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Want to stop terrorism?

Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31

I have received several e-mails the past several days asking me to dress up in red white and blue on a certain day or honk my horn real loud at a certain hour so we can show the world that we won't be intimidated by terrorists. Frankly, these things are a waste of time. If we really want to do something that will show the world we are united and at the same time hurt terrorism it should be this: on Saturday September 22, 2001 do not use oil. This means don't drive your car! Why?
1) If we do this for just 1 day it will cost the Middle East billions of dollars. It will prove that when we get hurt it will hurt the Middle East as well.
2) Many oil-rich sheiks support terrorists financially.
3) These countries don't want to lose money so this will make the Middle East more likely to want to stop terrorism by supplying intelligence and support.
During World War II people in this country were willing to make great sacrifices. Are you willing to go 1 day without gas? Remember don't drive your car period on Saturday, September 22, 2001. This is something that will truly show the world that we are united, and fight terrorism at the same time.
Send this to everyone in your address book.
P.S. Some have questioned the effectiveness of 1 day. Make no mistake if we are united 1 day will make a difference. However, there is nothing to stop us from using as little oil as possible in the next few months. This will make it clear to the Middle East that our problem is their problem as well, and helping us stop this is in their best interest.

For those of you in other countries the people of the United States appreciate your support!
Jake the Snake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Dude, Your post have not gone unnoticed!
The proposal is just too stupid for anyone to give it any significance.
By the way, Bin Laden's objective is to get US out of Persian Golf and Saudi Arabia peninsula.
zulfiqar raza
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
For every 1 Euro of oil sold in European countries 70% of the profits go into the coffers of the European government in form of taxes and profit to the European oil companies. I assume the numbers are similar of US government and oil companies. So what you suggest will actually hurt the Western governments immense profits also.
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Comeon Jake. The intention is good. It is just that it would probably hurt more American business folks than it would hurt anyone in the Middle East.


"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

Wasn't this posted a few days ago?


-Nate


-Nate
Write once, run anywhere, because there's nowhere to hide! - /. A.C.
Jake the Snake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
I am sorry but narrow-mindedness really iritates me sometime.
This is probably the typical american reaction which is quite funny. I don't think you have any idea how serious the whole situation actually is. I don't think that typical American is aware just how widely the anti-Semitism and anti-American sentiment is spread out out there.
You have brainwashed Muslim who is ready to strap a bomb around his belly in the name of Allah and on the other hand you have Ken who will not buy gasoline this weekend!
You better watch out Bin Laden, here we come!!!

[This message has been edited by Jake the Snake (edited September 18, 2001).]
zulfiqar raza
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
I dont know what you are worried about. Yes a terrible tragedy has occurred in NYC. But the number of people that will now die in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. as a result of this will dwarf by comparison what has hapenned in NYC.
This has only made life difficult for Muslims in the Western countries and for the people in these Islamic countries as well. US killed over a 100,000 Iraqis in the Gulf war, not to mention the the use of depleted Uranium which continues to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis every year.
Now simply expect these depleted uranium weapons to used liberaly over Afghanistan (and Pakistan if it does not comply) and most likely even on the Palestinians. Arab countries will most likely reduce the price of oil even more to appease the Western powers (they already announced that), and help fuel the recovery. The Palestinians will loose all and any support they may have gained because of Israeli excesses.
The Palestinians are, in the words of Robert Fisk, a doomed nation. They have lost there lands and now they will loose their lives. Remember that over 10 million South East Asians died in the Western involvement in the South East Asia. Expect the same to happen in the Middle East (although their population is very low).
What can Pakistan do with its puny arsenal of Nuclear weapons when a joint US-Israeli-Indian strike will wipe out its delivery capability. Maybe Pakistan can use a donkey cart ;-).
This blast is practically a gift for those who wish to destroy these Arab/Islamic countries already suffering from centuries of destruction. So enjoy your SUV's and let the good times roll :-).
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Hundreds of thousands every year?
How did you come about that number? You are saying that millions have died since the gulf war in Iraq. Care to back those numbers up with facts.
zulfiqar raza
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
DU as a Cancer Weapon
---------------------
Paul there have been several documenataries shown on BBC which have showed the rampant spread of cancer in Iraq after the Gulf war. If you get BBC you might have seen such documenatries. Young men with lumps the size of watermelons on their throats is a common sight in Iraqi health clinics. Also a lot of people believe that the 'Gulf war syndrome' is the result of US troops handling these DU weapons.
As regard to the numbers this is one reference I found:
"If the US has been keeping silent, the Brits haven't been. A 1991 study by the UK Atomic Energy Authority predicted that if less than 10 percent of the particles released by depleted uranium weapons used in Iraq and Kuwait were inhaled it could result in as many as "300,000 probable deaths."
Its from :
http://www.counterpunch.org/du.html
Depleted Uranium weapons is one weapon. Combine that with sanctions, lack of medicine and food, repeated and regular bombings of Iraq since the end of Gulf war.

