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Games

Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
I enjoy computer games, like any self respecting techno-geek.
Anyone here at the ranch have any favorites?
I own...
Combat Flight Simulator
Close Combat II
I do enjoy Chess and other games.
I'd be nice to play with or against someone you know (sorta)
Some people at the on-line game sites can be rather rude, at times.
Maybe if there are others interested in something we could get together. Some may not care for military games or shot-em-ups. Racing games are fun, even a JavaRanch Chess Turney would be a hoot. Make a suggestion.


Anxiety does not empty tomorrow of its sorrows, but only empties today of its strength. – Charles Spurgeon
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Im always up for playing games online. Online gaming is fun as hell. I am in a competitive Unreal Tournament clan: (DD)Dark Disciples. http://www.unreality.org/disciples/
This might not be for everyone as it takes a very long time to get used to these types of fast paced killing games.
I even like to play games that i dont play alot even if its just to play online with someone i know. And most games i play are ALL online. We could surely set something up with some game or another.
[This message has been edited by Andy Ceponis (edited April 18, 2001).]
Joseph Russell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 290
I've been pretty busy lately (or maybe just distracted) but I do own:
Thief
Civilization
Starcraft (and the Broodwar expansion)
Diablo (wasn't too impressed with it-- too easy to beat)
I've been thinking about buying Everquest but I'm afraid I might get too involved in it.
I tend to enjoy RPG's or strategy type games. The only online game I've played is msn's cribbage. I'm up to play an online game. Just email me and let me know when and where and I'll see if I can do it...
I'd be really interested if someone is up to playing an Axis and Allies online game. I'm not aware that one exists but I'm sure it must. A few friends of mine have been playing the board game lately and I really enjoy playing it.
Joe
[This message has been edited by Joseph Russell (edited April 18, 2001).]
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Games?
Detective Barbie
Elmo in Grouchland
PowerPuff Girls Pillow Fight
Do you get the impression that I don't ever have the computer to myself?


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Joseph Russell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 290
Hey, do they have a Detective Barbie for online gaming?
ryan burgdorfer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 24, 2001
Posts: 219
I have been a gaming fanatic ever since the Atari 2600 came out, and then computer-wise on my first TRS-80 (Adventure was the game, then the Zork's, then the rest of the Infocom text adventures.) I was bitten by the Quake bug quite severely. I still think I could frag just about anyone in Quake 1, or 2...not so sure about 3.
Having always been a role-playing geek, I am currently quite addicted to Asheron's Call. For me, playing any other game is just time wasted, time that could be spent furthuring my character on AC
Game over, man.
------------------
  • Ryan Burgdorfer
  • Java Acolyte


<UL TYPE=SQUARE><I><LI>Ryan Burgdorfer<BR><LI>Java Acolyte</I></UL>
Annie Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 17, 2001
Posts: 50
It may be anti social, but tetris is still my game. If I have to learn rules then I might as well be studying something profitable like java. When I want mindless relaxation - (a trance like state) give me those tumbling blocks.
And then if I do get kicked off the computer, it's no big deal.
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

Man... I must own about a metric tonne of games....
Currently, when I'm wasting my time I prefer to play one of two games:
-HalfLife/TFC : Since I just rigged a home network up I can now play against my wife... She never enjoyed FPS games that much until we were able to play against each other... However, we both would find it more fun to play cooperatively together instead of deathmatch... since we have a crappy, slow internet connection internet play isn't an option... So I'm learning map editing and other HalfLife editing to try and make a more cooperative game...
-Civilization(any) : I recently found Civ: Call To Power in the bins at a discount store recently... my wife had to hide the CD last night because I was wasting too much time playing it... now she wishes someone had hidden it from her too, since she is wasting so much time on it also! I would have to rate the Civilization games ( any of them... ) as my all time favourite game!
I have played tons and tons of other games of all kinds... due to the above mentioned crappy, slow Internet connection, most of my game playing has been solitary rather than online, but I used to have a blast playing multiplayer Quake and StarCraft afterhours when I worked as a computer lab assistant in college.
On the subject of games... anyone making any in Java? I always have a couple of ideas floating around inside my head about games that I want to make, and every so often ( if I can ever find the time to ) I actually make one... so far all the finished games are pretty simple ( Tetris, Pong, etc. ), but I have started working on some more complex stuff... Anyone else do any Java game programming?
-Nate


