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anti-terrorism call

Anuj Anand
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Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 96
Well this question is for all Americans:
Do u think India is going to be a superpower soon and that whether USA should side with India or Pakistan in case they have to make a choice...
Also do Americans sympathize with the Kashmir cause and realize that pakistan funds terorists which kills thousands in India
Greg Harris
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Joined: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 1012
we are not siding with India or Pakistan... we need Pakistan to allow us to fly our jets through their air-space. that is the shortest route from the water, so Pakistan is the obvious choice.
if you listen to Colin Powell when he talks about this issue he says things like, "We know they (Iran, Syria, etc.) support other forms of terrorism... and we will deal with that in due time..." i am sure this includes other countries like Pakistan as well.
Pakistan is making a lot of requests in order for us to use their air-space... we have not (and i am sure will not) agree to terms such as forgetting the $30b debt and Kashmir.


what?
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Bush has said that he is going to poll every country and ask them if they are with us in this fight against terrorism. If they are not with us, then they are against us.
I expect both Pakistan and India to line up with us. That will suddenly make them allies. Of course each may have to give up any personal terrorist involvements that they previously may have been involved in. Should solve lots of problems.


"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
I think Cindy has made a good point here. We will forget what Pakistan may or may not have done in the past but it ends here. Terrorism is no longer tolerated. I think the Pakistani leadership realizes that and will be good boys for awhile.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Pranav Jaidka
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Joined: Sep 14, 2000
Posts: 264
Originally posted by Anuj Anand:
Well this question is for all Americans:
Do u think India is going to be a superpower soon and that whether USA should side with India or Pakistan in case they have to make a choice...
Also do Americans sympathize with the Kashmir cause and realize that pakistan funds terorists which kills thousands in India

Anuj ..No offense meant buddy but I cant understand why indians are so worried about opinions from others. If we have faith in your actions and are honest to ourselves...we dont need to worry about what others think.
Raghav Sam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 412
Originally posted by Cindy Glass:
Bush has said that he is going to poll every country and ask them if they are with us in this fight against terrorism. If they are not with us, then they are against us.
I expect both Pakistan and India to line up with us. That will suddenly make them allies. Of course each may have to give up any personal terrorist involvements that they previously may have been involved in. Should solve lots of problems.

I find both arguments a bit naive. Whether India sides with US or not thats a different issue. But the statement "If they are not with us, then they are against us." is pretty absurd. Each country has its own geo-political compulsions. Certainly India is against any form of terrorism and has been fighting all these years.
The second statement "Of course each may have to give up any personal terrorist involvements that they previously may have been involved in..." is also wrong. India does NOT sponsor terrorism and as I have said in my prev para, it is fighting against terrorism...Now only US is seeing the ugly face of terrorism which is precisely what India has been saying all these years.
The changing geo-political scenario means India and the US have much in common. I sincerely hope both of these countries will have a succesful and strong friendship, the first fruit of which will be the total removal of terrorism from the face of our beloved earth.
------------------
Raghav.


Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.<br />- Dr. Seuss
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Raghav,
They are not arguments. They are the facts about what Bush said last night.
On the topic of terrorism, it doesn't matter what the geo-political compulsions each country has, as of today, either they stand with us against terrorism, or we will consider them part of the terrorists. That is what Bush said last night. Absurd or not, that is how world politics is going to be influenced in the immediate future.
Yes, India has been against terrorism for a long time. No one is disputing that. The problem is that you want us to get mad at Pakistan and back India up. But that is not how this war is going to be fought. The US will not target Pakistan or any other country. Only the terrorists and countries that continue from now on to promote or endorse terrorism.
I believe that SUDDENLY Pakistan is going to see the error of their ways, and choose to side with the US against terrorism. I don't think that it is naive. I think that it is survival for Pakistan. And I believe that the US will accept them as (cautious) allies as long as they assist in the fight against terrorism.
If India wants to solve its past problems, the way will be to work SIDE by SIDE with Pakistan in spite of past history. Until Pakistan is determined to be on the side of terrorism, that is what our stance has to be.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
This what Bush said:
"From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."
Note the "From this day forward...". That obviously applies to Pakistan and I am sure they are taking those words very seriously today.
Anuj Anand
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 96
Well i respect each and every person's opinion . I guess the taliban which has terrorists in India and are recallling them for fighting the US and its allies is known in America only now. It has been an evil scourge on India for past so many years . Last year an Indian Airlines plane was hijacked to kandahar in Afghanistan...What i would want to ask is why that statement from Bush "From now on we will deal with terrorism" .Are and have they been insensitive to the Indians and Israelis plight over all these years??
To rephrase the question should Americans be involved more or less from now on to pressurize Pakistan to stop aiding terrorists
This question is again directed to all Americans....
Anuj Anand
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 96
Well i respect each and every person's opinion . I guess the taliban which has terrorists in India and are recallling them for fighting the US and its allies is known in America only now. It has been an evil scourge on India for past so many years . Last year an Indian Airlines plane was hijacked to kandahar in Afghanistan...What i would want to ask is why that statement from Bush "From now on we will deal with terrorism" .Are and have they been insensitive to the Indians and Israelis plight over all these years??
To rephrase the question should Americans be involved more or less from now on to pressurize Pakistan to stop aiding terrorists
This question is again directed to all Americans....
zulfiqar raza
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Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
It is ludicrous to try to single out Pakistan. Pakistan has been at the receiving end of terrorism. India has been responsible for terrorist activities in all its neighbours. Including arming the LTTE in Sri-Lanka, the creation of Bangladesh which was preceded by Indian sponsored terrorist activities and other countless acts of Indian state sponsored terrorism.
If you think this is incorrect I will provide references from 3rd party sources.
regards
Anuj Anand
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Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 96
My friend Pakistan is not being singled out for terrorism .However the entire world has been terrfied by this extreme form of fanatic fundamentalism from a couple of lunatics . Is is not true that within pakistan there is roar of protests against America and some Pakistanis advocate fighting America in the name of Jehad ...
Bartholemu Smith
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Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
Is it possible for a country not to be with the US and not sponsor terrorism? I agree we need to get rid of terrorism but really this isnt as black and white as it seems.
parul patidar
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Joined: Sep 07, 2001
Posts: 53
Originally posted by Raghav Sam:

The changing geo-political scenario means India and the US have much in common. I sincerely hope both of these countries will have a succesful and strong friendship, the first fruit of which will be the total removal of terrorism from the face of our beloved earth.

u say pakistan is sponsering terrorism zulfikar says india is sponsering terrorism an americans dont care, they just see what is best for them. so india should not try to find a friend in us and do what is best for her without caring how usa or russia or others react
parul patidar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 07, 2001
Posts: 53
pakistan has put a condition that us should keep india away from attack on afganistan if it want pak support now pak is supporting.
it seems that us doent need indian support
so india should keep itself away from this matter without caring whether USA consider india with it or against it
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Anuj Anand:
To answer your questions:
1) No I don't think India will be a super power soon.
2) Why would USA have to make a choice on who to side with? Are you going to give us an ultimatum?
3) Most American have never even heard of the Kashmir cause let alone sympathize with it (unless yuo are referring to sweaters).
4) Yes I think most are becoming aware that Pakistan funds terrorists. Our collation includes: Pakistan, Syria, and Palestine. All we need to do now is include bin Laden and we should have all the terrorists on our side in the war against terrorism!
Sahir Shibley
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Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
It seems Bush's words have been taken too literally. Do you think that the US government is going to consider Mexico an enemy or attack Mexico if it says "I dont give a damn about your fight with terrorism, it your problem you deal with it". It was just rhetoric when he said we are going to poll every country in the world etc etc. He was referring to countries like Libya , Iraq , Pakistan , Iran , Afghanistan etc which has been known to sponsor terrorists.
Most of you, including many Indians seem to have misunderstood India's involvement in this affair. India had been targeted by these terrorists in the past, so India has a vested interest and would like to see terrorism rooted out from the region. This has nothing to do with Pakistan and just for the record India does not have hostile intentions towards Pakistan. I do not understand why some americans seem to think we need their help to deal with Pakistan. This reminds me of the people who came up with the clever idea that Bin Laden and the Sikhs are beard brothers