[This message has been edited by zulfiqar raza (edited September 19, 2001).]
Andy Ceponis
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Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
The only way to stop terrorism is to turn all terrorist countries into a big sheet of glass and pave it so we can have more parking spaces for our SUV's.
zulfiqar raza
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Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
There ya go ! :-) also its probably much nicer than a slow and painful death through cancer ;-) and lack of medicine !
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
That is still less than the hundreds of thousands a YEAR that you stated. I was pointing out that your numbers were flawed not that nothing happened. I still doubt the 300,000 number as well though. I trust numbers coming from the media and politicians about as far as I can throw them.
zulfiqar raza
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
I wasn't directly referring to the article I found when I wrote that. So sorry for being off. In additions these are not written by politicians or the regular US media but the citation is from UK atomic energy sources, at least in this article. It also cites the UNICEF (united nation children agency) studies which states that Iraqi children are dying at a rate of 180 / day from 19th century disease such as measles etc. 180/day is 65,700 per year, that is only the children.. I have read many other Western reports that over 600,000 children have died. I have seen on 20/20 and 60 minutes reports on "Gulf war syndrome" in which they showed American Veterans children born totally deformed.
So I think Andy has the right idea.
Ken Bates
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Jake the Snake:
You made quite a few comments one saying that I don't realize the seriousness of the issue. First of all I think I know the seriousness of the issue much more than you. I am former Navy Seal and have worked in counter-terrorism for many years. What have you done? Obviously not buying gas for a day is not going to solve the problem. Anyone who tells you they know exactly how to solve the problem is lying. However, as American we should do whatever we can to help. For example, one very useful thing you can do to help is fly on an airline. I will not go in to the reason why, but this would be helpful although it would not hurt terrorism directly. Using as little oil as possible would also be helpful. Here are the reasons why:
1) Inflicting some economic turmoil in the Middle East will wake many Middle Easterns to the fact that this is everybody's problem.
2) The Midlle East has turn a blind eye to the terrorist problem. Much of this problem could have been cleaned up by them, but they ignored it.
3) My guess is there are people who could have informed, but choose not to. If they had known that it would hurt them finacially then they might have been more likely to help. And in the future might be more likely to help.
4) If this is to be a protracted war we will need the assistants of as many countries in the Middle East as possible. Many of the countries that are supporting us now could easily turn on us if they feel we are being too aggressive or if we are spending too much time fight this war. The more these countries feel that it is vital to the economy to fight the more assistance we will have.
5) Although some U.S business would be hurt if we used as little oil as possible the Middle East would be devestated. Their economies run soley on oil.
6) Even if you reject all of the other premises you would have to agree that U.S dependence on oil is out of control. If the Middle East decided to stop shipping oil to us they could shut our ecomomy down. By decreasing our reliance on oil we become stronger. This will not happen if you don't buy gas for one day, but if start thinking in terms that buying oil hurts this country than people might start looking for alternative sources.
7) Doing an act of sacrifice to me is a real show of unity. Sure hang a flag from your window, but where is the sacrfice? How does this really show that we are in this together and we are willing to do what it takes? If I saw people in this country giving up there conviences for a day I would really feel like there was some unity.
Everybody likes to be a critic. If you want to be helpful why don't you give us some advice rather than just shooting down my ideas.
Thanks
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Ken Bates:
<snip>
5) Although some U.S business would be hurt if we used as little oil as possible the Middle East would be devestated. Their economies run soley on oil.

