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moderation issue [was: what is the highest score in SCEA5 so far]

Galaxy galaxy
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 17
Can anyone let me know what is the highest score that anyone got in SCEA5.... Looks like everyone is settling with below 70 in part 1.

[Edit: changed title to match what this topic has now become. - Andrew]
[ September 21, 2008: Message edited by: Andrew Monkhouse ]
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 41580
    
  54
"R GSN", you have been asked before to adjust your display name so that it conforms to the Javaranch policy. This is not optional. Accounts with invalid display names are generally closed quickly. Please fix this before your next post.


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Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11432
    
  85

"Galaxy"

We're a friendly group, but we do require members to have valid display names.

Display names must be two words: your first name, a space, then your last name. Fictitious names are not allowed.

Please edit your profile and correct your display name since accounts with invalid display names get deleted.

Consider this your 3rd and final warning! (I am repeating it in the (DreamCar thread, which would technically be the 4th warning).

- Andrew


The Sun Certified Java Developer Exam with J2SE 5: paper version from Amazon, PDF from Apress, Online reference: Books 24x7 Personal blog
guillermo urdaneta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 38
hey man, I recommend you, do that the sheriff said, is a policy, everyone here have to follow the rules. This is a great web site.

gurdaneta
Galaxy galaxy
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 17
Ok guys,
I changed it. Are you happy now. I dont understand why we are talking about screen names..
Galaxy galaxy
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 17
Are you happy now?

Its a great website.. no doubt...
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11432
    
  85

I'm sorry to hear that you feel that the rules don't apply to you.

In the other topic you appear to be stating that you want to cheat on the SCEA assignment. Is that the reason you don't want to display your real name?

Regardless, I was explicit in my last message what was required:

Display names must be two words: your first name, a space, then your last name. Fictitious names are not allowed.

Since you have chosen to disregard this, your account is now closed. If you want to, you can send a message to myself, one of the other moderators, or the owner of this site apologizing for ignoring the rules and stating that you wont do it again. If you do this then we may re-open your account. Alternatively you can open a new account and follow the rules.

Andrew
P Das
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 123
Hi Andrew,

Looks like Galaxy was being frivolous/satirical; request spare the comment that he was trying to cheat in such a well-known forum that would create a stigma for her/him. Having a teenage boy myself (probably he is a member, too), I know how they behave sometimes :-)

I would appreciate if you could help her/him to correct the situation, if that is the case. Since I had the same problem myself (my first name 'Pranab' was taken by someone else), I feel there could be help necessary in some cases.

Regards,


Pranab Das, PMP, SCEA
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11432
    
  85

Thanks for your thoughts Pranab.

I'm going to move this topic to the JavaRanch forum. That will allow us to discus the meta-concept of moderation, without disturbing the members of the SCEA forum.

Regards, Andrew
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11432
    
  85

Hi Pranab,

There were a lot of valuable ideas in what you were saying, and I look forward to exploring them further if you have the time. Here's my take on what you have said so far:

Originally posted by P Das:
Looks like Galaxy was being frivolous/satirical;

I can easily see his last comment as being frivolous and/or satirical. If he had changed his name to an invalid display name when Bear requested he change his name, and at that time posted that comment, then I (or someone else) would have responded appropriately indicating why we were not "happy now". Same if he had posted the comment when he changed his name following Ulf's request.

It was not his frivolous/satirical comment that resulted in his account being closed. We have a rule here at JavaRanch that everyone must "be nice" (myself included - more on that later) and he might have received a separate message from a different moderator if they felt that line was out of line, but of itself it does not warrant an account be closed.

So why did I close his account?

I was explicit in my request that he change his name, that this was his last chance to try and get it right. If he had even tried to fix his display name, or asked for assistance, I might have been ok with letting him get up to a 4th warning. But he decided not to follow the rules or the 3 requests to follow the rules. He did not even show that he was willing to consider following the rules. Four individuals were involved in suggesting he follow the rules - 3 of them sheriffs. I consider this to be too much effort being expended trying to get one person to follow the rules. So I decided to put an end to the time-sink.