Regarding Kashmir. What Ken Bates thinks does not really matter. The US representative to the UN knows that they aren't talking about sweaters when the Kashmir issue is being discussed . They have educated people to deal with such things Ken, I wouldnt bother too much about these things if I were you

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 23, 2001).]
zulfiqar raza
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Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
Originally posted by Ken Bates:

terrorists. Our collation includes: Pakistan, Syria, and Palestine. All we need to do now is include bin Laden and we should have all the terrorists on our side in the war against terrorism!

Ken: And I assume it includes having terrorist India on your side also.

from = http://www.fas.org
Federation of American Scientists
"Throughout the Afghan War RAW (Indian Intelligence Agency) was responsible for the planning and execution of terrorist activities in Pakistan to deter Pakistan from support of Afghan liberation movement against India's ally, the Soviet Union. The assistance provided to RAW by the KGB enabled RAW to arrange terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities throughout the Afghan War. The defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan did not end the role of RAW in Pakistan"
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
That makes we wonder, if India was a "terrorist" nation, how come they didn't make to the US Watch list?
PAKISTAN'S LINKS WITH FUNDAMENTALISM AND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM
Close shave with US �terrorist state� tag for Pakistan
Pallone's Resolution on Terrorism: Expressing the Sense of U.S. Congress that Pakistan should be designated as a state sponsor of terrorism.
And here's an excerpt from the US Department of State's Patterns of Global Terrorism - Asia Overview:
Pakistan's military government, headed by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, continued previous Pakistani Government support of the Kashmir insurgency, and Kashmiri militant groups continued to operate in Pakistan, raising funds and recruiting new cadre. Several of these groups were responsible for attacks against civilians in Indian-held Kashmir, and the largest of the groups, the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, claimed responsibility for a suicide car-bomb attack against an Indian garrison in Srinagar in April.
In addition, the Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization, continues to be active in Pakistan without discouragement by the Government of Pakistan. Members of the group were associated with the hijacking in December 1999 of an Air India flight that resulted in the release from an Indian jail of former HUM leader Maulana Masood Azhar. Azhar since has founded his own Kashmiri militant group, Jaish-e-Mohammed, and publicly has threatened the United States.
The United States remains concerned about reports of continued Pakistani support for the Taliban's military operations in Afghanistan. Credible reporting indicates that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel, funding, technical assistance, and military advisers. Pakistan has not prevented large numbers of Pakistani nationals from moving into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban. Islamabad also failed to take effective steps to curb the activities of certain madrassas, or religious schools, that serve as recruiting grounds for terrorism.
So, cut your delusional attitude - face the reality, dude

[This message has been edited by Nanhesru Ningyake (edited September 23, 2001).]


Pourquoi voulez-vous mon nom?
zulfiqar raza
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Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81