I could have selected several parts, but lets stick with this quote.
You want to stop terrorism by harming the economy of the entire Middle East. I'm sure Kuwait and the others will understand. You're doing it for the good of the USA after all.
Oh and Andy: if that's your view, pray that no terrorist ever gets hold of a nuke. I'm hoping you were just looking for attention since I think it was an incredibly stupid comment.
Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Ken, I am not trying to shoot down your ideas but that one is so dumb for number of reasons. Sticking to it, you are just making yourself look worse.
How you fight this war?
I think you fight it 99% on the inteligence front and 1% battle field. You have to first eliminate all radical muslims on this continent and only then do anything else. I think that all this movement of force to Persian golf and Indian ocean is nothing else but muscle flexing. I hope that Colin Powel is smart enough to never send ground troups becasue America will be embarrassed. There is a vast precentage of American population that is waiting for something to be done so that is why we see this quick movement of force. It really won't change much but give deceptive confidence to people here and at the same time maybe create few more radical muslims.
I know that Bush have spoken and spirits are high but the facts are very different.
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Devil's Advocate:
I wasn't sure if you were agreeing with me or being sarcastic. You mention my point number 5 by saying "I'm sure Kuwait and the others will understand." refering to boycotting oil. Who cares what Kuwait thinks. While American citizens were risking their lives to liberate their country the Kuwaite men were partying in European discos. This was shown on several Media programs like 60 miniutes. Countries like Kuwait have acted shamefully and have done little if anything to assist us in fighting terrorism. This is really a Middle East problem and with the execption of Israel the Middle East has done squat to stop it. Many of the governments of these countries have stated they are against it, but many of the people are publicly or privately in favor of it. Until these countries can see that it has an affect on them as well we should expect lip service, but not much else.
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Jake the snake:
You stated my idea "is so dumb for number of reasons. Sticking to it, you are just making yourself look worse." You never mentioned the reasons and you never refuted my points. Please go through my points 1-7 and tell me what is wrong logically with each one. It is easy to call my ideas dumb and shoot your mouth off, but it is harder to actually prove your point. I asked what you would suggest to do and you came back with some option for the military. Well are you in the military or in a position that would have influence? If not what is the point of that. If you want to help, give suggestions that people, who would be on a java web site, can do. I have given two suggestions 1) use less oil and 2) fly on an airline. You have given none. Like I said it is easy to be a critic and hard to be a leader. Gives us your suggest, but don't post it as a response post it by itself as I originally did. That is what a true leader and stand up guy would do.
I agree with your assement that intelligence will be a huge part of this "war". Although I don't know where you came up with the number 99%. Our agencies have found it very difficult to get intelligence on terrorist cells. Most of our information comes from Middle Eastern countries. Unfortanetly, this intelligence is not a big concern for these countries. Most is not given freely, but we have to pay through the nose to get it. Why? Because the Middle East hasn't viewed this as their problem. Unitl we convince them that this is their problem as well the intelligence will be short comming and we will have to spend lots of tax dollars to get it.
One final point. There is something that is refered to as Power Thinking. This is where you try NOT to draw conclusions until you have enough information. When you think about it, when you draw a conclusion you have really stopped thinking. And when do have enough information to draw a conclusion? I would say we never have enough infromation. This being the case we should not draw conclusions until we have to (like when we vote) and then after we so you should continue to keep our mind open. I mention this because you seem to have these strong opinions and yet how much information do you have about it? What is the last book you read on terrorism? Have you worked in the intelligence field? Do you have a grasp of geopoltics? Do you even know what geopolitics is? I say all this because the day before this event I was telling some people that this country needs to wake up to terrorism, and that what we saw in Oklahoma City was nothing. All of the people disagreed, which I thought was arrogant due to the fact that they had so little information on the subject. All of those people know see the error of there thinking, but most of the American public doesn't see the error of their thinking, and has instantly become a expert on the subject and knows exactly what should be done.