Originally posted by P Das:
request spare the comment that he was trying to cheat in such a well-known forum that would create a stigma for her/him.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a requirement for everyone, myself included, to "be nice". So when I read your request I do wonder if I have stepped over the line. That is one of the reasons I moved the topic to this forum - other moderators will see it, and I am confident that they will tell me if they feel I should have said that differently or not at all.

First up though, I want to dispel the stigmatizing aspect of your message. This would only be true, in my opinion, if Galaxy were to come back to our site and post again as Galaxy. Otherwise Galaxy can come back and re-register with a new account with a proper display name, and there is nothing to associate the new account with the person named Galaxy. So there should be no stigma attached to the new person who is working within the rules.

In posting my comment about cheating, I was hoping that he might come to some understanding of what sort of impression he can create by his actions. Perhaps I should have been more explicit with what my intent was. I will think about it. I also welcome other thoughts.

Originally posted by P Das:
Having a teenage boy myself (probably he is a member, too), I know how they behave sometimes :-)

I personally feel that it would be a mistake for me to apply the rules differently based on my perception of a person's age. Part of growing up is learning to accept that there are rules and that they apply to everyone. But allowing someone to ignore the rules because they are young could lead to them believing that no rules ever apply to them - and then what happens to them when they "become adults" (do the suddenly realize that everything has changed?); or what happens if they decide that since little rules don't apply then big rules don't apply (can they get away with criminal acts because they are "underage"?).

That is not to say that I expect anyone to be perfect - people make mistakes, and occasionally break rules (sometimes without realizing it). It doesn't matter who breaks the rules, or how old they are, they still get the same treatment: they get asked multiple times to comply with the rules. We will happily discuss the rules if there is an issue with understanding. It is only if they continue to act as thought the rules do not apply that we stop trying to help them fit in.

Originally posted by P Das:
I would appreciate if you could help her/him to correct the situation, if that is the case.

We did try to help her/him. He/she had 4 messages from various members trying to get him/her to follow the rules. He/she could have started a discussion (privately with anyone who asked him/her, or publicly) if he/she did not understand the requirements or disagreed with them.

As I said earlier, I believe that Galaxy was becoming a time-sink as there was not any indication that he/she was even willing to consider working with us. We are willing to help people as much as possible, but we have to have a line in the sand where we can say that "this has gone too far". It was my decision that Galaxy had crossed that line.

Originally posted by P Das:
Since I had the same problem myself (my first name 'Pranab' was taken by someone else), I feel there could be help necessary in some cases.

That is a bug in the current version of the forum software that will hopefully be fixed in the next version. But there is a workaround - after you register you can go back and edit your display name, and the duplicate names check no longer applies. So you can edit your profile to read Pranab Das now if you so desire (or you can leave it as is as well ).

Regards, Andrew
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18748
    
  40

As a side point, isn't the SCEA an advanced certification? Requiring the SCJP and another certification before this one?

Why are teenagers getting this cert? Or more exactly, why is anyone getting this cert, getting the benefit of doubt, being compared to a teenager? I highly doubt that this person is a teenager.

An architect is not a code monkey, and can command a level of respect. Shouldn't they be expected to behave at a certain professional level too?

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61066
    
  66

I fully support Andrew's actions. "Galaxy" had every chance to comply with the rules, or discuss his issues with any of the staff here. As to the "stigmatizing", I have no issue with calling cheaters out. They cheapen whatever they touch for everybody, and silence only gives them implicit license to keep on cheating.


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
In my view, closing the account was necessary to communicate that we take our few rules seriously. And, as Andrew was careful to communicate, too, it didn't fully close the door for "Galaxy" - we are still more than willing to help him integrate into our community, if he wishes to.

So, quite will done, as far as I can tell.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
subject: moderation issue [was: what is the highest score in SCEA5 so far]