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What about human rights in USA?

Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
What have happened for WTC and Pentagon is extremely wrong. Every human being accpts that.
As a result of this USA declared war and mobilising its forces.
Does anyone remember what had happened after bomb explosions in Mascow?
What is been happening in Israel and Palestina?
What is been happening in Kashmir in India?
Just like USA they also doing war against extremists. But every time USA teaching human rights lesson to them. What is USA doing now? What about killing a pakistani muslim in Dallas? What about killing an Indian sikh (Sikh dress code resembles Laden's dress code)? Is the media giving proper importance to those things?
Where are those human rights observers now? Are they sleeping?
soumya ravindranath
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Joined: Jan 26, 2001
Posts: 300
Good point.
I am surprised too by the lack of exposure media is giving to these events. If channels like CNN can sentimentalise/idolize even people queueing up to sign up for volunteering in Newyork, it could play bigger and more helpful role in educating common people about different nationalities and impress upon them not to go around committing hate crimes at times as this. (i am disturbed after hearing that my friend's car was damaged on saturday just because she has a couple of Hindu God stickers near the steering wheel. Cops cannot do anything about these things due to lack of evidence about the criminals !).
Angela Poynton
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Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
I don't know how much of this has been televised in the US but here in the UK I have seen our Prime Minister, President Bush and other important figures emphasise that they are now out to attack ALL Arabs, or ALL Muslims, just those who use violence in a vain attempt at making a point.
The ignorence of those who have carried out the attacks on individuals you mentioned above is inexcusable, but their anger is understandable. I don't condone any act of violence so don't misunderstand me. I believe the politicians and religious leaders of the countries that are standing by America have all made statments specifying that even though the Taliban and their supporters may consider any attack on them the beginning of a "Holy War" the war that is really being waged is not against any faith but against terrorism.
Unfortunatly there will always be those who are blinded by ignorance, and in the USA, I'm sure those people who carried out the attacks mentioned above will be dealt with according to the law.


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
Andy Ceponis
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Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
First of all, ive never heard of Mascow. So i dont know what your talking about there.
Secondly, where are you going with the isreali/kashmir thing? I dont really see how it relates.
"Is the media giving proper importance to those things?"
Id say so.There are hate crimes everyday in this country. They are all worng, and are being reported as such here. Why should there be more importance given to these acts? I see no reason.
And whose human rights are being trampled on here exactly? I dont see it. Anyone who might be committing crimes here will be punished just like the next guy.
omar khan
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Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
[b]I don't know how much of this has been televised in the US but here in the UK I have seen our Prime Minister, President Bush and other important figures emphasise that they are now out to attack ALL Arabs, or ALL Muslims, just those who use violence in a vain attempt at making a point.
Yes, but it is a fact that often Muslims and Arabs suffer from bad media coverage and prejudices.
Originally posted by Angela Poynton:

Unfortunatly there will always be those who are blinded by ignorance, and in the USA, I'm sure those people who carried out the attacks mentioned above will be dealt with according to the law.

I am also sure. There are more than seven million Muslim in US, many more Arabs and Asians. Nobody will want to create ethnical or religious tensions.
Andy Ceponis
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Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
Yes, but it is a fact that often Muslims and Arabs suffer from bad media coverage and prejudices.

It is also a fact that people of ALL nations/races suffer from bad media coverage at some point. That includes white Americans.
Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
I am also sure. There are more than seven million Muslim in US, many more Arabs and Asians. Nobody will want to create ethnical or religious tensions.

Whos creating religious tensions here? I must have different channels than you.
omar khan
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Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by Andy Ceponis:
Whos creating religious tensions here? I must have different channels than you.

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Andy,
What I wanted say here is the tragic incidents like WTC are being happen every where in the world. Whenever they happened the respective governments reacted like US.
Russia did the same thing on muslim millitants in Chechanya.
India is fighting with muslim millitants in Kashmir.
In this process there may have some human right violations. USA was very serious about them.

Andy Ceponis
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Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean.