-Nate
Write once, run anywhere, because there's nowhere to hide! - /. A.C.
Adrian Yan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 02, 2000
Posts: 688
Nathan, you are whipped.
Joseph Russell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 290
All this talk about games made me want to go play Civilazation last night. I hadn't loaded it yet (or any other games) on this harddrive. So, I'm loading it on my CD-R drive and it tells me that it doesn't meet the game specs for speed. Then I try my 50x and the stupid thing wouldn't work. URG! I just got it for Christmas and it already doesn't work. Spent most of the night attempting to fix it... Death to all cheaply made hardware
David Junta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2000
Posts: 86
Don't you people know that playing those awful shoot-em-up games makes you prone to irrational, spontaneous outbursts of violence, often in public places with very large crowds?
Doesn't it?
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Don't you people know that playing those awful shoot-em-up games makes you prone to irrational, spontaneous outbursts of violence, often in public places with very large crowds?

Of course it does, why do you think we love it so much???
octavyn pittman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 134
I'd be into an Axis & Allies online but I haven't played it in something like 10 years. And Zork? uggh Man did I ever hate that game -- and pretty much all those types of text based games. How was I supposed to know that the cryptic "chew gum" command was available and had to be executed on the piece of rawhide found in the cellar in the hole under the flowerpot in order to have it prepared to stick in the eye of the troll in the second path of the forest? However, MUDs were the balls before online graphics came into their own.
I'd have to concur on Civ -- it's a great game -- and Starcraft is too. A little known game I used to love was Masters of Magic III and also the Magic the Gathering computer game. The Ultima series has held my attention for long periods of time, but like someone mentioned before about Everquest-- the time sink is incredible. I don't think I ever want to mine another shovel full of iron ore and turn it into an ingot so that I can store it in my bank vault and go back and try and do it again <-- that is all you do in the beginning month of Ultima Online (or build some other mundane skill to make money)
I like BackGammon online--quick and dirty. I try to avoid new games because of the time sink, but I became quite the blazer on Tribes -- another game I rate highly -- but now Tribes 2 has come out, and the cycle starts again. Ah well. My girlfriend hates computer games now
As far as the ill-effects of gaming, I think it quite possible were one to exclusively play first person death games for excessive hours every day for a long time (which is not so unusual) they definitely have an effect. After playing Tribes for long hours, I would with an ever so slight sidewinding down the sidewalk with an edgy paranoia looking for some guy to be on top of a roof with a sniper gun. I knew it wasn't going to happen but your senses become aware of these things when you go through such realistic simulations.
OP
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Some interesting responses.... no Close Combat fans, however
The reason I like to play against people is the strategy is more complex and prone to errors and unpredictability. The AI (artificial intelligence) in most games is... artificial! No matter how complex, it is easy to defeat once you know the patterns.
Predictably there is a wide variety of interest and favorites.
Suggestion... Since it is impractical to expect people to shell out $20-$50 (US) for a decent computer game, we should try and find either a free game (cards, chess, etc) or download a trial version that can be played on-line. I've tried "Midtown Madness" and "Monster Truck Madness" trials and both are fun racing games, that can be played on zone.com. Close Combat also has a trial that can be played on the net.
Any other ideas? Then maybe we could agree on a game and location and set a date.

[This message has been edited by Ray Marsh (edited April 23, 2001).]
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
As far as the ill-effects of gaming, I think it quite possible were one to exclusively play
first person death games for excessive hours every day for a long time (which is not so
unusual) they definitely have an effect. After playing Tribes for long hours, I would with
an ever so slight sidewinding down the sidewalk with an edgy paranoia looking for some
guy to be on top of a roof with a sniper gun. I knew it wasn't going to happen but your
senses become aware of these things when you go through such realistic simulations.

