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Poliushko Pole

Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
Can anyone tell me what this means? All I know is that it's a sweet Russian (patriotic?) song.
I was attracted to it, when I first heard it on the PBS program 'Full Circle' with Michael Palin. When in Vladivostok, he sings this song along with a choir; and adds his own comic element to it; really funny guy.
Map, do you know this song?

Pourquoi voulez-vous mon nom?
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Patriotic? Yes, it was kind of official song, I�ve heart it many times played on radio but never from anybody alive
�Pole" means "field" (in this particular case field in agricultural sense), "Poliushko" is an affectionated form from "pole". We have a bunch of syffixes which add emotional tones to the word, so it�s almost always possible to modify a word to express that you like this thing, or you dislike it... Or something else. For example, neutral word for �paper� is �bumaga�. Then if you said �bumagka� � it means small unimportant piece of paper. Or not unimportant, you just want to say that it is unimportant. Then you do not have to say: �Where is this small unimportant piece of paper?�, you say �Where is this bumagka�? I remember, when I started to learn English I missed this feature greatly. English looked too dry and dull for me. It doesn�t look so now, but I still suspect that my Russian output is much richer emotionally. On the other hand, English suits better for expressing bare intellectual ideas � no distraction
I wonder, what other non-native English speakers miss in English... Let�s complain?
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited May 15, 2001).]


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Ling Wu
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Joined: Jul 19, 2000
Posts: 184
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:

I wonder, what other non-native English speakers miss in English... Let�s complain?

Chinese:
1. No plural forms for nouns: two table, three horse, nine life....
2. No tenses for verbs: I see you in the market yesterday; I win a trophy last year..... (so you don't have to memorize words like taught, caught, etc. )
BTW, I really can't complain. English was a fun language for me to learn. I have a feeling that I might have been speaking English in my previous life , because way back my mom told me that I was speaking English in my dreams when in fact I could hardly finish a complete sentence while awake.
Angela Poynton
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Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
Which leads to a question I've always wondered about. Those of you who speak more than one language ... what language do you dream in??
My Taiwanese friend says that if she is dreaming about me or any other English friends .. we speak English but she speaks Chinese, yet I would understand her! I think dreams are wierd enough without this added complication.


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
They do say that English is the best language in the world for crossword puzzles.


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Ling Wu
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Joined: Jul 19, 2000
Posts: 184
Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Which leads to a question I've always wondered about. Those of you who speak more than one language ... what language do you dream in??

I can't speak for other native Chinese speakers, Angela, but here is what I do with my two languages:
-- Most of the time I dream speaking English. Once in a while, I dream speaking Chinese. My boyfriend is American who does not speak a word of English. But in my occasional Chinese language dreams, he speaks fluent Chinese.
-- When I think, or talk to myself (OK, I know that is sign of aging ), it is all in English. In fact, I stopped thinking in Chinese eons ago.
-- I do much better memorizing numbers, especially phone numbers, and most especially my Social Security Number, in Chinese. I also do better counting in Chinese. Every time someone asks my SSN, I have to go over it in Chinese in my head before saying it out loud. I have got more than one suspicious look because of the pause.

[This message has been edited by Ling Wu (edited May 16, 2001).]
Sahir Shibley
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Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275

Gee. Are we supposed to think in a language. I always imagined thought was a language independent process and the raw output is transformed to some language when it gets to port 8080. You have me worried now. I must call my shrink to fix an appointment.
Ling Wu
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Joined: Jul 19, 2000
Posts: 184
Originally posted by Sahir Shibley:

Gee. Are we supposed to think in a language. I always imagined thought was a language independent process and the raw output is transformed to some language when it gets to port 8080. You have me worried now. I must call my shrink to fix an appointment.

Oh migod, am I the only one who thinks in a language? Like hearing a voice?
OK, give me the number for your shrink, then.

