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Which Country is best to Enjoy/Save�.

Suresh Kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Posts: 14
HI,
As we know the US Dollar value is getting down, I believe going to US will not make us save much. I think EURO and POUNDS are in the stable place and it also a good place to live.
Can you share your suggestion which is the best place to go for save money and to enjoy life.
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
In Tokyo(Japan), Except food( Cooking myself ), I am getting everything what you wrote above.


Lack of will power has caused more failure than lack of intelligence or ability.
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arulk pillai
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3216
Do you need to know Japanese to work there? Australia is not bad either. Australian dollar is pretty strong as well. All depends on your salary, where you find your accomadation, willingness to travel longer distance, willingess to share etc.


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Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
Originally posted by arulk pillai:
Do you need to know Japanese to work there?


I am lazy, More than 8 months gone here and i have not learned a bit of Japanese.
Marko Kencheto
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 33
it is very strange question, because each person can only enjoy if it will find something that is absent in its life (think so): it look like the wheel with many same spokes (from the book of Chuck Noris); each spoke can means some field of life, if somewhere the spoke too short or long, it is allready not wheel... it is joke to weekend!!! in pinnochio the was country for lazy childrens
[ February 08, 2008: Message edited by: sergey poluchaevskiy ]
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
I really do have something important missing in life thats why I ended up in another country but I found out somethings are the same everywhere in the world


BEA 8.1 Certified Administrator, IBM Certified Solution Developer For XML 1.1 and Related Technologies, SCJP, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCDJWS, SCJD, SCEA,
Oracle Certified Master Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8898

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
I really do have something important missing in life thats why I ended up in another country but I found out somethings are the same everywhere in the world


what are those things ?


Groovy
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
politics, red tapes and unwillingness to invest in an employee only want to use the employee to make money. Use lies and deceptions to win projects.
Manish Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 160
Product companies pays salary in this range.
Not sure about the service companies
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
Originally posted by Manisha Singh:
Product companies pays salary in this range.
Not sure about the service companies


Is it related to this post anyway?
Marko Kencheto
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 33
It was perhaps (Manish Singh) out of 'mind' to change the topic (everywhere there are exceptions perhaps)...
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
India.

You get every enjoyment at low price and so more savings - it's just my opinion.
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
Originally posted by ankur rathi:
India.

You get every enjoyment at low price and so more savings - it's just my opinion.


True!! But low salary too
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
Originally posted by Sunil Kumar Gupta:


True!! But low salary too


Is it? How much we need now?
Dmitri Christo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 81
I don't mean to generalize, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't help but noticing it is mostly fellow ranchers from India that are concerned with immigration or moving to a new country in general looking for jobs and "saving" money.

Just wondering why wouldn't you want to stay and try to prosper in India while supporting your local economy that is growing so fast (double digits every year)?

Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?
Marko Kencheto
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 33
it is perhaps migration of culture; in other case nobody would ever learn the culture of other country, they would be quite isolated: if they would have everything 'good' in their borders...
Dmitri Christo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 81
I am not sure it is about learning a new culture. Then why not just travel to a new place every year?

I was only uncertain why choose to immigrate instead of participating in their local, rapidly growing economy where the rest of the world is investing in.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Suresh Kumar:
As we know the US Dollar value is getting down, I believe going to US will not make us save much.


These two statements are, of course, unrelated. The declining value of the dollar simply means overseas goods cost more, but within the US itself goods remain priced relative to one another so that the cost of living doesn't change much.

There is some inflation particularly in energy and food currently because of the rising price of gas, but since gas is traded in dollars, it doesn't matter in what country you live, the impact is the same.

--Mark
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 15641
    
  15

Originally posted by Dmitri Christo:
I don't mean to generalize, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't help but noticing it is mostly fellow ranchers from India that are concerned with immigration or moving to a new country in general looking for jobs and "saving" money.

Just wondering why wouldn't you want to stay and try to prosper in India while supporting your local economy that is growing so fast (double digits every year)?

Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?


