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Possible suspects ?

Jake the Snake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
I am not at all familiar with terrorist groups from the middle east or so. If anyone has more insight into this, I would appreciate if they can post what are the major groups out there. Osama Bin Laden is the one that is being mentioned right now. Can someone educate us on this subject and prefferably provide some facts/background of these groups that are on top of the list right now.
thank you
Jake
[This message has been edited by Jake the Snake (edited September 11, 2001).]
Sahir Shibley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275

There is something strange about this. This doesn't look like the uncontrolled aggression of zealots , this operation bears the mark of the professional soldier.
But whoever ordered this attack is an animal.

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 11, 2001).]
Tony Alicea
Desperado
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 3222
    
    5
In other words, Bin Laden.


Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
Sahir Shibley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275

If motive is the criteria then the obvious suspect is Bin Ladin . But he does not have people of this calibre working for him , unless if he hired mercenaries, but then no mercenary will be ready for a suicide attack .
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Well said Tony. I am in full support of nuking all of Afganastan. Maybe twice or 3 times just for good measure. That government(from what wwe have heard) has been harboring bin laden for a long time so it is only fair that we hold them responsible and make them pay for it if they wont give up that piece of trash laden. May he and all his supporters roast in hell.
John Bateman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2000
Posts: 320
Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
If you're not American you won't understand.
This is [b]our
problem.
[/B]

I'm not American.
I understand.
But it's MY problem too. You may have been the victim but the shot at democracy is not one I would stand by and watch happen again.
I say American has been given the go ahead to pretty much do whatever they deem necessary on this matter.
It's almost ironic that I wrote an earlier post on if a punishment fits the crime.
What punishement should this demand?

SOURCE CODE should be SURROUNDED by "code" tags.
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Only one i can think of.
Tony Alicea
Desperado
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 3222
    
    5
John:
You are American today 'cause of your wise words.
Can I have honorary citizenship in your civilized country too?!
Thanks,
Tony
Jake the Snake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
I am sure they will Ersin. You fight force with even greater force and I am sure that the American government will do so. It is just a matter of time and I think it is going to happen really quickly.
Tony Alicea
Desperado
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 3222
    
    5
As already Pres. Bush said: "We will not distinguish between..." the perpetrators and the countries that gave them refuge...
If I was in Afghanistan now I would be LEAVING right now... even if I was a CNN reporter...
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
There have been reports that Bin Ladin has trained pilots to fly these type aircraft.
John Dow
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 4


But he does not have people of this calibre working for him , unless if he hired mercenaries, but then no mercenary will be ready for a suicide attack .

