This week's book giveaway is in the OCMJEA forum. We're giving away four copies of OCM Java EE 6 Enterprise Architect Exam Guide and have Paul Allen & Joseph Bambara on-line! See this thread for details.
Hia Everybody, I am Rohit. This is my first post here (sorry for the name Billy, it just won't let me use my name, saying it has already been registered.) . I have a genuine and urgent question, which someone like you experienced guys can answer. I have been selected for [Company A].[My first and only interview/job try ever] The package is Rs 2.91 lakhs, though it has been heard that it has been spiked to 3.3 lacs or so. A bond of 1 lacs is also required to be signed for two years. Now I have a nice research background , I have 6 papers published in national journals , have presented some in national and international conferences, a couple of presentation awards,[ E- Commerce] in short I am quite confident of securing an admission in both a PhD and an MS degree from a US university, full scholarship. What I want from life is a comfortable pay in the US, with a good quality of living. My dream job would be a business analyst of a top company like IBM. I have to join the company for at least an year since the next earliest date I can apply for will be an year later.[Also since I still have to take the GRE]. Should I leave the company after an year , pay the bond money and go to the US , or work for 2 years, earn more money and then go? Or should I keep working there and forget about MS and Phds? As I said my only aim is: 1. US residency 2. If I can, a business analyst in a top It company. I cannot opt for a MBA due to the lack of money and preparation. Now I REALLY need some advice about this, since I don’t have too much time left. I asked my lecturer and he said, PhD does not hold a value, and IT sector will be slowed after 5 years in India and what not. Also, if some of you guys have been to the US, tell me if Indians are biased there socially, like white guys not having a beer or a chat with you after job or the white girls looking at you with scorn, I am not TALL [5’7] or blond, so I do think it as a matter of what may be a hindrance to a dream [or at least comfortable] life in the US. All my seniors, etc. only know about jobs and stuff and I am the only one from computers department, who will be going to the US, ever, if I will. So what.......I am confused.....and worried.......
[ October 12, 2007: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ] [ October 12, 2007: Message edited by: Billy Richardson ]
My advice is stay working in India for 1-2 years. Get familiar with whatever technology you plan to use. If it's java, be good at it, know your j2ee stuff, take some certification. When you are ready, come to US to do your master or phd degree. After you graduate, if you have phd you can get a teaching job probably pretty eaisly. But if you plan to just work in company, master degree is enough. And you can either find a job on your own or find a consultant company. Choose a state to go to with lots of consultant company. That will probably be useful.
Whatever company you decide to join, either in India or US that requires you to pay something, you should always do your research to make sure they are good companies. I heard many people get screwed, lost their money and no H1 visa was applied.
Dont break the bond, work for 2 years, its going to be invaluable in your understanding of the software domain, exposure to colleagues who have already been in the game for a while, and a maturing of ideas... Meanwhile, take the opportunities to learn a programming language well, improve yourself in various areas, get certified, etc. If your academics are as good as you say they are, I think you will definitely be able to get into a good university if you have a good GRE score and some work experience. Once you are in the united states, mingle well, and see how life goes, dont worry too much about the future.
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
Thank you both Tony and V Ray. However the thing I am most worried about is that if I work for two years here, I may not want to break a routine , then pack my bags and head off for the US, knowingly that I wont be earning anything for 3 years or so , whilest I am studying. And is it easy to get back to studies after you go on a job for 2 years? And the other thing is that is that indeed profitable to chose spending your two years on a masters degree after a job of two years sacrificing those years you could have as more job experience.
I mean will that master degree coupled with my exp. in the field get me a job as a buusiness anayst? Or is it only for MBAs ?
Lastly, some of you might be living in the US, why do not you give me a slight overview of life there. I am worried that all the struggle that I am putting to make this dream real may not turn out to be a nightnare in disguise....I dont want to be a social misnomer.
First up tell us what you think it is that a business analyst does. Why do you want to be a business analyst ? There is no education criteria to be a business analyst (MBA is preferred though). There are people who work in my company that do not have MBAs but work as business analysts for my client.