"Saving" money isn't really what everyone's thinking of. The benefit of moving from India is that thanks to salary and cost-of-living differentials, you can amass what amounts to a tidy fortune in a few years by working the the US or Europe and then retire in luxury back home in India.

Or at least that's the theory. If Indian inflation continues, then that tidy fortune might not be so tidy in a few years. It's not just salaries that have been rising in Bangalore - rents are going up as well.

And, of course, there's another "gotcha". A lot of Indians move to the US and decide they like it enough to stay, thus negating much of that "saving", thanks to the higher cost of living.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Dmitri Christo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 81
That is of course understandable. It also great to have global perspectives and seek opportunities internationally, and this forum supports that.

I could be wrong, but categorizing/labeling countries like that (as the title of the post suggest) reminds me of someone who is prospecting for precious metals, anxious not to be left behind in the next gold rush. Discarding countries as not-good-to save, and voting others as better to make money. I'm wondering how much different can this be from company-specific talk which is not allowed in here? - But I know everything is a point of view.

Indian socio-economics might be the cause of this (not sure), but seems discussions like that come originate mostly (or exclusively) from fellow ranchers from India. So perhaps this might be a cultured mind-set after all.
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1871
Correct.Immigration used to happen since 60s but was limited to doctors/dentists etc.More than saving ,immigration was considered moving socially upwards.There is another 'class' desperate to move outside India by any means.Cab drivers/shop/restaurant owners fall in this category.Thats mainly illegal immigration.
Large scale immigration started from early 90s when H1B was introduced.
During this decade $ was rising too so h1B visa became like a lottery to better quality of life+decent bank balance with addition of social upwardness.Y2K attracted large H1B crowd where many body shops helped people to immigrate and later Dotcom era people flew in thousands.
"Are you still in India?"I remember one friend asked me.
It might be easier to get Java/dotNet job in India than Europe/US but other factors such as rising inflation,traffic and problems in basic amenities give thought to people to immigrate.


MH
p anish
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 32
This is some of my view to Dimitro's questions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mean to generalize, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't help but noticing it is mostly fellow ranchers from India that are concerned with immigration or moving to a new country in general looking for jobs and "saving" money.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why European people didn't stay in Europe and try to prosper Europe instead of migrating to contries like Australia and Americas?.Migration is not something new.Its happening for centuries.Its always for better living standard.Not to offend anybody if you are an American you should have asked your parents the same question.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why countries stop inviting migrant people?.Why is US still having an H1B program and why UK,Australia,Canada etc have skilled migrant programs?I think the questions will be better answered if you ask your local authorities why they allow migrant workers.Is there anything wrong in accepting such invitations and work for the improvement of that country.
India is 1.1 billion people country and I don't think more than .1 percentage of indians trying to migrate to other counties.So it will be utterly wrong to assume that all young indian thinks about migration.

Also please note that people from developed countries are also there in the same boat.Check out this link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6210358.stm
Sonny Gill
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 02, 2002
Posts: 1211

Originally posted by Dmitri Christo:

Just wondering why wouldn't you want to stay and try to prosper in India while supporting your local economy that is growing so fast (double digits every year)?

Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?


Re 1: There can be significant savings when you are earning in dollars and saving it to move back to India, as Tim pointed out.
But there are other reasons as well, for example, lack of infrastructure in India, corruption, lack of certain kinds of opportunities, unacceptable societal norms. All of these don't go away (and won't anytime soon) just because the economy is growing.

Immigration to US/Europe/Australia used to be a "goal in life" for many Indians, but it is becoming less and less so especially among young highly qualified people.

Notice that I didn't say 'highly educated', there are hundreds thousands of 'highly educated' young people in India for whom opportunities are still better in more developed countries.

Also, consider that just because you find many such posts by Indians does not mean that the Indians are more interested in migrating compared to another group, it just means that they are more likely to discuss such matters on this forum .
That is probably a cultural difference. You will notice that they are also more likely to discuss job offers, salaries, offered salaries etc., whereas you might only discuss those with personal friends or anonymously, if at all.