Shair:
With all due respect......no offense but,
If you follow the news (its everywhere) that Bin Laden is
ONE of the persons who has such people (urrr..mercenaries as
you said). I think he himself is one...
You ever hear abt The USS Cole...
It was said in the news today that Bin Laden has people capable of flying Commercial Airplanes on his pay-roll....
Suicide mercenaries, every other day, are in the news about
Israil and Palestine abt suicide attacks....
Just sick to hear and see all this...
- JD
Ashish Hareet
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 375
I am not an American but what Tony said doesn't even need to be thought about , THIS IS & SHOULD BE THE ONLY REACTION .
Kill them & make sure you Kill 'Em All .
Time they get a dose of their own medicine.
I disagree on one point that only an American can understand Tony's view . Uptill now America viewed terrorism very objectively & today when the horrors are real they feel the pain .
Sad to see so many people die for the cause of religion . This has been the fact of life for so many people living in the Third World .
It's about time the democracies of the world unite & prove it to the extremist jerks what are ideals are made of .
Prayers for the people still trapped
Ashish
Ashish Hareet
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 375
Before you read this I'd like to say that Muslims are nice people , groups like the ones named below give the community a bad name . Muslims around the world share the concern that international terrorism poses . Please don't label a community for the actions caused by fanatics .
Right away I can list the following terrorist / extremist's groups that might be involved -
HAMAS
This group is responsible for training kids as young as 12 to become suicide bombers . Training to these kids is given in & around Gaza City . This group is responsible for numerous suicide bombing attacks in Israel . It is supported by many of the Palestinians & it receives funding from UK , North America & Middle East . It has a strong international presence . Their goal is an Islamic rule in Israel & it has probably thousands of fanatics ready to become suicide bombers .
Nobody makes better suicide bombers then these lot .
al Qaida ( Bin Ladin's baby)
This group sarted off on a good cause for the Afghans ( which explains their huge support ) . It was formed by Bin Ladin to fight the Soviets during the Afghan resistance & later they changed their goal to establishing a Muslim state throughout the world . This group had said a few years back that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill the US people & Bin Ladin had quoted around the time that the WTC would be a prime target if he were to attack the US . It has conducted successful bombings of US embassies in Kenya & Dar-E-Salaam . They have the power to round up all the extremist groups in the Middle East to work for them . And they also have a huge arsenal of sophisticated arms as good as the US including latest missile technologies . Funding is primarily from Bin Ladin & from charitable organizations .
These guy's love to hate America .
Taliban
Talib means student & Taliban means a student of Islam . They started off like regular religious organizations , devoted to serve & protect their community until Mohammed Umar ( their leader ) mis-interpreted the Muslim law & all went awry . Taliban was also a political party in Afghanistan but is now largely a millitant outfit reigning supreme in Afghanistan overpowering the Mujahaideens . The goal of these people is an Islamic Afghanistan . Their funding is done largely by the smuggling of narcotics , Bin Ladin & religious organizations from around the world ( UK in particular ) . They have a bad reputation in a sense that if you commit a crime in their empire you'll be amputated / stoned to death / or Bobbitized . They simply hate the West & in particular the US because of the restrictions the US has laid upon them . According to an article ( in India Today ) I read a few months ago the roots of this organization could've been in UP , India . Most of their meetings are held in Pakistan & it is also beleived that this is were their leaders operate from .
Beware ! These people truly believe in the call to Holy Wars right down till that last drop of blood .
Osama Bin Ladin ( Do we need proof for his involvement !)
Son of a multi millionaire , he inerited some few hundred million dollars which he uses to fund the various organizations . He is a GOD to the Afghans & all those who strive for HOLY WARS . He provides training camps , trained Muhjahadeens , arms assistance , deployment of units , funds , etc for almost all the millitant groups in & around the Middle East . He is supposed to have billions of dollars in assets all around the world . He has huge businesses ( read shipping , trade , banking , etc) that are operational under dubious names . He is also involved in smuggling narcotics along the Golden Cresent . He also allegedly receives money from Dawood Ibrahim the infamous don from Mumbai city . His links with the underworld don's from Malaysia , Thailand , Phillipines , Italy & Mexico help him smmugle narcotics into South Asia & also large parts of South America & the Carribean . The last footage I saw of Bin Ladin was at his son's wedding . Last night Bin Ladin was quoted on Star News as saying that he is in no way responsible for what happened in the US but he is supportive of the cause (Reminds me of Delta Force -II). he is the founding member of al-Qaida (also called as Osama Bin ladin organization) which strives for a new World Islamic Front . al-Qaida is a sorta international extension of Taliban . Bin Ladin was also a founding member of Taliban .
People will lay down their lives for him if not for GOD .
Lashkar-E-Toiba , Lashkar-E-Jabbar , Harqut-Ul-Mujahadeen , Harquat-Ul-Ansar & many more - their names change every day
These people generally operate in the Kashmir valley & work more for the money they get rather than for religion . They have know to be involved in the bombings of the US Embassies in Nairobi , Dar-E-Salaam & Kenya along with al-Quaida . Their great intelligence network spreads across the world in the form of Madarsa's . They also have a huge network of associates in the form of respected citizens in the UK ( predominantly ) , the US & almost all of South Asia .
They excel in intelligence & Guerilla warfare .
Afghanistan & company
Ok we all know this , shouldn't we attack ? No if's or but's , Peace sells but today no one is buying ! Let's nuke their sorry asses off this planet . No option left this black morning !
Pray for the folks still buried
Ashish
Sahir Shibley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
Originally posted by John Dow:

Shair:
With all due respect......no offense but,
If you follow the news (its everywhere) that Bin Laden is
ONE of the persons who has such people (urrr..mercenaries as
you said). I think he himself is one...
You ever hear abt [b]The USS Cole
...
[/B]

I had been reading some stuff on the net about him. I see your point. But you cannot entirely scratch out Hamas or even Saddam's people.
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Thanks Ashish, I understand better now.