[This message has been edited by Ling Wu (edited May 16, 2001).]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Sahir, you are right that thinking is a language independent process � when we think about something tangible. But as we move to bare concepts it becomes more complicated and I think in the realm of ideas we thinks primarily via words. If there is no word for something, we basically do not think about it. For example, there is no common word for �frustration� in Russian (let apart psychologist professional lexicon) and as a result the whole idea of being frustrated is barely recognized. Words really help us to think, but the price is they also channel our mind and narrow vision.
Not to say that our native language often serves to substitute thinking with saying (or writing ) � we routinely use clichés and thus do not fully understand what we are talking about.
Some Chinese philosopher (not Johnson Chong! ) said �Where to find a man who forgot words to talk to him?� � one of the deepest ideas I am aware of.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
shahir,
For some one who is not in the US, and especially given that you've only visited this country once when you were a kid, I am amazed by the colloquial English(Gee, shrink, and a lot many examples from your other posts) you use. How familiar are you with the culture in US? How did you get this familiarity? I am curious.
-Asuthosh.
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
There was an earlier discussion on the Ranch, about what languages are tough to learn. I found the following article in the New York Times:

Learning a Tough Language

Q. What are the hardest languages for English speakers to learn?

A. Diana Jean Schemo, a Washington correspondent, responds:

Ray Clifford, provost of the Defense Language Institute, says the difficulty of learning a foreign language is directly related to how much it differs from a student's native language, in its rules of syntax and grammar, its alphabet and even the culture it springs from.

The Defense Department devotes the most time, 63 weeks, to teaching its hardest languages, which include Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Korean. Less difficult are Russian and the Slavic languages, Vietnamese, Farsi and some Asian languages, to which the Defense Department devotes 47 weeks' training, followed by German, Indonesian and other languages ranked with them in difficulty. Romance languages are considered the easiest for Americans with little foreign language background to master, along with some Scandinavian languages.

The State Department grades languages similarly, but counts Mongolian and Georgian among its "super hard" languages. Notably, perhaps because many of its employees have studied a foreign language previously, it also considers German as easy to learn as French, Spanish and other Romance languages.

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The Rancher Henceforth Known As Nanjangud Nanjundaiah.
Sahir Shibley
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Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
Originally posted by Asuthosh Manne:
shahir,
For some one who is not in the US, and especially given that you've only visited this country once when you were a kid, I am amazed by the colloquial English(Gee, shrink, and a lot many examples from your other posts) you use. How familiar are you with the culture in US? How did you get this familiarity? I am curious.
-Asuthosh.

I must have been watching too many American movies.
I dont think "shrink" is strictly an American word now. In Kerala we consider regular visits to the shrink a routine thing just like going to the dentist. Under the circumstances "shrink" seems a more "polite word" than psychiatrist.

Actually I wasnt joking about the thinking thing. I am still worried. In spite of making a conscious effort since the last two days I am not able to identify the language I think in.

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited May 17, 2001).]
Sahir Shibley
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Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
There was an earlier discussion on the Ranch, about what languages are tough to learn. etc etc

What about Malayalam. I think that IS the hardest language on earth. Even if you manage to learn the language you can never get the accent right. The only foreigner I have seen with a passably good accent is an 80 year old Dutch Jesuit priest. When I remarked on his good accent he said it took him more than 50 years to master the accent. I am a native Malayalam speaker who has studied Malayalam at university level (no. not B.A. Malayalam literature. That is just impossible.) yet I am not able to write perfect Malayalam.

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited May 17, 2001).]
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
>What about Malayalam
According the US Defense Department, all you need is a maximum of 47 weeks for an American to learn Malayalam
Never mind the accent... if everyone can learn that, it won't be special anymore I have a few Malayali friends whose accent fully carries over to their English too. It's quite entertaining just like a heavy Tamil accent is. Strangely, perhaps because I speak the language myself, I don't think there's any strong accent to Kannada, and feel that it wouldn't carry over to my English. I guess I cannot be an unbiased judge of that.

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The Rancher Henceforth Known As Nanjangud Nanjundaiah.
 
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subject: Poliushko Pole