42275
    
  64
Originally posted by Jignesh Patel:
And in background check upto what level they go.

That's up to the company, and they're not going to tell the applicant how deep they're digging in his case. So I think any answer would just be speculation, and thus be of limited value.


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Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

That's up to the company, and they're not going to tell the applicant how deep they're digging in his case. So I think any answer would just be speculation, and thus be of limited value.


This is a very general answer, we have already seen few detailed answers.
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42275
    
  64
Originally posted by Jignesh Patel:
This is a very general answer, we have already seen few detailed answers.


Yes, because there is no specific answer. One companys check might consist of 5 minutes of googling for the company names mentioned, another company might do the things Henry Wong mentioned (and quite a few more - imagine the things a private detective could dig up). The point is that it's not possible to tell what a company may do from the outside, and since we don't allow discussion of company-specific procedures, I'm not sure for what kind of more specific answer you're looking for?
Michael Ku
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2002
Posts: 510
So let's leave the world of saint and work in real world.



In the real world it is wrong to lie on a job application. What is so hard to understand about that simple fact?
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Originally posted by Michael Ku:

In the real world it is wrong to lie on a job application. What is so hard to understand about that simple fact?



Michael, I totally agree. That statement came off like we are living in some unrealistic world. And lying on the resume is common.

I have never put something on my resume that I didn't do. I have never put something on my resume that I didn't have intimate detail of -- in fact, I removed stuff from my resume because I don't feel comfortable with certain subjects anymore.

Henry
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Here "You" means whom you are referring?.....


By "you", I was referring to cheaters in general... which I hope is very little people here.

And you cheaters know you are...

Henry
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

Yes, because there is no specific answer.


Agreed. Verification ranges from police checks to schools / university checks to googling about the employee etc etc. Depends on the company
Jignesh Patel
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2001
Posts: 626

In the real world it is wrong to lie on a job application. What is so hard to understand about that simple fact?

That statement came off like we are living in some unrealistic world. And lying on the resume is common.


Wonder to see real world is made up of the people who only speaks truth!!! then sure I am in Unrealistic world.

Why Resume only -- from child hood we know we have to say truth, but how many times we did!!!

I have never put something on my resume that I didn't do. I have never put something on my resume that I didn't have intimate detail of -- in fact, I removed stuff from my resume because I don't feel comfortable with certain subjects anymore.


Henry, it is very easy to do after 20 years in the field but not for the people who are at the initial stage of career.
[ October 07, 2007: Message edited by: Jignesh Patel ]
Mike Isano
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 144
Jignesh Patel, you are taking someone else's job with your lying. Then you try to justify it by saying it's the "real world".


I hope you never get a job and leave the computing industry in disgrace.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Henry, it is very easy to do after 20 years in the field but not for the people who are at the initial stage of career.


Well, I have never lied on my resume during my 20 years -- even the "initial stage" of my career. (Sheesh, now I feel old)

Now admittingly, I was cherrypicked. A classmate who did an internship during his sophmore year, knew of my skills, and got me a job during my junior year. This led to a summer job, with a different company. And a job offer as soon as I started my senior year.

I didn't even have a resume til about 2 or 3 years after college.

Henry
 
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subject: background check