The future is here. It's just not evenly distributed yet. - William Gibson
Consultant @ Xebia. Sonny Gill Tweets
Hendy Setyo Mulyo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2004
Posts: 219

So far you guys only talk about migration to US, UK, Europe or Australia.. How about Singapore? Can it be compared with US/UK/Europe/Aussie?


Hendy Setyo Mulyo
SCJP 1.4 (95%), SCWCD 1.4 (94%)
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
Originally posted by Dmitri Christo:

Just wondering why wouldn't you want to stay and try to prosper in India while supporting your local economy that is growing so fast (double digits every year)?

Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?


Some of the reason to explore opportunities outside India are...

1.It could widen your horizon and open your eyes to potential business opportunities..For example one of my relative went to US as a software guy but then became an entrepreneur.He opened a chain of restaurants..Another friend went to US as a techie but then quit his job to start an export/import granite business..

2.Another reason is the saving potential..Unlike US or UK which has a very good social security system India does not have a social security structure..Lack of social security unlike usa push indians for saving.in usa if one declare himself financially bankrupt then its government's responsibility to give some allowance and healthcare..But in India the government will not do anything..So people save for a better future..Now working abroad in US or a western country obviously helps save more money..For example after expenses a techie(bachelor) in India might save Rs.30,000 but he would save $2000 working in US...$2000 is roughly Rs80,000..This is around 2 times more than the average Indian saving..

3.Only a little minority go abroad with the intention of permanently settling there..But otherwise the majority go there with the intention of returning back after some years after accumulating considerable wealth.

Is immigration a mind-set or a "goal in life" for young Indians (in IT or other fields)?


Immigration is neither a goal or a mindset as you have wrongly mistaken....But making money and building a considerable wealth is the goal for many...Immigration is perceived as a channel to reach the objective...

Some people go abroad attracted by the opportunities,life style and infrastructure there,but a considerable number also return back home because after some years they realize that life here in India is more fulfilling....In fact a considerable number of people who went in search of greener opportunity some years back are returning back to India...
[ April 19, 2008: Message edited by: Rambo Prasad ]

Helping hands are much better than the praying lips
Rambo Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
I read an interesting article about Denmark..I thought I would share it here..

They are the happiest people on earth, but for reasons we would have never imagined..

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth

http://i.abcnews.com/2020/Story?id=4086092&page=1

High Taxes leading to equality of incomes leading to lack of class consciousness.. - The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. Those high taxes have another effect. Since a banker can end up taking home as much money as an artist, people don't chose careers based on income or status. "They have this thing called 'Jante-lov,' which essentially says, 'You're no better then anybody else,'" said Buettner. "A garbage man can live in a middle-class neighborhood and hold his head high."

..leading to garbage men earning as much as bankers & princes working as carpenter's apprentices.. - Indeed, garbage man Jan Dion says he's an eight out of 10 in terms of happiness. He said he doesn't mind collecting garbage for a living, because he works just five hours in the morning and then can spend the rest of the day at home with family or coaching his daughter's handball team. Dion says no one judges his choice of career, and he actually loves what he does because he has many friends along his route. It makes him happy when he sees the children who wave to him and the old ladies who bring him cups of coffee.

Bourbon is another example of Denmark's unusual social structure, because he happens to be a prince. Descended from a Danish king and related to the royal houses of both Spain and France, Bourbon has chosen to be a carpenter's apprentice, and he rarely discusses his lineage with anyone. Not even with potential dates when he's out on the town.

..leading to a post consumerism society with high level of trust... - And Denmark is what is called a "post consumerist" society. People have nice things, but shopping and consuming is not a top priority. Even the advertising is often understated. Along with less emphasis on "stuff," and a strong social fabric, Danes also display an amazing level of trust in each other, and their government

..and bikes rides - Danes can all afford cars, but they choose bikes -- simple, economical, nonpolluting machines that show no status and help keep people fit.


So may be you can also consider Denmark..
[ April 24, 2008: Message edited by: Rambo Prasad ]
 
 
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