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For Jsp Development, UltraDev or JBuilder5?

Michael Arnett
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 22, 2001
Posts: 65
Hi all,
I am new to jsp development, and have access to both Macromedia UltraDev and Borland JBuilder5 (both of which are also new to me). Which product is most suited to JSP development? My tendency is to go with UltraDev because of the visual design tools for HTML, but I assume that JBuilder may be better for bean and/or straight java development with more reference materials, class api's, etc. Has anyone used either product for JSP development? Is there any product that is especially suited to JSP Development? Notepad? Any suggestions or war stories would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
-MLA


Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform 1.4
Swapnonil Mukherjee
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 6
Hey,
I fought a war on this topic with my friends.
Started out using Jsp about 6 months ago with guess WOT MSFRONTPAGE 2000. Then switched to Macromedia Ultradev as soon as I got the cracker.
Since then been to Jbuilder, Cold Fusion Forte et all.....
But found ULTRADEV TO BE BEST
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
JBuilder is great for doing the Java, but for layout you'd be better off using Dreamweaver.
Jason
Rehan Malik
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 76
Well to me, it depends on how fast you are about creating HTML code. If you know exactly what you want, then you might as well use the standard "notepad" *SHOCK*. It's a lot easier to integrete the code once you know what the HTML code is and what you want the layout to look like. With Ultradev, I've noticed, it's much more of a pain to switch between the HTML source code view and the preview view. Even then, the preview view gives a slight overview of what your HTML pages may look like but they won't look EXACTLY like them. At least not for me they havn't.
Go with what you're faster and more comfortable with using.
Forte uses too much RAM for it to be even considered personally.
Ultradev has nice features (mainly the stylesheets) which make it a better deal to work with.
Ideally, I prefer notepad =)


Rehan Malik
Wayne Hefner
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 13
This may not be the common opinion, But there is nothing any of the visual tools mentioned that I can not do in vi. These visual tools quite often clutter your code with inefficiencies that are not needed. The other aspect these visual tools try to do is make it so you don't have to understand how something works to code it. This is always a dangerous scenario when something breaks and it is time to debug and you hear the ever famous excuse **** I don't know the tool did that ****
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Wayne Hefner:
This may not be the common opinion, But there is nothing any of the visual tools mentioned that I can not do in vi. These visual tools quite often clutter your code with inefficiencies that are not needed. The other aspect these visual tools try to do is make it so you don't have to understand how something works to code it. This is always a dangerous scenario when something breaks and it is time to debug and you hear the ever famous excuse **** I don't know the tool did that ****

I too come from a background of doing my html in a text editor. However, if you have to develop and manage sites for a living, DW is the quickest, most effective way to do it. It even produces fairly nice code which you can edit to your hearts content within the tool. The templating and library tools are a huge time saver and also ensure consistency. Ever had to make one small change across many many pages? DW makes it a snap. It is much easier to layout using DW than it is by hitting the code in my opinion, especially if you are using DHTML. One of my favorite features is visually laying out a page using layers, and then having them converted into a table retaining my precise positioning (try that in vi). The site management tools are also a great help.
Naturally to be effective with a tool such as DW you should know your HTML inside and out before using it. That's the only way to ensure that the tool is going to do EXACTLY what you want it to.
While doing a small website using a text editor is fine, doing a site of any size in vi is just plain silly. Time is money in this business and you need to be able to show the client results FAST.
On a side note, all other web design tools I have used besides Dreamweaver I have found to be lousy. DW is really a good tool for someone who actually knows what he is doing in HTML, and as I said before, produces fairly nice code which you have complete control over.
Jason
Rick Salsa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2001
Posts: 173
Hi,
I find that Ultra Dev works best for me. One of the best features is its ability to work with beans. Once they are setup, you can easily use them across all your pages.
If I have to code any beans or servlets, I'll use JCreator.
 
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subject: For Jsp Development, UltraDev or JBuilder5?