U.S. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher has said that for Sikhs, Kashmiri Muslims, and other minorities �India might as well be Nazi Germany.�
Dr. Aulakh Singh, an American citizen from Washinton D.C. writes:
"Indian security forces have murdered over 250,000 Sikhs since 1984, according to figures compiled by the Punjab State Magistracy and human-rights organizations. These figures were published in The Politics of Genocide by Inderjit Singh Jaijee. India has also killed over 200,000 Christians in Nagaland since 1947, over 75,000 Kashmiris since 1988, and tens of thousands of Untouchables as well as indigenous tribal peoples in Manipur, Assam and elsewhere.
The Indian government has also targeted Christians. They have been victims of a campaign of terror that has been going on since Christmas 1998. Churches have been burned, Christian schools and prayer halls have been attacked, nuns have been raped, and priests have been killed. Missionary Graham Staines and his two sons were burned alive while they slept in their jeep by militant Hindu members of the RSS, the parent organization of the ruling BJP. Now his widow is being expelled from India. "
If this is not enough for you, I will provide many more detailed references.
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Sahir Shibley:
You stated "Regarding Kashmir. What Ken Bates thinks does not really matter. The US representative to the UN knows that they aren't talking about sweaters when the Kashmir issue is being discussed"
My feeling is that most people in these forums don't even read other people responses. They at most glance at them and then quickly start typing their own opinions (because we know they are so important). If you look back I was the only one who actualy took the time to respond to Anuj Anand orginal questions. One of his question was "do Americans sympathize with the Kashmir cause?" Most Americans could not even identify India on a map let alone tell you something about Kashmir. Note that Anuj Anand asked about Americans not some select few literati. Please read the questions better in the future.
Ken Bates
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Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To zulfiqar raza:

You stated that "Hindu members of the RSS, the parent organization of the ruling BJP" were killing and causing destruction in India. This is a concern for human rights violations, but is not terrorism. If the government began planning events like this in other countries then yes it would be a terrorist nation. I know in the past that India has commited one of the worst terrorist acts ever commited (which I won't go into here), but I have not seen evidence that the country is commiting or supporting terrorism now. Of course I hardly have all the facts in the matter so I am not a good candidate to make a judgement.
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
>Dr. Aulakh Singh, an American citizen from Washington D.C. writes
If you wish to quote from websites, atleast choose credible sources. This Aulakh Singh fella is supposed to be leading the Sikh struggle for independence from India: translation - he's a supporter of terrorism himself.
I agree, there have been despicable incidents of human rights violations. Instead of just imprisoning the perpetuators, India should use them better by training them as soldiers and deploying them on the Siachen Glacier, where they can let off their steam by wiping out folks trying to sneak into Indian territory. This can transform their lives; and give them a chance to enjoy some good scenery too

[This message has been edited by Nanhesru Ningyake (edited September 23, 2001).]
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Don't ask him to find credible evidence. Anything he finds anywhere on the web that supports his bias is posted as fact. He hates India and supports the ISLAMIC TERRORISTS.
zulfiqar raza
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 81
Originally posted by Ken Bates:
To zulfiqar raza:

You stated that "Hindu members of the RSS, the parent organization of the ruling BJP" were killing and causing destruction in India. This is a concern for human rights violations, but is not terrorism. If the government began planning events like this in other countries then yes it would be a terrorist nation. I know in the past that India has commited one of the worst terrorist acts ever commited (which I won't go into here), but I have not seen evidence that the country is commiting or supporting terrorism now. Of course I hardly have all the facts in the matter so I am not a good candidate to make a judgement.