Why do you want residence in the US ? Is there some preference for you to stay there ?
like white guys not having a beer or a chat with you after job or the white girls looking at you with scorn, I am not TALL [5�7] or blond, so I do think it as a matter of what may be a hindrance to a dream [or at least comfortable] life in the US
haha. you watch too much TV. Normal people are normal people. Racists are racists. It just is. Depends on who you meet. Most people are sane.
Your options seem to be contradictory here. You want to be a business analyst but you dont want to do an MBA. You want to do a masters or a PHD instead and then focus on the business ? That does not sound like a concrete plan to me (to me atleast).
Work here for 2 years and you will know what the grind of it is. Then decide what you want to be. It took me a year to decide what I wanted. I was able to get it after working towards it. So whatever you decide you want, work towards it and love it. Everything just follows. Good luck
See the problem with coming to US without work experience is that after you graduate you will be suffering a lot. Nobody wants to hire you because you don't have any experience. Degree doesn't mean much, it is only useful for applying for H1 visa. That's it, nothing more. Unless you get a PHD, then it would be useful for teaching jobs. But teaching jobs only, other type of jobs don't apply if you don't have experience.
It's up to you, if you come without experience, you will have to force yourself to learn 2+ years of experience within maybe 5-6 month. I am not sure if you want to go through that kinda of suffering. Of course some people get lucky too, if you have some good connection you can get job right away after you graduate. And if you don't get a job after you graduate within 1 year, you are forced to go back to India or go for PHD. It's complicated and troublesome.
Oh also while your are in university in USA, you can always get the research assistant position where you get instate tuition, enough to pay for rent. So it's not that bad.
Actually to think about it, you keep mentioning you want to get a MBA/business degree. I don't think you can get any job with that in US. To come to usa, you pretty much need a techincal degree and do programming or related IT stuff. I don't think they want to hire business people from foreign countries.
[ October 13, 2007: Message edited by: Tony Smith ] [ October 13, 2007: Message edited by: Tony Smith ]
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
To Mr.John Meyers, Why cant I get an MBA: I never knew that I would need an MBA in my first year at college. I was pretty engrossed in research stuff, Someone in an education fair told me that it was a pretty nice way to expect a scholarship in the USA as PhDs are more often selected for grants from universities. Fundings flows easily in research stuff. And the reason I am so stuck up with the scholarship question is that leave alone affording the expenses for the US, to make ends meet I am living in a 8 by 8 feet room to cut on the expenses. I will have to work atleast an year too if I want to afford my expenses for insurance and travel, which the scholarship won't cover. So as MBA degrees dont come with full scholarships, and I cant really take a loan, my only bet is on a research degree, and this screnio is what I have worked for the last three years. I must say that in the interviews too, they were pretty impressed with my reserch and communication skills. I feel I would do much better at MBA but I cant opt for it due to financial reasons.
Why i wanna be a business analyst?: In my first year, I read a book on IT careers. I get the idea that, being a business analyst, you have kinda the job where you travel frequently to far off countries, like in business suites, and kinda in a corporate enviornment.And I am all corporate type of stuff. Concerning racism: I feel then, perhaps I have only met the wrong guys. Barring one or two americans, the rest seemed to into their own egos and too nosy. But the first one I met, I guess gave me my first impression, joe was an absolute delight. I was 14 then and the guy seemed to me much more friendlier than I expected. If it would not be for my schoolteachers around, we might have had a beer. Why I want to go to US: An open enviornment, free from relationship type of stuff in india. Money good, yes , but mainly its the quality of life in US that I am attracted to, not to mention, that I have a tendency to fall for white "sweet" girls real easy. Those I have met, seemed to be dreamy from across the other side of the fence atleast.
So John, I guess you can catchup with what life is when you have dreams and only dreams by your side, no real money. If I sounded a bit nosy or harsh in this entire conversation, I guess you wont mind. I just said what I thought.
Thanks for taking out the time to reply though. Would you like to tell me a bit about you.