"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
John Dow
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 4

I see your point.
Thanks. For a moment it crossed my mind that you seem to
have a soft corner for this Bin Laden guy...
But you cannot entirely scratch out Hamas or even Saddam's people.
Nope, I guess nothing can be ruled out. God knows.
- JD
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4340
    
    2

as far as im concerned saddam hussein should have been killed for what he started in kuwait so I say lets assasinate both of them and seize bin ladins money to give to the victims. the government here in the US is too lawful for my taste actually. it balked at assasinating hussein and we the public will live to regret it mark my words.


SCJP
Visit my download page
Ashish Hareet
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 375
Originally posted by John Dow:

Thanks. For a moment it crossed my mind that you seem to
have a soft corner for this Bin Laden guy...

I just have this to say to people who wanna fight terrorism
You've got one chance - INFILTRATE THEM
Get it right - TERMINATE THEM
Break their pride - DENIGRATE THEM
Epidemic - DEVASTATE THEM
Take no Prisoners - CREMATE THEM

SUDDENLY I THINK WAR IS PEACE

PS the big words up there are from a song "Take No Prisoners" by Megadeth from their Rust In Peace album , but it is very much the essence of what I have in mind right now .
Sahir Shibley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275

I dont understand the US government's attitude to Pakistan. They seem hell bent on helping Pakistan at every juncture with money, weapons and training. This country is the source of every conspiracy against world civilisation. Yet the US government insists on providing them with assistance in every form. Even to the extent of running camps to train terrorists, even when they are fully aware the resources they provide are often being used to launch attacks against Americans.

Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
I agree Sahir !!
In fact isnt that a very poorly kept secret that at a point of time, USA supplied arms and technology to same Afgan rebels through Pakistan to fight against Russin Invasion?
Those young people trained by Pakistan military, supported by USA, to defent Russian Invasion, just got better and better, named themselves as the ultimate protectors of Islam, became richer and richer by selling drugs, and raising money from all over Arab world telling them fancy storries about a pure-muslim world.... and now they have grown enough to plan plots against the very same USA, and well, they succeeded it their plan !!!
Now... whom should we blame? An Osama Bin Laden? All Arab world who funded and supported him? Or Taliban Militia which supported Laden's training camps and other operations? Or Pakistan which took care to support and train more number of Taliban soldiers and terrorists than pakistanis in universities? Or India which ignored and never fought back till date against these terror gangs being trained and feeded along her borders? Or America who initially funded the bad-guys for good reasons and then ignored them and let them grow to blast of thousands of poor workers??
At times I feel this is more of polit(r)ics than religion !!

Ashok.


[ flickr ]
Sahir Shibley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
Originally posted by J Ash:
[B]Or America who initially funded the bad-guys for good reasons and then ignored them [B]

Dont be so sure it isn't still going on. They need the islamic militants to fight the spread of communism in the Indian subcontinent. Not a nice time for finger pointing or I told you sos, but islamic militancy would have remained an obscure and esoteric trend if the american's hadn't stumbled onto it .
[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 13, 2001).]
Ashish Hareet
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 375
Sad but true ! The truth of iternational terrorism lies naked in NYC . I think the whole attitude of the US will change towards terrorism . Only if they would've realized this before & helped nations fighting terrorism this wouldn't have happened !
Pray that they find more survivors .
Peace
Ashish
John M. Gabriele
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2001
Posts: 232
Thanks for all the information Ashish.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ashish Hareet:
Sad but true ! The truth of iternational terrorism lies naked in NYC.
The last time someone launched such a cowardly attack on America we finished it by dropping nuclear bombs on their cities. Perhaps those who hide terrorists might wish to keep that in mind.

Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Ashish Hareet
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 375
IS PAKISTAN LISTENING !?
War is the only option left . The blood lost needs to be avenged .
They found survivors . Pray they find more .
War is Peace ! GRRRRRRR
Ashish
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
The last time someone launched such a cowardly attack on America we finished it by dropping nuclear bombs on their cities. Perhaps those who hide terrorists might wish to keep that in mind.

I was disspointed that someone deleted my post. But i want to express it again.
America didn't drop any bombs yet on any country because there is no enemy for them it is the monster that they created had truned back on them.
In your thirst for world dominition you bought pets like pakistan, afghanistan to break USSR and teach lesson to India.
You guys have trained them and used them once your thirst for domination over you just ignored them. And you got shocked when it turned back on you. A Traitor is Triator and you didn't know that.
Your media is screwed up and shows people in other country who are celeberating the death at WTC only to teach american people to hate the eniter race and kill them when they see them.
Who knows how true was it they might have showed something recorded one.
Why your media never cared to show the sufferings of other country people by the evil deeds of america in quest for dominition in the world.
American Attitude.
DON'T CARE.
OUR PROBLEM IS PROBLEM.
OUR SUFFERINGS ARE SUFFERINGS.
Aren't the lives of other innocent people not as worth as american innocent people.
I have missed something bc'z i was emotional at first time. But i hope this time my post will be there and not like american media showing only that is good and not take any evil deeds of yours pointed by others.
There is no enemy to your country but your own evil deeds.
You guys are over confident with your own strategies and got shocked when it turned back on to you. It is time you realize it.
Lance Finney
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2001
Posts: 133
Originally posted by xyz xyz:
There is no enemy to your country but your own evil deeds.
You guys are over confident with your own strategies and got shocked when it turned back on to you. It is time you realize it.


This is insane. Is the United States perfect? Of course not. Don't mistake imperfection with evil. Whoever you are, you seem to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is evil. That anyone who helps someone who disagrees with you is evil. That anyone who isn't you is evil. The United States is not acting evilly, it's people like you that create an impossible, hateful standard and accept only one possible viewpoint.
You are wrong.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
I can also say you are absolutely wrong and insane and completely ignorant of the role america plays in world affairs. As you never come to know about it by your media and you are too brain washed by the good points of america.
It is you who are not able to see the sufferings of others are
unable to look at your problems from different angles as your thoughts is biased.
The world sympathesis the innocent death of american people at WTC.
But if you are not aware and ignorant of world affairs it is the america which supplies arms and trains people in pakistan and afgantitan from ages. Get out of your screwed up media and gather information from others too and try to accept the evil deeds of america and don't become insane. you will not be able distinguish the good and bad of society.
Lance Finney
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2001
Posts: 133
Originally posted by xyz xyz:
It is you who are not able to see the sufferings of others are
unable to look at your problems from different angles as your thoughts is biased.

You assume too much. I'm aware that the US sponsored Bin Laden against Russia and trained and funded him. I know we supported bad tyrants throughout the world during the Cold War (Zaire, Indonesia, Chile, etc.). Much of our history in Central America is despicable. Not all Americans are as ignorant as you think.
However, none of that justifies what has happened here.
Yes, we made mistakes, but your justification still fails.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
That's what i want to say?. You guys have sponsred terriorism in the world for your own benifit(world dominition) but when it turned back to you why are you shocked.
Why do you develop hatred and anger and want to eliminate a race because your media has teached it to you by showing some people celeberating the death. Don't you guys think/distinguish what is good and bad just carried away by what ever you see on your television (who knows they manipulated it and showed a recored one of some other event)
or what ever your goverment wants american people to see and convey and develop hatred against a race.
Haven't you thought how important the lives of innocent people around the world when you guys sponsring terriosim around the world. Are just you don't care because it is not your people who died till now.
But it is the innocent people who are dying and nothing can replace the death of loved one whether it is american or others.
And it is time you realize after you suffered that nothing can replace the innocent deaths of humans.
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4340
    
    2


You assume too much. I'm aware that the US sponsored Bin Laden against Russia and trained and funded him. I know we supported bad tyrants throughout the world during the Cold War (Zaire, Indonesia, Chile, etc.). Much of our history in Central America is despicable. Not all Americans are as ignorant as you think.

the thing is the government does things like that behind the back of the public. we never hear about it till it is long over with and certainly have no control over it.
as far as im concerned all governments are corrupt but we cant seem to get along without them.
[This message has been edited by Randall Twede (edited September 13, 2001).]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Because I for one (and many other, I know) just ignore anonymous postings, in case you're interested in being take seriously, unlikely as it may be.

