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Swing and other Guis importance for job

Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

I don't want to be desktop application developer or gui graphic developer.
Because I love J2ee stuff,oracle database and perl/c/c++(only system automation and network programming).

I perceive J2se has been badly beaten by C# and their siblings.
Do I really need to know swing and other gui framework for successful career ?

I don't think so because my future will be J2ee and c++ network programming
and DBA roles.

I think I am the only person here who hates Swing. LOL

What do you guys say?

please guide me.

best regards,
omi
[ September 05, 2008: Message edited by: omi sharma ]

Back to Java , again.
Joe Ess
Bartender

Joined: Oct 29, 2001
Posts: 8915
    
    8

I don't think so because my future will be J2ee and c++ network programming and DBA roles.


If you don't see a use for a GUI in those roles, you aren't using your imagination. For example, something horrible happened with an application I maintain that corrupted several thousand database records. I could go into the database and correct each record myself using SQL but instead I whipped up a Swing app with a couple of screens to allow a couple of non-technical people fix the problem with a few clicks. I saved myself a day or two of tedious work and the company a lot of money.


"blabbing like a narcissistic fool with a superiority complex" ~ N.A.
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Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

I was confused and that's why I created the topic.

thanks brother for opening my eyes.

but I want to hear more stories about swing.

best regards,
omi
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42047
    
  64
I would challenge the notion that Java GUI apps are "badly beaten". There are a whole lot fewer of them, to be sure. And few of those that do exist are commercial apps.

But -like Joe- I see a fair number of Java GUI apps inside of companies. If there's a chance that an app ever needs to run on OS X or Linux, then coding it in Java is a good choice. Plus, you'd be widening the arsenal of tools you have at your disposal to squash a problem; Joe gives a good example of when that might come in handy.

Having said that, you're certainly right that -compared to server-side Java- client-side Java is not a smart strategic career move. But I actually find myself using Swing for some of my private applications that I only use myself (or maybe some friends of mine). Coding Swing is a nice change of pace from coding JEE.


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Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

Conclusion : Swing is better for personal use and very rare application
that requires portability.So I need not bother to obsess with it and should
concentrate on J2EE and database stuffs.

Note:I have created above conclusion for my career and I do not mean
to hurt the feelings of swing lovers.

thanks for your time precious solution.

best regards,
omi
Chen Venkat
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 27
Well.. I also don't like Swings much.. but unfortunately I do swing programming for my day to day job Well lots of front office trading applications in investment banks still use to create the trader terminals for traders! And I am in this area.
Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

Another reason of using Java client side is Java is free.

Any experienced developer can fix the bug in Java but MS products are
required Vendor support.We all have to send bug report and wait for
the vendor to fix it.

You have to buy license of MS products to launch our softwares that means
more cost involvement.

Most of people says they see fewer products written in Java.I think
this is just a misconception because people often search for multimedia,
softwares,converters,game utilities which are basically written in c++ and
the rest of smalls software are RAD applications ,written in VB OR C#.

They ignore the Java applets and distributed applications which are
chiefly written in Java.

Java is not suitable for building numeric and scientific application because
Java has no support for multi-array and operator-overloading.The bigest
disadvantage and the same time advantage of Java is Java does not support
low level features.

So c++ wins in both area.

Simply ,Java is unbeatable in server-side.

any comment will be welcome.

best regards,
omi
Yves Zoundi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Posts: 47
At my previous job, I was doing lots of Swing programming. We were using Java Web Start to distribute the Swing applications. If someone was to be hired, he would be asked about his Swing experience, mostly to be able to support applications and time to time enhance them.

I don't often see a job offer with the title "Java Swing Developer", even when a company does some swing development. They are usually looking for someone who knows Swing, some other areas of Java and couple of frameworks(Web development, Database, etc.).

Swing is not dead and is still used in many companies to an extent, but most business do more Web development, library development, than Swing programming.


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Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42047
    
  64
Most of people says they see fewer products written in Java. I think
this is just a misconception ... They ignore the Java applets and distributed applications which are chiefly written in Java.

I see very few productized applets, and even fewer productized distributed applications (in Java or otherwsie), so I'd say the first sentence is spot on.

Java is not suitable for building numeric and scientific application because Java has no support for multi-array and operator-overloading.

The conclusion doesn't really follow from the premise. While there are languages better suited for numerical calculations (like Fortran-90), lack of operator overloading (which isn't used by most calculations) isn't holding Java back. The language can be used -and is being used- for large-scale numerical computations, and there are all kinds of libraries that support it (Commons Math, JSci, Colt, IMSL, Visual Numerics, ...). See this article for some discussion on the topic.
Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

You both are more experienced than me so you guys surely know
what are you talking about it.

I put the post here based on articles and forums I have read.

More over I wanted to gain some knowledge and I got it thanks for replies.

I heard Java is going to have support of multi-array and operator-overloading like features.By any chance ,Java gonna have pattern matching operators like Perl in future.

Java's Native API is becoming powerful every second year,Now it has
support for Perl,Ruby,Assembly language other than c/c++.

is there anything else?

best regards,
omi
[ September 09, 2008: Message edited by: omi sharma ]
Chen Venkat
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 27
Java has lots of good packages for numerical and financial calculations... we do all sorts of financial modelling, black and scholes , quantitative stuff and pricing algos on Java!
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16101
    
  21

Swing may not be the most popular thing out there, but it's far from useless or dead.

In 2000 I created a J2EE development aid I called the EJBWizard. Originally it was a GUI app designed to browse databases and construct the code and config files for JOnAS EJBs. In later years I added templates to do likewise for other servers such as WebLogic and to support newer EJB standards. More recently I've used it to generate Hibernate and JPA files and even Python/Django stuff. And people complain because I "waste time" making my apps flexible. :roll:

If you haven't used the Freemind or Poseidon tools, you're missing some useful additions to your development kit. Poseidon is based on the open-source ArgoUML from tigris.org (also developers for Subversion), but for the money you buy a more polished product - and, of course, paid product support.

A very popular J2EE system with graphical tools is the Pentaho Business Intelligence suite, although like Eclipse, they use SWT instead of Swing for their GUI design tools. It's still a 100% Java GUI, though.

Last, but I hope not least, is the opensource project I'm working on (http://mtsdraw.mousetech.com). This is an attempt to create a more acceptable object-oriented graphical design tool like Microsoft's Visio, but - since it's in "Write Once, Run Anywhere" Java, it's expected to work on other OS's than Windows and even other desktop environments (its Linux competitors are usually tied to the Gnome or KDE desktop toolkits).
[ September 09, 2008: Message edited by: Tim Holloway ]

Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Bobby Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 574
    
    1

thanks Tim for your reply and information.

You guys have changed the way I looked into the Swing.

Today I learn that we can create custom look and feel in Swings by using
images and java2d,Java is pretty good for numerical computing(but harder way)
and Swing is not dead, of course.

best regards,
omi
 
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