I have to disagree on that point. Playing violent video games has no effect on real life. People simply use that as an excuse. I have spent thousands of hours playing games like Unreal, Unreal Tournament, and Quake. Those games are simply about killing as many people as you can while trying to stay alive. I have my fun playing the games, then when im offline i resume my real life. People believe too much of what they hear in the news today and believe it whether its true or not. The ONLY way that a violent video game would effect me in real life would be if i was walking down the street and i saw someone strafe jumping off a ledge with a rail gun while glowing blue from the quad-damage he just picked up(you quake fans know what i mean ). Then i might be prone to violence and pull out my plasma gun and mow him down while trying to make a break for the red armor in the room with the BFG.
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
It's beginning to sound like the "Gun Culture" thread.
He's an invite:
What: Monster Truck Madness 2 Trial (The download can be accessed via "The Zone", next line)
Where: www.zone.com (follow your nose... hint: it's under "Racing")
When: Tomorrow 4/24 12noon et
You'll need a "Zone Friends" sign-on
Mine is "CleverEgg" Done laugh!
I was in a hurry and the ones I wanted were taken. So that's the best I could come up with under pressure It could be worse, I suppose.
The game works good with the keyboard, you don't need 3d acceleration, but it's alot nicer with it.
[This message has been edited by Ray Marsh (edited April 23, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ray Marsh (edited April 23, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ray Marsh (edited April 23, 2001).]
octavyn pittman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 134
Sorry Andy, but I've got to disagree. I didn't base my opinion on what I saw in the media, but rather on personal experience. In other words, I know the games can have an effect on me, and so I know that they can have effects on others. However, I realize that I will not be able to show this objectively and the point is easily argued either way.
I will offer this point. Games have been used throughout history as simulations of reality--although the connection can be admittedly tenuous. Consider that pilots often use flight simulators to train, practice and learn to fly. This is known to work. What makes one think that other games are not going to train someone to be better at certain skills. I am not saying that someone wants to kill after playing violent computer games; rather they may be more used to it, having gone through a multitude of simulations of killing, and could be more predisposed to killing than they would have been otherwise. Just something to consider.
OP
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
That theory implies that kids should be much better drivers since they play driving simulations all the time. Or if the pilot eats the fish and gets sick, I guess I can land that 747 since I play a lot of Flight Simulator.
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
While i can sortof see where you are coming from Octavyn, i still have to disagree. The killing video games have nothing in them that is even humanly possible. They are not simulators like pilots may use. Those simulate a real life experience. Now if you can tell me exactly how playing a violent video game like quake or tribes relates to real life id love to hear it. They are pure fantasy, nothing more. And stuff that is not humanly possible cant be of any help to make people better killers or more predisposed to it.
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
While I have to agree that for the vast majority of people there shouldn't be a problem I can see the potential for movies/video games et al to affect the perceptions of somebody who may somehow not be mentally "normal". (note: I believe normality is a perception in itself and so I use the word just because I can't think of a better one) Someone who may not be able to comprehend concepts of right and wrong, and the value of human life could potentially be negativly influenced by this type of media.
[This message has been edited by Angela Poynton (edited April 24, 2001).]


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

I agree with Angela... however, once one of these "abnormal" people "goes postal" ( just a phrase... please do not take offense if you are a postal worker... ), who is to blame? The person themselves? Their parents? The producer of whatever movie/music/comic book/RPG/computer game that they chose to fixiate upon? For some reason, currently alot of people are blaming the last category... I think that this has alot to do with other current cultural problems in America today... rampant lack of responsibility, inflated sense of self importance, need for instant gratification, and media sensationalism. Another problem is judgmentalism... All of the people that I have ever heard espouse the belief that violent video games cause violent behavior have either not played these games at all, or have only played them a few times because the "violence factor" of these games turned them off. ( This is another argument all together... "Do violent video games attract those with violent mindsets?" Yes, probably, but it is still not the fault of the producer of the game, and not everyone who plays violent games would evolve a violent mindset... ) I haven't heard anyone who actually liked playing Quake say, "Man, I really liked playing Quake... but I had to stop because all the violent content made me want to kill people!!! " This same argument has been argued forever... parents and authorities have always thought that something was corrupting their youth and driving them to commit nameless abominations. D&D, heavy metal, rock & roll, even the waltz, were thought at one time or another to cause otherwise normal people to suddenly turn into crazed, murderous deviants...
-Nate
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
OK, I'll bite. I was trying to avoid this conversation, but I have to weigh in.
There is a distinct difference between a child and an adult in the area of fantasy -Vs- reality. What may be fine for an adult is not fine for a child. I have a 9-year-old boy and I do not allow him to see certain movies and play certain computer games. Children are not small adults; they are very different in many ways. He is my charge and I control what he exposed to with great tenacity, according to my judgement.
Having said that, many children do not have significant boundaries and subsequently they are exposed to material far to mature for their young minds and IMO that is detrimental to them.
Numbing kids to violence and death is a dangerous path. I know there are no conclusive studies or at least the experts do not agree, however, it seems prudent to teach young people good values.
For adults I believe the impact of such violent content is less significant. I personally don't enjoy first person shoot-em-ups. Not that the violence is distasteful, it's just not my kind of game.
my 2.5 cents
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

I also agree with you Ray... in this case I guess that children could be considered "abnormal" adults... And it would be the parents fault if any of them "went postal". Most parents today teach their children nothing... especially not responsibilty or anything approaching interpersonal skills. ( I personally think that this is a bigger problem than the current media-induced worry over people who go crazy after playing a bout of Quake... ) Every time I see families in public now, it seems that the parents are either over-protective nazis, or they are lazy, brainless morons, letting their equally brainless, but much more active, brood run rampant anywhere they feel. ( This preceding statement was not meant to hurt anyone's feelings... and if it did, well, do you really want to identify with the phrase "lazy, brainless moron"... ) Don't get me wrong... I have seen good families ( and parents ), though these seem to be the minority now...

