Knocked out in written programming test

[A Bhattacharya]

I got an interview call with one of the biggest companies. A number of candidates were seated in a room and were given a question sheet with some programming questions, to be solved in an hour. Towards the end I discovered some logical errors in the code didn't have time to correct them. Also I realized that a particular kind of input would make my program fail. Nevertheless I was satisfied that the thinking process was nicely captured. I almost expected to be shortlisted but I wasn't. I could not almost believe it. The failed candidates just had to leave.
I don't think it is fair; what do you think?

[Henry Wong]

The failed candidates just had to leave.
I don't think it is fair; what do you think?

The first rounds are never fair -- there are just too many people to be culled. I think it is best to consider it a learning exercise and move on.

Henry

[Mark Herschberg]

What's not fair about it? Everyone was given the same test and the same time in which to do it.

--Mark

[A Bhattacharya]

I'm not saying it is not fair citing dissimilar testing environmnts given to candidates (which is not the case). It is unfair not to select me for some silly error which I would have definitely come across and fixed in a realworld programming environment even if it meant a few more minutes extra. Also later I realized I could have failed because I did not realize an unstated premise in the question though it was inferrable from the rest of the question. This caused me to program entirely differently and in more complex way, consuming more time, and unfortunately failing to fulfill the requirement. There was no need to test English comprehension skills here; it could have been stated more explicitly in the question without any harm to judging programming ability.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:
There was no need to test English comprehension skills here; it could have been stated more explicitly in the question without any harm to judging programming ability.

Why not? Isn't English comprehension part of the job? A programming test often tests more than just programming. It can test understanding, syntax, logic, test cases, style, etc.

[Rambo Prasad]

I'm not saying it is not fair citing dissimilar testing environmnts given to candidates (which is not the case). It is unfair not to select me for some silly error which I would have definitely come across and fixed in a realworld programming environment even if it meant a few more minutes extra. Also later I realized I could have failed because I did not realize an unstated premise in the question though it was inferrable from the rest of the question. This caused me to program entirely differently and in more complex way, consuming more time, and unfortunately failing to fulfill the requirement. There was no need to test English comprehension skills here; it could have been stated more explicitly in the question without any harm to judging programming ability.

If you are really serious about a specific company don't ever go for mass walkins...It is better to go the referral route....

[Kj Reddy]

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:

I don't think it is fair; what do you think?

I am sure that many of the written tests I faced are not a good instrument to understand about technical skills of a person.

[Mark Herschberg]

There's still nothing unfair about any of this.

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:
It is unfair not to select me for some silly error which I would have definitely come across and fixed in a realworld programming environment even if it meant a few more minutes extra.

Calling this unfair is frankly utterly wrong for a variety of reasons. By that logic everyone in grade school or college can say to the professor, "well if I had more time I would have gotten it right, therefore change my C to an A?" It's also unclear to me how the company would know that with a few more minutes time you would have gotten it right. I can give a calculus test to me 6 year old nephew and give him hours to do it, but he simply can't. Tests are used to see how well you do with information recollection and problem solving; no one claims they are the perfect method of selecting the best candidate, but they are a cost effective one.

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:
Also later I realized I could have failed because I did not realize an unstated premise in the question though it was inferrable from the rest of the question. This caused me to program entirely differently and in more complex way, consuming more time, and unfortunately failing to fulfill the requirement. There was no need to test English comprehension skills here; it could have been stated more explicitly in the question without any harm to judging programming ability.

So when requirements are unclear and programmers code up the wrong software, I'm sure after the CEO explains it to the customers they'll understand and be happy to pay full price for the wrong software anyway, after all, everyone's human. As Jeanne pointed out, English (or whatever language the company uses) is party of software development. Heck, I've never seen a set of perfect requirements; there is almost always an unstated premise (and it's not always inferable from the rest of the specification). Programmers who can work in such situations are much more valuable than ones who can't. Perhaps this was intentional and part of the test.


Ultimately, if you think a company doesn't hire people well, then you should avoid that company, as they will likely not get the best people, and who wants to work with inferior people?



--Mark
[ January 07, 2008: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ]

[Ulf Dittmer]

Large companies receive lots of applications; they can't (or won't) take the time to evaluate every candidate individually in detail. Standardized tests like this are a way to get the number of candidates down to a manageable level. It's possible that some suitable candidates are weeded out by the process, but that's acceptable to the company since more than enough candidates remain. That may sound unfair to you, but it's a valid strategy for the company to pursue.

[Oscar Johansson]

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:
I got an interview call with one of the biggest companies. A number of candidates were seated in a room and were given a question sheet with some programming questions, to be solved in an hour. Towards the end I discovered some logical errors in the code didn't have time to correct them. Also I realized that a particular kind of input would make my program fail. Nevertheless I was satisfied that the thinking process was nicely captured. I almost expected to be shortlisted but I wasn't. I could not almost believe it. The failed candidates just had to leave.
I don't think it is fair; what do you think?

Hi,

Mind revealing which company?

Cheers!

[Ben Souther]

Originally posted by Onkar Joshi:
... Mind revealing which company? ...

We don't do that here.
See:
https://coderanch.com/t/31504/Jobs/careers/Guidelines-Job-Discussion
for more information.

[Jignesh Patel]

Originally posted by Henry Wong:


The first rounds are never fair -- there are just too many people to be culled. I think it is best to consider it a learning exercise and move on.

Henry

I think upto some extent this is true.
One of the famous company of US asked me to solve n-queen problem. I can think that, they are just trying make interview very difficult to prove that they are good company.

[arulk pillai]

We are living in a very competitive world and take it as a good learning experience and move forward. Take these setbacks as the motivation & stepping stones to succeed................

[Devesh H Rao]

Originally posted by A Bhattacharya:
There was no need to test English comprehension skills here; it could have been stated more explicitly in the question without any harm to judging programming ability.

One of the mandatory skills for interviewing is to look for comprehension skills of a person. A fresher may not be good in coding, that is expected but if the person is good enough to understand what is asked of him/her and what is told to the person they have a better chance to grow. If i have to spoonfeed someone by being explicit to the point of writing down each and every point in detail for a code to be written, i could write the code myself maybe in better time.

The question paper was not wrongly framed as assumed by you, it was meant to be that way.

Not meaning to be harsh, but let it be a learning for you, so that, in your next test you pay more attention to what's being asked of you and if you are good at programming, which translates to being good in logic and analytics combined with good comprehension, you will have a winner on your hands.
[ January 12, 2008: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]

[Billy Tsai]

what was the content of the programming test?
what kind of questions were in the test?