Ken Bates
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
I just pulled this off CNN:
"Diplomatic sources said Saudi Arabia could make an announcement in the coming days about changing its relationship with the Taliban. The United States wants Saudi Arabia to break off diplomatic relations with the Taliban. Also, Saudi Arabia has not yet explicitly stated its support for the United States to use a Saudi air base in a possible attack against Afghanistan or any other countries suspected of harboring terrorists."
If Saudi Arabia had been hurt economically there would have been no such discussion. The fact that they are still deciding whether to break off diplomatic relations with a regime as odious as the Taliban demonstrates that support from the Middle East is tenuous at best. Until they experience some dramatic backlash from this event we should not expect their full support. Simce they technically are our ally the governement has few options. But if the people of the US decide to boycot oil we would have a lot more levearge. Just something to think about.

Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

Let's see:


  • 1. How much of the U.S. population do you think will voluntarily go along with this plan of yours? Half? Not likely... A third? Probably not... Even if you got on TV to blab this scheme to the masses, probably less than 1% of the American population would voluntarily go along with this... How much of an impact do you think that would be? About like a gnat ramming an elephant...
  • 2. Do you think businesses that rely on oil, like airlines, taxis, buses, package delivery, and truck drivers will voluntarily go along with this? Some power plants use oil... are you going to suggest that they shut down their generators, or that people do without electricity, too?
  • 3. Other countries use oil... If the Middle East can't sell it to the U.S. they'll sell it to someone else... Oh, wait... maybe you can suggest that the whole world stop using oil for one day...
  • 4. Oil that we use does not come directly from the Middle East to the pump... oil companies buy it, refine it into different types of oil, perhaps ship it out right away or put it in reserve. There is going to be a tremendous wait time between 'The Day Without Oil' and any effect felt in the Middle East. In fact, unless you get the oil companies to stop buying oil on that day also, all that will basically happen is that they will build up their reserve, and it will not impact the Middle East at all.
  • 5. The people making money off the oil in the Middle East already have alot of money. Their kids aren't going to starve if you don't buy oil for one day. They aren't going to lose their house because they can't pay the rent. All that's going to happen is that they're going to have to wait a few more days before buying their fifth private jet or Rolls Royce.
  • 6. Once again, I'll mention the biggest problem with your scheme... The one that's been mentioned over and over, repeatedly since you proposed this... You are suggesting that the U.S. stop using oil for one day to hurt the economy of the Middle East. All the businesses that will have to shut down for this, and all the people that aren't going to be going to work will hurt the U.S. economy a great deal too... in fact, this plan would probably hurt the U.S. economy more at this point than it would hurt the economy of the countries in the Middle East... To bring up the gnat and elephant analogy again... Which do you think feels the greater impact?


  • Does this finally open your eyes?
    -Nate
Ken Bates
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
First off your points are not based on reality. You have no knowledge of OPEC, the Middle East, or business.
1) Your first point is that people in this country don't have the resolve. If this is the case we ought to just leave the country and let the terrorist move in because it not worth saving anyway.
All you points from there on are ridculous.
2) Who said anything about business not using oil? I'm saying the American people to lessen it's use of oil starting with one day. I never said business needs to join in and obviosly it never would.
3) You claim that other countries buy oil. If the United States stop buying oil from now on the Middle East would go bankrupt. Do know how much of the Middle East's oil production is directly shipped to the US? I didn't think so.
4) This really showw that you do not have knowledge in this field. It okay that you are not knowledgeable, but do not pretend to be. You are saying if we use less oil it will not affect OPEC. This is patently wrong. Will it affect them today? Yes, it will if you know about commondities. Will it affect them 6 months from now? Yes, because if we use less oil we buy less oil. As simple as that. Your argument is like saying it would be futile to boycott Lucky Charms cereal because the supermarkets have already bought the cereal and it would only hurt the supermarkets not General Mills. Wake up!
5) I have mentioned several times that the idea is to start with a day and then get this notion on peoples mind that buying oil for the next several months is bad. If people used 10% less gas in the next 6 months it would translate in to hundreds of billions of dollars lost in the Middle East. Will people in the Middle East starve? No and this is not the point. The point is to give the Middle East a wake up call that this is their problem as well. If fact, it was all their probelm, but they refused to do anything about it and now we are once again forced to act. By the way the people who stand the most to lose would be the people who would be most influencial.
7) I'm sorry but you really don't have knowledge of economics. You state if we stop using oil it will hurt our economy more than the Middle Easts economy! You must be kidding. You must understand that 100% of their captial comes from oil. In 100 years when the oil runs out that region will be decimated. Our ecomomy will not be decimated 100 years from now when oil runs out, because we don't have a 1-sided economy. If we started using less oil would it hurt certain companies like Exxon? Yes. But it would hurt the Middle East thousand of times more.
You obviously don't like the idea that is fine. If you want to argue it you should really have some grasp of the issue. Honestly ask yourself how much knowledge do you have about this? I will make the same statement I have made to Jake the Snake to which he has not responded, because the reality is he has no idea what he is talking about. Tell us what you would advise the American public to do to help stop terrorism. Don't give advice for the military or the president because that is useless. Give the American people advice on what they can do to help the cause. Don't post it as a response, but post it on the board for all to see.