I didnt understand what you meant in your first post, so now i dont understand what you dont understand about my not understanding. Get it?
TTT TTT
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 17, 2001
Posts: 2
Originally posted by Andy Ceponis:
I didnt understand what you meant in your first post, so now i dont understand what you dont understand about my not understanding. Get it?

Now, I don't understand what you don't understand about him not understanding about you not understanding.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936

cool down people.. good work TTT TTT - yeah I need a tea now.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Human Rights:
Andy,
What I wanted say here is the tragic incidents like WTC are being happen every where in the world.
Everyday 5,000 people are killed by terrorist attacks? Everyday 4 jumbo jest are deliberatley crashed into civilians? Wow! I am amazed.

Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Human Rights:
Is the media giving proper importance to those things?
The media is reporting on all these incidents which, I assume, is how you found out about them.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Tom,
Yes, so many incidents are there in the world. This is the biggest of all of them, because of terrorism more than 5000 are being killed.
All I am saying is here is the entire world ( leave some fu** nations like Iraq) are behind you to fight with terrorism, but you people pose like you are the only people concerned with that and you only know about it better than any other people. Why did US condemn the attack by Russia on Chechanya?
At least now join with other people to share your tragedy and fight with terrorism along with others not alone.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
hm... difficult for Americans to understand, I will say!
Dont get me wrong, I know you are a bunch of great people, people who decide where we should be in next century, people with will, wish, money and vision. But there is also another side of the coin..
Did you notice, when not less than 50,000 died in a villian earth quake in India last July, I don't think they got (10 times) or even equal to this event - media attention / publicity-wise... [ Yes, I am thankful to the whole world, including Pakistan for sending aid and support in time, though we coudn't change destiny of 1000s. That was really touching for us. ]
Hmm.. I understand, that this is the common nature of world, and I really do not doubt the sincerely of Prime Minister Tony Blair when he repeated each and everything that President Bush decided to publicize. Only thing is, it looks a bit of 'following-the-big-brother' blindly.. I agree PM is perfectly correct in his words and decisions, and that act of solidarity with Americans and for Brits who died there is absolutely necessary and just humane, but I would be more happy with him, if he had anounced act of War (that term - WAR) before President Bush calling it out himself... U know, that self-thinking-ness(!), element of individuality as one of the worlds oldest democracy... thats what was missing..
Ok, back to topic, so people die everwhere, in thousands, and all deserves equal treatment, everywhere.. but as its human nature to give more attention to something that glitters...
And if this is what 'Human Rights' had in his/her mind, I am with him/her.
I am not complaining.. Just sad !!

Ashok
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
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Originally posted by J Ash:
Did you notice, when not less than 50,000 died in a villian earth quake in India last July, I don't think they got (10 times) or even equal to this event - media attention / publicity-wise...
There is a difference between an act of God such as an earthquake or volcano and an act of man such as a terrorist attack.
And we are not pretending that we are the only people involved. Our president has actively sought help from all other countries. The US has tried to get other countries to fight terrorism but too many thought they could simply ignore the problem.
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Perhaps this got more media attention because there just IS more media in the US than most other countries. That and the fact that so many people saw it actually happening - live.
And it is possible that US media cares more about what happens in the US than elsewhere. I get the feeling that some find that strange - or wrong. I don't think that means that we don't acknowledge the awefullness of terrorism everywhere.
What happens in the US does impact the economies of other nations, making it a bigger news event for the non-US media.
In fact the US gets blamed for not helping other countries with terrorism when we try to stay out of it. And then we get blamed for sticking our arrogant opinions on others when stepping in.
Just no pleasing everyone.