Ken Bates, I did not state the above, rather I quoted from YOUR congressional sources and the President of Council of Khalistan, in Washington, D.C. There are other congressional sources also such as representative Towne. In addition if you would like a 3rd opinion ask any Sri-Lankan national about the conflict on their Island nation. How the LTTE was armed, trained, funded and supported by India. Also did you read my other postings, quoted from the Federation of American Scientists (FAS) website. Which mentioned the acts of terrorism in Pakistan taken by India on behalf of its long lost ally the Soviet Union. AND the fact these acts of terrorism have not ever stopped.
Interestingly Nanhesru Ningyake had asked a good question, that if India is supporting terrorism why is not on the terrorist watch list of USA. Let me again quote from the FAS website to try to explain why:
"The Indian embassy's covert activities are reported to include the infitration of US long distance telephone carriers by Indian operatives, with access to all kinds of information, to r blackmail relatives of US residents living in India. In 1996 an Indian diplomat was implicated in a scandal over illegal funding of political candidates in the US. Under US law foreign nationals are prohibited from contributing to federal elections. The US District Court in Baltimore sentenced Lalit H Gadhia, a naturalised US citizen of Indian origin, to three months imprisonment. Gadhia had confessed that he worked as a conduit between the Indian Embassy and various Indian-American organisations for funnelling campaign contributions to influence US lawmakers. Over $46,000 from the Indian Embassy was distributed among 20 Congressional candidates. The source of the cash used by Gadhia was Devendra Singh, a RAW official assigned to the Indian Embassy in Washington. Illicit campaign money received in 1995 went to Democratic candidates including Sens. Charles S. Robb (D-Va.), Paul S. Sarbanes (D -Md.) and Reps. Benjamin L. Cardin (D-Md.) and Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.). "
Unfortunately money and influence sells on the capitol hill. And if you buy enough influence from the American senators, you can practically do anything. So despite the fact that India has supported terrorism in its neighbouring states, inspite of the fact taht nuns are raped and missionaries may be burned alive, no one really takes notice. Something that other nations such as Israelis understood long ago and created AIPAC (American Israeli Political Action Committee) which is ranked number 1 lobby group in the US.
Anjali Lourda
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 6
Originally posted by zulfiqar raza:

[b]U.S. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher has said that for Sikhs, Kashmiri Muslims, and other minorities �India might as well be Nazi Germany.�

Dr. Aulakh Singh, an American citizen from Washinton D.C. writes:
"Indian security forces have murdered over 250,000 Sikhs since 1984, according to figures compiled by the Punjab State Magistracy and human-rights organizations. These figures were published in The Politics of Genocide by Inderjit Singh Jaijee. India has also killed over 200,000 Christians in Nagaland since 1947, over 75,000 Kashmiris since 1988, and tens of thousands of Untouchables as well as indigenous tribal peoples in Manipur, Assam and elsewhere.
The Indian government has also targeted Christians. They have been victims of a campaign of terror that has been going on since Christmas 1998. Churches have been burned, Christian schools and prayer halls have been attacked, nuns have been raped, and priests have been killed. Missionary Graham Staines and his two sons were burned alive while they slept in their jeep by militant Hindu members of the RSS, the parent organization of the ruling BJP. Now his widow is being expelled from India. "
If this is not enough for you, I will provide many more detailed references.
[/B]

Anuj,

1. Firstly, I completely agree with Pranav Jaidka, that we do not need other's
opinions for our country. We know where we stand, and if we keep striving in the
right direction, they (others) would also not be able to ignore the kind of power
we are.

2. Secondly, We dont want need US to side with us. We have been fighting against
the menace of terrorism ALONE for years now and continuing with it, would be
no big deal. I dont believe that starting a war against the country supporting
terrorism can be a solution. Terrorism is not supported or funded for by the
citizens of the country.. it is entirely for political reasons.. So taking the
lives of innocent people in the name of war against terrorism would not make
us, in anyway, different from them (the terrorists)


3. We do not live on the sympathy of America or any other country, for that
matter.


Zulfiqar raza


1. The figures that you have so painstakingly quoted in the excerpts from whatever
sources, do sound very convincing. But, take it from a person belonging to one
of the Indian minority groups (that's me, btw), I doubt I would feel safer in
any other country except India.


With so many different religious groups there are bound to be some tensions
among them at times. These are expected, not Accepted.. but Expected.



But it's people like you are constantly trying to drive the wedge
between them.



India is not a Terrorist state. But, I think .. maybe we should have been..



An eye for an eye.. A tooth for a tooth.. is what I believe in.


If we really got into the kind terrorist attacks that Pakistan has been into,
for how much longer do you think Pakistan would exist?