If anything, dealing with these people in public is what would induce me to go on a killing spree... much more than any FPS...

-Nate
Annie Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 17, 2001
Posts: 50
Before I was a parent , I never believed in the effect of games on children, but it was eery to hear my daughter pick up behavior and attitudes from TV. Children are strongly biologically programmed to imitate, and it takes more than one explanation session to counter that. If somebody falls down, the appropriate response is to see if they are hurt, not to laugh.
It stands to reason that some people are better at walling off their killing experiences and some let the aggression seep out a little.
I don't mind the concept of targeting a moving block and pushing a button to make it disappear. But when the users want the block to have a face, to spray blood and moan and writhe in agony while dying, that seems beyond the exercise of sportsmanship.
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
An interesting article that pertains to this discussion... http://www.zdnet.com/feeds/cgi/framer/hud00025a0/www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C5081690%2C00.html
Annie Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 17, 2001
Posts: 50
A lawsuit against Doom won't solve anything. I don't know much about Columbine details, or the parenting style of the shooters' families, but I do intend to follow my child closely enough to ensure that she has some idea how terrible murder is.
Violent entertainment will always be available, much like porn. And it will always affect different people differently. It is the parent's responsibility to either ensure that their child is reasonably happy and non-violent, or to get help. There are legit aspects of swordplay for example - If your kid is into the athleticism/coordination of it, or the gallantry of it, that's one thing. But the revenge aspect, the power aspect, those are dangerous, especially when the kid doesn't have other mechanisms for conflict resolution. When a kid's pride is based on destruction of other people, that's dangerous.
I am active in pushing classes in my church for teens and adults like meditation and stress relief and making friends. High school is an intensely cruel place, but a small group of friends can pull you through. (This is theory on my part, I mostly hid in books) It starts with recognizing a cruel remark as cruel, not hip.
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by Annie Weaver:
High school is an intensely cruel place, but a small group of friends can pull you through. (This is theory on my part, I mostly hid in books) It starts with recognizing a cruel remark as cruel, not hip.

"Love your enemies, do good unto them that despitefully use you..." Jesus Christ
I received my share of abuse in HS. Nothing serious, in retrospect, but I do remember the anger I felt, burning inside. Without a way to deal with it, I could have been a possible candiate for "losing it" and taking revenge in a violent way.
manav kher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 21, 2000
Posts: 98
About MS Flight Simulator, i have read rave reviews about the game but the only thing thats keeping me from trying the game is the thought that it might be too difficult for a beginner. I mean I love the idea of being able to fly (so what if its on a computer, thats the closest i'll ever get to controlling a aircraft) but I have never tried a flight sim before ...so tell me is it really so difficult?..i don't want to spend hours reading the manual either, i have too many other things to do
i am also waiting for Microsofts Train Sim...i hear its gonna be a great game.
-manav
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
I own Combat Flight Simulator and you can fly right out of the box. I believe the two packages are fairly similar. The defaults are set to "easy" and realism is toned down. As you get better and get around to reading the instructions, you can learn to do more.
In CFS you get WW2 fighters that are like high strung race horses. Very powerful, but hard to handle. The British Spitfire had so much torque, you could flip it on its back during take off, if you weren't careful! Commercial and private aircraft are probably not as difficult to manage. Although a 747 has challenges of its own, due to the enormous size. The realism settings take the edge off the real life physics, until you're skilled enough to try them.
If your interested in flying you will enjoy FS.
There is always flying lessons, if you want to really fly.
Matt DeLacey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 318
My favorite game in the world is Axis & Allies. For those of you on this board who mentioned it...there is a computer game and it's excellent. The only problem is that while the AI (if you don't have someone to play against) is decent, it doesn't come close to a human. Consequently, I can beat the stuffings out of the game no matter what settings are in place. I love Axis and Allies because it is THE best strategy game I have ever known. The balance is great. The only problem is that the board game takes forever. I have had many 10+ hour games that were never finished. The computer version is much better in this respect.
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Strategy games are my favorite. Can you play Axis and Allies on the internet? Also where you buy it? I'll look myself, but if you have a source, I'd appreciate it.
octavyn pittman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 134
That theory implies that kids should be much better drivers since they play driving simulations all the time. Or if the pilot eats the fish and gets sick, I guess I can land that 747 since I play a lot of Flight Simulator.