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Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
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More than thousand people dead when bomb explosions took place in Bombay in 1993 by muslim militants, India said she has evidence against ISI. If USA want to truely fight with terrorism it would have instructed Pakistan to stop aid to terrorism in India.
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
But we can't just step in and tell other countries what to do unprovoked. We are NOT the worlds policemen. It was Indias place at that time to tell Pakistan not to give aid to the terrorists.
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
In other words, butt in to another countries problems. Just what many in these forums say is the cause of hatred toward US. Make up your minds either we get involved or we don't. Which is it. Quit talking out of both sides of your mouths. The fact is most of the world will complain whether we do something or don't. I for 1 am tired of reading about how we should solve all of the worlds problem then 2 posts later the bitching about how we should have stayed out of something. Explain how we could have done anything about Pakistan and India problems and not been involved at the same time. If we had the power to solve all the problems in the world, don't you think there would be a whole lot less of them.
Andy Ceponis
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Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Originally posted by J Ash:

Did you notice, when not less than 50,000 died in a villian earth quake in India last July, I don't think they got (10 times) or even equal to this event - media attention / publicity-wise...

Explain to me how you can possibly compare a natural disaster to an act of terrorism. Noone can do anything about natural disasters. And there isnt much point in trying to hold mother nature responsible.
Rosie Vogel
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Joined: Jan 31, 2001
Posts: 228
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
In other words, butt in to another countries problems. Just what many in these forums say is the cause of hatred toward US. Make up your minds either we get involved or we don't. Which is it. Quit talking out of both sides of your mouths. The fact is most of the world will complain whether we do something or don't. I for 1 am tired of reading about how we should solve all of the worlds problem then 2 posts later the bitching about how we should have stayed out of something. Explain how we could have done anything about Pakistan and India problems and not been involved at the same time. If we had the power to solve all the problems in the world, don't you think there would be a whole lot less of them.

Exactly! I am very tired of both non-westeners and so called liberal westeners (of which I normally am one) who choose this particular moment in time to get all critical about Western society in general and the US in particular. Don't you see that we're dealing with people who consider most of the world their enemy? That most probably means you too! They picked the US because they're considered "the leaders of the free world" but who knows where they'll strike next? Europe, Canada, India? This is not a time to be moaning about the US. It's time to realize that we have a common enemy and need to find out who it is and deal with him before it's too late!
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Cindy
Your views reflect a person who is perhaps ignorant and arrogant. I advice you to
step side instead of spreading hatred in the forum. Don't use your position as an advantage.
To you(Cindy) and also others who hold similar views(Paul Stevens and others) the world is not looking
at USA as GodFather or Big Brother who is going to solve their problems as they know it is not as good as it projects its image. They just doesn't want
USA to mess things in their countries which the USA was doing it for a long time.
I believe that many countries politically and economically think that the USA deserves it
and Humanly condemn the deaths of innocent people.
Though they may not have lost 5000 people on one day and collapse of big buildings but the damage done by USA collectively
on other countries was far beyond this. And it is that evaluation that makes people think that perhaps
they deserve it and atleast realize now and act in a better way.

Explain to me how you can possibly compare a natural disaster to an act of terrorism. Noone can do anything about natural disasters. And there isnt much point in trying to hold mother nature responsible.

The acts may be different but the result is same that is Human Loss and also economical loss.
I think your media is covering the result that is human loss which has never had such a
wide coverage and i think that is what the person wants to make a point.
Don't you think 50,000 is more when compared to 5000.
Your media is showing Human Loss by showing the persons with pics of their loved ones and also
the grief of people on the loss of thier loved ones.
I am surprised that 83% of american people want war. Because your enemy is hidden
in mountains you want to destroy that place.
What would have happened if the enemy also has twin towers like you. I think you don't hesitate
to retaliate the same way by plunging a plane into it. What difference it makes from you people
and the fanatics like Bin Laden and others who have killed innocent people. Does a barbaric act
has to be retaliated by a barbaric act. Isn't there any force above this to retaliate?

Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
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Where is Cindy spreading hatred. The only one with an arrogant attitude is you. Hiding behind XYZ XYZ. You are the one spreading things in this forum. Where did she say anything hateful, ignorant or arrogant. Every post you have made spews arrogance. Your know it all attitude. So you solve all of the worlds problems.
How horrible of the American media to mainly cover America. The media shows what the public wants to see by ratings. If stories don't increase ratings, they can't sell ad time. If the media covered mostly foreign affairs, the american public would tune out and ratings would drop. It has nothing at all to do with world events being tragic or not.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Your know it all attitude. So you solve all of the worlds problems.

I am not projecting a know it all attitude. I have admitted my
knowledge and my ignorance. It is you who is showing arrogance
as you are not able to take others expressing in a different way or tolerate a different point of view.
It is you guys who said we cannot solve others problems they need to take care of themselves. You guys have that know it all attitude and arrogance and certainly spreading hatred.
I was quite neutral in my position right from the beginning and mind you i am not arrogant and i don't judge others because of the differences.
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Cindy
Your views reflect a person who is perhaps ignorant and arrogant. I advice you to
step side instead of spreading hatred in the forum. Don't use your position as an advantage.
Again where has Cindy shown any of those things. And whether you think you are or not your are showing a no it all attitude. Any who don't see things your way are labeled. Like you did Cindy. Give examples support your case. The only one name calling I see is you.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
I had a problem posting with that name so xyz1 xyz1.
And whether you think you are or not your are showing a no it all attitude.

That depends on how you took my posts and your understanding of it. I am for sure that i didn't project
a know it all attitude and i admitted my ignorance too.
Any who don't see things your way are labeled. Like you did Cindy.


That is completely wrong of you. My views were infact deleted when i first posted it
and later, Tony, Thomas paul and many others have opposed it too. I didn't label any one of
them nor i said them to step aside though i felt tony's views as( of a radical person)
I even expressed 'sorry' to Thomas pauls one if i sounded more like american bashing.
I stand on my opinion that Cindy views does reflect arrogance and ignorance.


Perhaps this got more media attention because there just IS more media in the US than most other countries.


Ignorance. Most of the countries saw it live on their local channels too.

What happens in the US does impact the economies of other nations, making it a bigger news event for the non-US media.

Ignorance. The US economy also gets effected by other countries too. example the US market
plunged when there was earthquake in Taiwan(I don't remember the exact date) but did not get much media attention in US.

In fact the US gets blamed for not helping other countries with terrorism when we try to stay out of it. And then we get blamed for sticking our arrogant opinions on others when stepping in.

Ignorance and arrogance and spreading hatred.

But we can't just step in and tell other countries what to do unprovoked. We are NOT the worlds policemen. It was Indias place at that time to tell Pakistan not to give aid to the terrorists.

Know it all attitude , arrogance and ignorance and spreading hatred.

Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
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Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
xyz xyz and xyz1 xyz1 (to both of you )
First, I am not an American. Next, there are certainly ignorant and arrogant Americans, like in any other nation in the world. According to my personal observations, no more than in other nations, maybe even less. But Americans are often perceived as "ignorant and arrogant", and your posts show it yet another time. It also shows that all too often they are perceived this way without reason. I read Cindy's posts and did not find anything particularly ignorant and arrogant in them. Maybe she was slightly irritated, but it is hard to respond calmly to your posts. You express yourself in such a harsh manner that you make it almost impossible to agree with you. And if you do not want American people to agree, then what is the ultimate mission of your posts? Just hurt them?

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Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944

But Americans are often perceived as "ignorant and arrogant", and your posts show it yet another time.

I have not generalized it on american people. FYI, i just said Cindy's posts are ignorant and arrogant and i have
explained it why i hold such opinion. Though everyone opposed it i haven't said that to all.

You express yourself in such a harsh manner that you make it almost impossible to agree with you.

I might have been blunt(because of the freedom of unknown(xyz xyz) )
but it is you guys(all) who opposed me completely and harsh towards me and labelled
me as arrogant.

what is the ultimate mission of your posts? Just hurt them?

I don't have a mission like Bin Laden or americans ).
I just expressed my views. I wonder why you all blame me
when Tony and others expressed there anger you felt it is natural.
It is you guys who are hurting me and saying all kinds of things.
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by xyz1 xyz1:
I have not generalized it on american people.