Anuj Anand
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 96
Hey Ken
The question was that would America side with India or Pakistan if they have a choice to make..Its assuming they have to make a choice and not an ultimatum...
Also you had in mind that India committed a grave terrrorist act...Do you want ot share that
Ken Bates
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To zulfiqar raza:
It doesn't matter who said it, although I give it more creedance if it was said by a Congressman. The fact of the matter is none of the events you described are terrorism. In 1 year the Chinese have executed more of its citzens than all other countries combined did in the last 4 years. Does this make them terrorists? I don't think so. What they did in Tibet could qualify them as terrorists. I don't believe bin Laden was a terrorist when he was defending Afganistan from a Soviet aggressor, however, after defeating the Soviets he put his aim on Iseral and the West. At that point he became a terrorist. He now wants to eliminate all of Western culture because it doesn't fit his ideology. He became worse than the Soviets that he defeated. A true Muslim should detest this man and realize he is only using the relgion to accomplish his goals.
It is obvious you don't like Indians. Why who knows. Probably because that was what you were taught. Or maybe over some miserable piece of land. The fact of the matter is that India is not responsible for terrorism many Muslim countries are. It is long past time for the Muslim community to clean its own house. Most of these people have poltical agendas and could care less about Islam. They evoke the name of Allah just to get stupid people to do their bidding. One of the hardest thing for a person to do is accept that their group be it religion, nationality, ethnicity, etc. is behaving badly.
You seem to be intelligent and motivated. Why not concentrate your efforts on getting politicans to get rid of these men who have hijacked your relgion for their own purposes.
Ken Bates
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 06, 2001
Posts: 31
To Anuj Anand:
"The question was that would America side with India or Pakistan if they have a choice to make.." I assume when you say side you mean in regards to our "war" on terrorism. Given the choice I would side with India any day. Why? Because Pakistan supports terrorism. They are one of the countries that needs to clean up its act. Supporting terrorism is just a bad idea, because it can so easily backfire on you. Now that Gen. Pervez Musharraf has agreed to support the United States he must worry about any the terrorist in his own country. Once unleashed who knows where or why terrorists will strike.
What I think hardly matter though. You asked what America would do. I don't think anyone can answer that. Our negotiations with Pakistan was not a snub of India it was simply due to the fact that they have access to Afganistan.
I do not care to elaborate about the terrorist act to which I refered. The terrorist act I speak of occured before any of us were born. Bringing it up doesn't seem relevant and would only side track very important issue at the moment.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
India is a terrorist state why
250,000 sikhs killed freedom
70,000 kashmiris killed for freedom
isnt that holocaust???
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by Anuj Anand:
Well this question is for all Americans:
Do u think India is going to be a superpower soon and that whether USA should side with India or Pakistan in case they have to make a choice...
Also do Americans sympathize with the Kashmir cause and realize that pakistan funds terorists which kills thousands in India

Surely the question should rests on whether India is a superpower due to its contribution, economically to the rest of the world, or, the sheer number of nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction that it may possess.
If the latter is the case, then Id be very worried.


Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
I had some Java certs, but they're too old now...
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
I am very new to java and am looking for a place to laern and share. I was told this was a good place. But, what does any of these threads have to do with java?
At any rate, no one that is in control of near term events gives a rip what you and I think anyway; be you Suni, Shia, Pakistani, East Indian or American of any stripe. American politics reached critical mass in 1932 and has been completely out of touch with reality since.
So, waht's up with java?
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by <searcher>:

So, waht's up with java?

Its having a spat with C#. Go figure.
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
"al", this thread was dormant for a year and a half. We don't need you reopening it just so you can start an ugly argument. So I'm closing it now. Please remember JavaRanch is supposed to be a friendly place.
"searcher" - this is the Meaningless Drivel part of JavaRanch. Basically all the rest of JavaRanch is about Java; Meaningless Drivel is for miscellaneous discussions. So you probably want to check out our other forums. Enjoy.


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It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
subject: anti-terrorism call