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
To Mr.Tony Smith,
Ging to Us without Work Experience: Tony, I think that when I can get a job in my first interview 18 months before completion of the degree which is just my bachleor's, why cant I get one after a masters after a much better university in the US, maybe after a lot more interviews though? I am fresher without experience at the moment as well.[ Just my way of thinking, I know I haven't see the real world though]. I do not want to come to the US without knowing my future, not like one leg in India and one in the US, not because I want to get married or have a family, but because I need to know where i would be actually spending my life... " As you said It's up to you, if you come without experience, you will have to force yourself to learn 2+ years of experience within maybe 5-6 month." How can one get that experience in 6 months. Do you mean an interprenship? Also tell me what when you said, by having a connection, I can get a job easily, Did you by connection, meant that ,the clicking at the time of the iinterview or like having contacts with the right people?
And concerning the type of degree: Are not PhDs also needed in the R&D departments?I mean is being a Phd only meant for being a teacher? Also, If you Know PLEASE tell me the criteria for a business analyst.
I feel I am more inclined to a business degree, but can't just afford one at the moment. I cant see myself working as a company employee for the rest of my life and ultimately I will step up to start my own business, whenever I have the resources though.I want that to happen before I am too old to start one, I am 22 at the moment, and I feel the right moment may be lost till I am 30.
I know I might sound like a bit hasty though, but I was really worried[I am]. What I have garnered now is: 1. Two yrs. of job here. 2. Masters degree/PhD/ Job In the US. 3. Then see what I can do.
But I still wanna know the criteria of a business analyst.
Thanks Tony. Would you like to share a bit about you. Would love know what goes on inside the industry.
Can I IM you on yahoo sometime? If yes, Whats it, If you dont feel like , I apologize sincerely.
Just an off the topic question. Is 5'7 to short in the US for guys? I dont see too tall girls here. Answer if you like, else neglect.
Sincere Thanks Again. Rohit
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
That's a huge paragraph you posted, I will not answer evreything, but few key points for you:
"Tony, I think that when I can get a job in my first interview 18 months before completion of the degree which is just my bachleor's, why cant I get one after a masters after a much better university in the US."
Getting a job in your home country is VERY VERY different than getting a job in USA. You have to know this right now! In USA, they want to save jobs for their own people, for citizens only. You can start searching for jobs in USA right now in the internet, they would often say, "citizen or green card holder only. No H1bs please." To get a job in USA is very very difficult because we are foreigner and don't have residency status. Specially if you don't have work experience, getting a job is nearly impossible for a foreigner. Unless you are lucky.
"How can one get that experience in 6 months." You can't, all I was saying is that you have to study real hard after you graduated, so you have to know as much as people who already work 3-4 years in the industry. Which is equal to a lot of suffering, and sometimes lying on your resume.
"Are not PhDs also needed in the R&D departments?" I don't know, I am not familiar with how business degree work.
"by having a connection, I can get a job easily, Did you by connection," I mean know some people in high places. If you have friends who are managers or know some friend in companies, then some times they can help you get a job. But it's only for lucky few people, who knows right people at right time. This doesn't apply to most people.
So as MBA degrees dont come with full scholarships,
So here's what you can do. Work here for a year or two. Then travel to the US on an onsite opportunity for a year or two and then take a MBA if possible after 4 years. If that is an option. An MBA will help only if you have the experience to back it.
I get the idea that, being a business analyst, you have kinda the job where you travel frequently to far off countries, like in business suites, and kinda in a corporate enviornment
My business analyst is not in a business suit. She just communicates with the users about what they want and lets me know. Different companies offer different types of responsibilities for the same job. A business culture can be very cunning and hostile and politics plays a good part. Not to say that technical lines have less politics, but from what I have seen business/managerial lines require that you have very good communication skills and the ability to handle different types of people. You still do not know what it is that a business analyst does. It takes about 4 years of experience before they will entrust that job to you and assign you that role.
An open enviornment, free from relationship type of stuff in india. I have a tendency to fall for white "sweet" girls real easy.
Yikes. Well let me give you a little warning there. Not everything that looks sweet is sweet. Dont go there and catch a STD
So John, I guess you can catchup with what life is when you have dreams and only dreams by your side, no real money.
haha. I am living a life. Its good. And what a dream is depends on your definition of dreams. I have dreams almost every night