Hmmm... I guess you've got my point. I believe kids do learn to be better drivers through simulations. Even actually driving with old grandpa around the parking lot is a simulation, and that could be pretty helpful for learning to drive.
Think about another point...to teach a child to spell, we may play an 'abc' game or repeat the 'abc' rhyme (in the States), we may set up our 5 year old on the old pc to play some addition and subtraction game. We easily admit that such activities, albeit in combination with other learning strategies, teach the kids skills and influence their abilities. However, we have a very hard time making the association between such simulations and consequences in real life with not-so-wholesome games.
I'll be the first to admit, I've been addicted to all kinds of games. I just think it's foolish not to realize the detrimental effects (as well as positive effects) games can have on nearly every individual who plays them--abnormal people or even those who fit in with the status quo version of normality.
Of course, I did not say that just because you played flight simulator, you could land that 747. Fortunately 747s are required to have at least two pilots, so you should be ok. But I would say you may be more prepared after many, many hours of flight simulator (if it's a good one) to understand how flaps, rudders, thrust and other things factor into your flight pattern when you learn to fly. If you were in a dire situation, you would probably be more prepared to take action in that situation than someone who had never simulated that situation.
Another $.02 given away...I'm going to be poor soon,
OP
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Ok, this has been a merry romp and even interesting, at times.
Would anyone actually be interested in playing a game?
Checkers, Chess, BackGammon, Tiddly winks, Rogue Spear... Come on, make a suggestion.
manav kher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 21, 2000
Posts: 98
i agree with ocatvyn though i don't have kids of my own I know this from experience. I am pretty good at racing sims and am a real good driver in real life too..haha as if there were any link between the two?. But i learnt to drive entirely on my own ...don't know I think there is some logic that you kinda need the same skills (good visual perception of space, fast reactions etc) for both
-manav
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
Can there be a better game than chess, ever?

Pourquoi voulez-vous mon nom?
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
Can there be a better game than chess, ever?

There will never be a game superior to Chess.
Simple in concept, nearly infinite in its complexity. Hundreds of years old (thousands? maybe, I don't know), yet children still find it fascinating. Will frustrate me till the day I die. I hate, I love it. Will never master it. Will continue to try.
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Ray- have you tried Go? Its rules are simpler than those of chess, yet its complexity greater. I believe it's around four thousand years old, while chess is... 2500 I think? (Naturally the specific rules have changed over the centuries, and there are many regional variations, but chess-like games have been around quite some time.) Plenty of kids play Go too - they're just mostly in Japan, China, and Korea. Of course it all comes down to personal taste really - but based on the virtues you cite for chess, you might want to give Go a try. A few useful links:
http://www.well.com/user/mmcadams/gointro.html http://www.yutopian.com/go/goLes/goLes1.html http://www.papazoglou.net/go/javago.html
Note the last one is for a Java implementation of the game.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
pete hesse
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 29, 2000
Posts: 44
in this case I guess that children could be considered "abnormal" adults...

"All children have brain damage!"
Bill Cosby
Greg Tuck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 27, 2001
Posts: 30
Yep, I'm a major gamer too.
My current obsession is Diablo II - it has pried my cold dead fingers away from Asheron's Call.
Anybody wanna get on and help me take out Diablo? I'm *GITuck on the USEast realm.


Technical Manager, International Assignment Services<BR>Deloitte & Touche, LLP
Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Ray- have you tried Go?...

Jim... I've never even heard of it. I checked out the links, at first it looked like Othello, but not quite. I'm going to give it a try, it looks like fun. Other ancient games I enjoy are... "Stones" and "Mancala" two similar games. Simple on the surface, but a skilled player will have you for lunch and you won't know what hit you.
My daughter learned Mancala at school and was fascinated by this "new" game. Grandma (who had been playing since she was a little girl in the Philippines) played my daughter and blew her away! It was great!
Somehow, I believe, Chess will haunt me forever. There is always another level to achieve. Just when you think you're somebody on the board, you meet someone that makes you feel like a rank amateur. It's humbling to realize that someone could be that much better than you.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
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