omar khan
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Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
I think that using less oil is a great idea. Environment will improve.
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
Yes I agree there are other added benefits that I havn't even metioned. Personally I see no downside to this. The US government has been telling us for years to lessen our dependence on oil. Our national speed limits were lowered to 55 just to save oil. Anyone who knows what they are talking about knows this country has a problem with oil. The Middle East has a choke hold on the west. Many of our NATO allies are backpeddling as far as support for this "war" goes, because of fear of what will happen in regards to oil. If we don't make this a problem for the Middle East as well it will never end.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Ken Bates
Are you really a NAVY SEAL? LOL....You know nothing about anything.
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121



These numbers were from 1995, but I feel that they are probably representative of the current situation. Looks like North America buys approximately 12% of the oil from the Middle East. That includes Canada and Mexico, in addition to oil used by businesses in America. Looks like the Middle East is still going to have lots of buyers.


4) This really showw that you do not have knowledge in this field. It okay that you are not knowledgeable, but do not pretend to be. You are saying if we use less oil it will not affect OPEC. This is patently wrong. Will it affect them today?
Yes, it will if you know about commondities. Will it affect them 6 months from now? Yes, because if we use less oil we buy less oil.


How is a limited one day trend going to affect oil prices in the long term? We're going to use as much oil as before the days, weeks, and monthes after 'The Day Without Oil'. There may be a small drop in the price of oil in the short term, depending on how many people do this, but nothing long term.


5) I have mentioned several times that the idea is to start with a day and then get this notion on peoples mind that buying oil for the next several months is bad. If people used 10% less gas in the next 6 months it would translate in to hundreds of billions of dollars lost in the Middle East. Will people in the Middle East starve? No and this is not the point. The point is to give the Middle East a wake up call that this is their problem as well. If fact, it was all their probelm, but they refused to do anything about it and now we are once again forced to act. By the way the people who stand the most to lose would be the people who would be most influencial.


I agree that we need to reduce America's need for oil. Lots of people have realized this, and have tried to convince people to use less oil. However, I really doubt that "it hurts the Middle East economy" will be any more of a motivation to do this than "it hurts the environment" or "it kills sweet baby seal pups". Besides, developing cars that run on alternitive fuels, or selling your SUV to buy a car that gets better gas milage is alot better long term solution to this than what you propose. Besides... if you really want to see where America gets most of it's oil check out the Department of Energy website. Wow! It looks like we only import about 28% of our oil from the Persian Gulf! Look at the list of countries... Even if your boycott worked... how is it only going to affect only Middle Eastern countries? But oh, who cares... all of them are probably harboring terrorists, or are antagonistic to the U.S. anyway, so it serves them right...


7) I'm sorry but you really don't have knowledge of economics. You state if we stop using oil it will hurt our economy more than the Middle Easts economy! You must be kidding. You must understand that 100% of their captial comes from oil. In 100 years when the oil runs out that region will be decimated. Our ecomomy will not be decimated 100 years from now when oil runs out, because we don't have a 1-sided economy. If we started using less oil would it hurt certain companies like Exxon? Yes. But it would hurt the Middle East thousand of times more.