Perhaps I misunderstood your "You guys have that know it all attitude and arrogance and certainly spreading hatred" - maybe you addressed it to somebody personally. I wondered why you saw Cindy's posts as ignorant and arrogant and the only explanation I had was that you see what you expect to see. But of course, that can be a mistake also.
I just expressed my views. I wonder why you all blame me when Tony and others expressed there anger you felt it is natural.
Hey, Cindy was one of those who were disagree with Tony! We should have reacted more strongly to Tony's posts, true. We did not because... well, everybody probably had their own reasons, for me there was something incomprehensible in his reactions, they were too exaggerated. When somebody is getting too emotional, it is useless to talk to him/her, so I (personally) decided to wait a little when he calm down. Later we discussed this in MO forum and Tony explained that he lost his friend in this attack and this caused his posts. He said we can delete them if we think they are harmful.
There were other similar posts and if we did not respond, it's not because we agree with them, the opposite, they were blatantly impossible to agree with. If somebody said that 2 x 2 will be 5, there are good chances that others would consider themselves too busy to prove otherwise
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited September 17, 2001).]
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Oh gee xyz, were your feelings hurt? I'm shocked, after all the diplomacy you've shown us. It's good to know you weren't generalizing about Americans previously when you posted repeatedly about our "thirst for world domination". And let's not forget "There is no enemy to your country but your own evil deeds." You say that to a group of Americans (not exclusively, but in large numbers) just two days after the attacks, and you don't understand why people get angry? Golly, I can't imagine why we all didn't immediately see the error of our ways. The thing is, you may have some valid points, but you lose huge amounts of credibility with your extreme statements and wild generalizations. If you really are trying to do anything here other than make people mad, you have a lot to learn about tact and timing.
As for why we treat Tony differently than you - let's see. Tony has just suffered a major personal loss. If you have, you haven't mentioned it. Tony has also been around here a long time, and has a lengthy track record for helping others. All we know of you, on the other hand, are your recent posts, which frankly do not encourage much sympathy. If Tony had appeared from nowhere saying some of the things he did, then many of us would have reacted more strongly against those posts from the beginning. But he's earned a good deal of respect from us, and we were trying to figure out how to defuse the situation more peaceably.
One particular thing I do agree with Tony on is that people who want to be taken seriously on this forum have a much better chance of it if they post using registered accounts. No it's not a requirement that you use a registered account here. But it's also not required that we take you seriously. We allow unregistered posts because this is Meaningless Drivel, and people can make frivolous posts here if they want to. Doesn't mean we have to read them, or value their opinions. If a post wasn't worth putting a name on, it often isn't worth others taking time to consider it carefully either. Registering also prevents others from being able to forge posts from you, since they won't have the password. And allows you to edit your posts after you make them, in case you find you've posted something foolish which you'd like to revise. Just a thought...
[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited September 18, 2001).]


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Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
I should also say that although "Human Rights" is also unregistered and seems to have a number of opinions similar to those of "xyz", I take his opinions more seriously simply because he manages to use a bit more tact and avoids the excesses which "xyz" is prone to. So I guess there's some hope for unregistered posters, even when posting things we Americans don't like to hear.
And no, I'm not assuming that "Human Rights" is necessarily male. Many of us do use "he" for a person of unknown gender, simply because it's simpler than saying "he or she" each time. And it seems more respectful than "it". Deal with it.
omar khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
There were other similar posts and if we did not respond, it's not because we agree with them, the opposite, they were blatantly impossible to agree with. If somebody said that 2 x 2 will be 5, there are good chances that others would consider themselves too busy to prove otherwise
[/B]

Map, this I do not agree. IMHO, since we are all educated people and nerds , we should stop the downward spiral of hate and set an example to laymen. This can also be done by isolating and showing disagreement on hate-posts. This is what I am trying to do.
 
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