I care a damn whether you take me seriously or not. This is meaningless drive and as per so called rules i needn't register. (Ofcoures i am registered user too.) I just want to express my views which you guys deleted once.
I don't need any acceptance from a radical like you who is spreading hatred.
In 1990-1? We send aid to IRAN after an earthquake there, for example.

So you want to convey you guys did good things too. I agree to that.
But you guys are only saying nothing justifies the tuesdays tragedy(previous posts)
Then how could it be justified when for your own benfit you sponsered terrorism else where and killed innocent people.
Is it just a mistake (Lancy posts) by you and nobody is perfect
is an excuse. Why cant you take that excuse for your own tragedy.
The USA is one of the most noble nations in the world and if you disagree, then you are simply wrong.

It is time now for USA to prove that its a noble nation and seeks world peace. I am not sure
whether your baby Bush will do that.
I for one completely disagree with all your views and hatred you are spreading and you are completely
wrong. Patriotisim(may be age) is blocking your thinking and refusing to accept the truth.
GOOD BYE.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
Prior to the plane crashes at the World Trade Centre probably the biggest similar event was the Oaklahoma bombing. Unfortunatly the people behind this had some support within the USA.
It has been suggested that some of this support was from within Montana. If you follow the logic of some of the posts in this forum it would be reasonable to "nuke" Montana, because there was some support.
Marcus

SCWCD: Online Course, 50,000+ words and 200+ questions
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Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
Very accurate observation Marcus
Christophe Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 142
to the XYZ guy,
I think what you're saying is an EXCUSE for the Jihad.
Osama Bin Laden and other fundamentalist Muslims believe that America and its way of life is tainting the purity of Islam. They oppose US military bases in the Middle East and they oppose American values.
To carry out their frustrations, they resort to killing civilians because they do not stand a chance with the US military.
I'd agree that if Iraqi or Taliban forces were in the United States or Canada, I'd be pretty offended too. I'd be even more offended if innocent US lives were lost due to the miliary occupation.
So I can understand your anger and frustration.
But what I do not understand is why you bring religion into it and call it a holy war. Many young, radical, angry Muslims are brainwashed at an early age to religiously hate the US. This is the EXCUSE, the brainwashing technique.
It is a political problem, not a religious one. Once religion comes into the picture, there cannot be a resolution because people become too fanatical about it.
So now, because it has become a holy war, either the US or the fanatical Muslims need to be destroyed. Unfortunately for the fanatics, it will be them.
The short term solution is to kill them. But the ideology canot be killed. The long term solution is to have Muslim leaders of the world actively promote peace and not just let their young get brainwashed by the likes of bin Laden.
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
The short term solution is to kill them. But the ideology canot be killed. The long term solution is to have Muslim leaders of the world actively promote peace and not just let their young get brainwashed by the likes of bin Laden.
Very valid point. The Muslim leaders should stop promoting hate & intolerance.
[This message has been edited by Johannes de Jong (edited September 14, 2001).]
omar khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
The Muslim leaders should stop promoting [b]hate & intolerance.
[/B]

Johannes, I agree. Leaders -be them Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, atheists and any creed I did not nominate- should stop spreading hatred.
Leaders that want peace should be supported.
Let's start in this forum.
To-day is the day of sorrow and mourn, not of blind hate.
Joseph Miller
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 21
interesting how Ronald Reagan's administration trained Bin Laden and groups like his to fight against the commies in afghanistan. a bad policy that now looks even worse. at least the US will know their tactics when they go to fight them - they'll be using US weapons against us.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Here.. This shows how Bin Laden gets that image and support...
http://news.indya.com/999614165951.html
Ashok.
 
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