Here's a paragraph that states exactly why you are wrong about this...

For the last decade or so, Gulf monarchies have invested higher percentages of oil profits in land, hotels, real estate, factories, and other enterprises in the U.S., Europe, Japan, and elsewhere. As a result, increasing income of the oil-exporting states is linked to profits from unrelated businesses in oil-importing states rather than from the sale of oil itself. This gives the Gulf oil states some stake in keeping oil prices relatively moderate, since they share financial interests in the oil-importing countries. This diversification also provides the Gulf states additional leverage to manipulate oil prices and production. The result is that the monarchies can manipulate the world oil markets while remaining relatively protected.


Doesn't look like 100% of their income comes from oil... but then, I got that paragraph from a report written by someone from theCenter for Contemporary Arab Studies at Georgetown University and he has an Arabic sounding name, so he is obviously biased and lying.


You obviously don't like the idea that is fine. If you want to argue it you should really have some grasp of the issue. Honestly ask yourself how much knowledge do you have about this?


Maybe you should ask yourself the same question. I now have more knowledge on this subject than when I started, and I thank you for that. However, none of the knowledge I have uncovered has indicated that the plan you propose will succeed.


I will make the same statement I have made to Jake the Snake to which he has not responded, because the reality is he has no idea what he is talking about. Tell us what you would advise the American public to do to help stop terrorism. Don't give advice for the military or the president because that is useless. Give the American people advice on what they can do to help the cause. Don't post it as a response, but post it on the board for all to see.


I've already given my advice to the American public... act as you normally would. Don't freak out and stop flying. Don't stare suspiciously at every vaguely Arabian looking person. Don't come up with crackpot schemes to "show your support", or "get back at the Arabs". The terrorists had three objectives:

  • Destruction - destroy planes, buildings, and lives.
  • Terror - Make the American public feel like "it could be me next time."
  • Confusion - Harm American polical and financial stability.


  • Their first objective has been accomplished, but the other two will not unless the American public go along with it. Unfortunately, many are, as are evidenced by the continous coverage of any event distantly related to this, the recent witch-hunt for terrorists, warnings to watch out for fire engines, crop dusters, and now HazMat transport trucks, and schemes like this. The easiest way to combat this is to try and behave normally.

    I don't see why I should post this as a seperate thread, because I have mentioned this before in other threads.

    -Nate
    [This message has been edited by Nathan Pruett (edited September 26, 2001).]
Paul Ralph
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Joined: Aug 10, 2000
Posts: 312
Nathan: Bravo! A well-researched and thought-out reply.
Ken: You don't need to be condescending to make a thoughtful argument. Comments like "not based on reality", "ridiculous", and "Wake up!" will only make you look bad, not increase the strength of your argument.
Paul R
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
Okay I had it with you nitwits. Nathan I appreciate the research you did, but it is not correct. I'm not sure where you got your information. Here is better source of information that is put out by the government Energy Information Administration
Your solution of going back to watching football games and staring at TV set frankly scares me. You are proposing what the media has been pushing down our throats. That is tolerance and acceptance. We are becoming a nation of brainwashed pupets who are lossing our will to fight. Where is the sense of outrage? Your idea that if we don't remain numb to this whole event we are playing in to the terrorist hands is absurd. What will it take for you to react? If a nuclear bomb goes off in your city tommorow are you going to get and go to work so as to not let the terrorists win?
I would like to go through and argue with each of your points, but I've had it. It is becoming a huge waste of my time. My feeling is quite a few of you are young and don't have a lot of experience in the world. A lot of you couldn't even handle yourself in a street fight let alone know you to fight 11th century barbarians.
Hey Paul I'm sorry if you are offend by my shoot from the hip approach, but get over it! This is no time to pull punches. We have become a society of de-balled citizens who can hardly act in fear of offending someone. How can a country who has to change the name of its War (operation infinite justice) for fear of offending some people combat an enmey that play by no rules whatsoever except to win?
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Ken, how old are you? Just curious.


