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Knowledge vs Years of experience

amit marathe
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 6
Hi guys,
Currently i am a small company in mumbai but with good knowledge of Java,J2EE but getting paid below . I am SCJP 5 and SCWCD 5 with 1.5 years of exp specialization in struts. Worked on some of really challenging and interesting projects and lots of 3rd party API's.
My question is ....doesn't industry appreciate good knowledge or it just requires number of years of experience. Please let me know of some good companies who appreciates good knowledge and doesn't mind paying them.
And also what kind of package can i ask for ? am also willing to relocate in pune.

Regards,
Amit Marathe
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Unless you work for Govt. companies every employer in IT looks for skills and experience.For big IT companies in India as your experience goes up,you are supposed to possess and acquire Project management skills. Medium sized companies with Indian clientele look for technical skills with lesser emphasis on project management.So you need to target those companies.Payment might be lesser(but definitely not more!!) than big IT companies.


MH
Manish Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 160
I am aware of companies paying upto 13L for one year experience in India.
Isn't it answer your question that you can use your skill to get very high salary.

The Data Structures ,Algorithms , Problem Solving skills are a much more important than the language(Read Java, .Net or framework) knowledge
Abdul Kader
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 11, 2007
Posts: 115
Yes I do agree with "Manisha Singh",we can say as a Software Engineer not reading java or .Net....

The Software Engineer are the people who have strong knowledge in data structure / algorithms / compilers... They are the real software people.

Most of the people in India, are thinking that their is nothing to learn in computer science Engineering, they believe that if they read java/ .net outside they believe them as a Software Engineer and they are equal to computer Science Engineers


As Computer Science Engineers, it really hurts me that when people feels Computer Science is NOTHING

People who works in more high level abstract coding (includes me),are they Software Engineers ???.. (please think this for 2 min and say to your self yes or no).

For me i am NOT a Software Engineer yet (Even though i have a Engineer degree in Computer Science ) .

Share Your thoughts, please forgive me if this hurts you...
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
To me, experience is quite different from knowledge. I guess you could say that experience is knowledge that has been validated by applying the knowledge in practice. That kind of experience is without question very valuable.

Having said that, it's certainly naive to measure experience in years (or any other time frame). It's not hard to imagine someone doing the same for years, not having to validate his knowledge against new situations. That person wouldn't be very experienced by my standards, now matter how long he possesses his knowledge.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Alaa Nassef
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 460
Ilja, I agree with you that experience should not be measured in years, nor even with education degree. I once interviewed a developer with a low number of working years, and his degree was not computer science nor computer engineering, but it was in commerce! This person proved to be better than all other candidates with a more relative education and more experience (in term of years).

The thing is that companies have to have some kind of measure so that to be able to choose appropriate candidates for an interview. Let's say that it's statistically know that an average person with an average education and an average IQ should gain the proper experience for a certain position by doing average work for 3 years. There might be some people who have a better IQ, had better education and worked at better jobs that made them gain this experience in 18 months. The problem here is that the company will get thousands of CVs when it advertises for a job, and interviewing everyone would be impossible. This is why large companies put a number of years criteria to reduce the number of people from which some are going to be selected for an interview.


Visit my blog: http://jnassef.blogspot.com/
arulk pillai
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3219
IMHO, knowledge is only knowing what to do or how to go about but does not mean that you know where to apply and how to get things done or how to produce good results or add value. Skills and experience are vital. Some have real 5 years worth of experience while others have 1 year repeated 5 times. So the best way to tell your prospective employer that you are a skillful (both technical & soft skills) candidate who has solid 2 year experience is via an effective skill based resume.

No matter how talented/skillful you are, if you cannot market your skills effectively to your prospective employer then you are not likely to standout from your competition who may be less qualified than you are.

Piling up on certifications alone are not going to make you a better candidate. You need to highlight your soft skills & achievements from your work experience in your resume. Employers are more interested in well rounded candidates than just academic ones. You need to prove that you are a well rounded contributor with good technical skills.


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Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by amit marathe:
My question is ....doesn't industry appreciate good knowledge or it just requires number of years of experience.


It's not an either-or question. That's like asking if women like caring men or just handsome ones.

Personally I put intelligence first, followed by communication skills. For me, capability does play a role, but to some extent (not all of it) I don't care where the capability came from. That is to say, I don't care if one candidate spent 2 years learning and working in Java and is ready for a role whereas another spent 30 years, so long as both are ready for the role.

It's interesting to note that the code war studies in Peopleware discovered that after 6 months of experience with a language there was no discernible difference in capability (as measured by their specific type of testing) based on experience with a technology.

That said, some companies do require fixed knowledge and/or experience. Generally speaking the want X years of experience for a role. This is mostly because if 80-90% of the people who would qualify have X or more years of experience it's often not worth the effort to look at the remaining 10-20%, so they filter by experience. Likewise technology knowledge can be used the same way.

It may also be the case that the experience is desired for experience sake. You can show me someone who has memorized a book about a particular technology but I won't call them an expert just for that. I'll hire people as an expert because not only do they know the book, but they know what's not in the book, they know where to find new answers (and have credibility in those communities to get answers), they know the subtle undocumented features, they know the things you can only really learn by having done it. (The US military has the reputation that while it has spent hundreds of billions of dollars developing training programs, often the practical skills come from actually being in the field.) Now it is true that some people will pick this up faster than others, but still there is something to be said for having done it. I can hire supersharp guys, but they just won't get the subtleties until they walk through and step on the landmines; with an experienced guy I can avoid that.

--Mark
Alaa Nassef
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 460
Originally posted by arulk pillai:
No matter how talented/skillful you are, if you cannot market your skills effectively to your prospective employer then you are not likely to standout from your competition who may be less qualified than you are.

Piling up on certifications alone are not going to make you a better candidate. You need to highlight your soft skills & achievements from your work experience in your resume. Employers are more interested in well rounded candidates than just academic ones. You need to prove that you are a well rounded contributor with good technical skills.


I would like here to direct you to Arluk's Java/J2EE CV guide and his Java/J2EE sample CV. They can both be found on his page (see his signature) on lulu.com.
amit marathe
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 6
thank you guys for your thoughts ..... i somewhat agree with you ......but when you talk about hands on experience verses theoretical ..... am all hands on .... i picked up struts in just a month .....worked on some really complex and major projects related to ERP and AI based .... tried out hibernate, spring and JSF .... so skills or logic is never an issue ..... but one should even get an opportunity to show your skills and get rewarded ......which i don't see .....good to know manisha that there are some companies who appreciate it ... hope to hear from them soon ...... got some good pointers though ...thanks
Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

Hey Mark
It's not an either-or question. That's like asking if women like caring men or just handsome ones.

you cracked me up , man.


Back to Java , again.
Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


It's not an either-or question. That's like asking if women like caring men or just handsome ones.

--Mark


Hahaha, you cracked me up.

ooops ,sorry.
 
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