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Bartholemu Smith
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Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
To Ken Bates:
HAHAHAA...Man your funny...
Long live Master Bates
[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 26, 2001).]
Eager Beaver
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Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 187
Ken,
I certainly appreciate your point of view. I can see that a few feckless and sensitive wimps want you to sound sweet and affable but do not worry, for movements/ideas like yours are for the brave hearts. Honking is a naively stupid idea and possibly goes down well with some kids here.
Stevie Kaligis
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Joined: Feb 04, 2001
Posts: 400
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
Ken, how old are you? Just curious.

Map...
that's naughty... giggle ... giggle
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Folks,
At least acknowledge that Ken is trying to do something PROACTIVE in support of this effort.
While I personally do not believe that this is the way, at least he is trying to think of something, and not just sitting around waiting for Bush to do it all for us.
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121


Okay I had it with you nitwits. Nathan I appreciate the research you did, but it is not correct. I'm not sure where you got your information. Here is better source of information that is put out by the government Energy Information Administration


I really need to get back to work, too... I also enjoyed the link you posted, but it doesn't invalidate any of the information I gave. According to the information on that site, around 44% of all oil goes to gasoline. What percentage of that is going to be affected by a boycott? Also, even though an enormous amount of oil is present in the Middle East ( as shown by the graph about oil reserves at about 14 times what is in N. America ), the production of oil by that same region is not as large ( as shown by the graph about oil production at about twice what is produced in N. America ).


Your solution of going back to watching football games and staring at TV set frankly scares me. You are proposing what the media has been pushing down our throats.


Personally, I hate football. And television. Especially news programs... I am proposing that Americans continue working, buying stocks, buying goods, travelling, and not freaking out when they see Arabian-looking people. The media has mentioned this to a small extent, but the majority of their coverage is sensationalist and alarmist ( and quite often wrong... ). I see your plan as much more media-influenced than mine does.


That is tolerance and acceptance.


Everyone knows that is a horrible thing...


We are becoming a nation of brainwashed pupets who are lossing our will to fight. Where is the sense of outrage? Your idea that if we don't remain numb to this whole event we are playing in to the terrorist hands is absurd.


I have a sense of outrage over this horrible event, but I am tired of those who can't deal with their own feelings of vengence, rage, and paranoia. Unless, "numb" is "normal" to you, that isn't what I'm proposing...


What will it take for you to react? If a nuclear bomb goes off in your city tommorow are you going to get and go to work so as to not let the terrorists win?


How are the terrorists going to get a nuclear device into the U.S.? No matter how much current events may resemble it, we're not living in a Tom Clancy political thriller... Yet more sensationalism spread by the media...


I would like to go through and argue with each of your points, but I've had it. It is becoming a huge waste of my time.


As it is mine...


My feeling is quite a few of you are young and don't have a lot of experience in the world.


I would ask your age, but it looks like Map already has... and you would probably ignore it like you ignored my request for any revelant credentials you have in global politics, economics, or terrorism...


A lot of you couldn't even handle yourself in a street fight let alone know you to fight 11th century barbarians.


How does this have anything to do with the discussion? And what the heck are these 11th century barbarians doing here?

Hey Paul I'm sorry if you are offend by my shoot from the hip approach, but get over it! This is no time to pull punches. We have become a society of de-balled citizens who can hardly act in fear of offending someone.


Yeah! Right on! KILL KILL KILL!
It sounds like you're thinking more with the organs you mentioned our society to be bereft of than with the one in your head...


How can a country who has to change the name of its War (operation infinite justice) for fear of offending some people combat an enmey that play by no rules whatsoever except to win?


I thought that they changed the name because the Japanese ambassador thought it sounded like the title of a badly translated anime? ( New Name - Operation: All Your Base Are Belong To Us )

For Great Justice!
-Nate
Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
Nate ROCKS!!
Good post man.
I dont know about the rest of you people but I am really drained talking about this subject. Its horrible but its so complex at the same time. On a final note for me. I think its time that American / Canadian / Western Muslims said something to the East / Arab conutries. The community in general has to fight back against these radical groups and seperate them from a highjacked religion.
 
wood burning stoves
 
subject: Want to stop terrorism?
 
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