To Pranav and the Others... :)

Pranav:
I am only responding because you addressed me (are you sure you didn't mean Tony Curtis, Ha ha!?)
In my post I only stated that I agree with Andy in that there will never be total peace and agreement among nations and/or cultures in planet Earth. Too many differences. Sad but true.
I go one step further: Unless one side wins once and for all, there will always be war.
And fanatical beliefs in so-called religions are the main cause of discord.
Why?
Because if you and I and others who would not even believe in a "god" would get together and discuss our differences, these differences would be concerned about not beliefs but about empirical facts (land owned, territory to acquire for economic reasons etc.)
For example: "You guys have everything and we have little, can we talk about it?" Or "Can you teach us how to be self-sufficient?... or etc.
But in the present situation, and to make it succinct, when any of the parties declare:
"Because GOD says so...", then we are screwed. No more reason allowed beyond this false argument! If "god" says kill the infidel, then it's the credulous fanatic's duty to kill.
Christianity is not exempt from this neither is Judaism.
On the other hand, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism and these ancient so-called religions (which for me they are not but instead true methodologies to get in contact with the SELF) do not proclaim "kill the infidel".
If only we could collect all the Korans, Old Testaments and New Testaments and rip off the pages that have to do with violence off them and then re-distribute said writings to the masses...
Or if better still, the masses would find out that there is no GOD in the way that THEY think it is.
What INSECURE "god" needs adoration at least 5 times a day? Or every Sunday? Or every Saturday!
How insecure can be a being be that requires so much frequent 'adoration'?
We think that "god" is perfect, all-powerfull and omniscient.
How comes it has to be adored by idiot beings (compared to "him") like us to feel good?
And where do these 'commandments' come from? Does "he" has a "power trip" that relishes in watching sub-beings like us jumping through hoops just to get 'saved' FROM WHAT!?
I'll tell you from what: FROM OURSELVES!

There is no Satan: THERE IS NO NEED TO POSTULATE HER (him?):
We humans are better than well equipped to cause harm in the Planet. We don't need any 'outside help' (a devil). We are VERY good at it.
Witness Osama.
If there is a 'god', she has left Earth to itself (absentee landlord) and now we have to put up with this NEW cancer!!
Oh Well! CLASS DISMISSED!
Signed:
The Occult Government of the World:
In each World Crisis Always giving the best advice to the Planet.

[This message has been edited by Tony Alicea (edited October 05, 2001).]

What INSECURE "god" needs adoration at least 5 times a day? Or every Sunday? Or every Saturday!
How insecure can be a being be that requires so much frequent 'adoration'?

well said Tony , but people who do this(at least 5 times a day) cant think beyond their relegion borders,they are inside there relegion's defined borders and they think everyone should also inside it ,whoever not remove them (talibans are the nearest example of this type of thinking) .

come'on Tony

It is not because GOD needs to be reminded that we are here, it is because WE need to be reminded that God is here. In our weak-willed sort of human-ness it is difficult to keep our inner selves on the right path.
Or perhaps you are just a better person than I am, but I have to say that I screw up on a (much more than) weekly basis. Weekly or daily time to bolster up my inner strength by reflecting on God is to my benefit, not his.

Thanks for replying, Cindy.

But what does "god" do for the betterment of life on the Planet? Why doesn't it show up once and for all in a big cloud on an otherwise clear day and demonstrate its power over Creation in front of us, dwellers of the planet, so that THERE BE NO DOUBT that we are under its control.
Applying the thinking that I learned in Physics at the University, we would have to define the characteristics of a 'god'. Then look to the World to see if any of these characteristics are seen. If not, one can always say "but god works in mysterious ways". But the observation could also be explained as "there is no god".
And I screw up as often as you or anybody else, Cindy

And as such, I try to do better next time. The only entities that I expect understanding from, are living entities in this world right now.
I understand perfectly well that some people need a belief in "something greater" to comfort themselves during bad times.
I read, in 1992, the FAQ for the alt.atheism USENET newsgroup and it said something very interesting in the very first question in the FAQ. I'll try to remember it as best I can:
"Isn't a belief in God useful when we are going through desperate times and doesn't it help to get through these situations?"

The answer was that atheists rather believe in the truth and deal with it accordingly instead of convincing themselves of an imaginary thing that by definition is not real.
You said: "reflecting on God is to my benefit, not his."
Then by all means continue to reflect.
It's that in some holy books including the Bible, it is required that man worships frequently, independently of what man may get out of it.

Originally posted by Tony Alicea:

But what does "god" do for the betterment of life on the Planet? Why doesn't it show up once and for all in a big cloud on an otherwise clear day and demonstrate its power over Creation in front of us, dwellers of the planet, so that THERE BE NO DOUBT that we are under its control.

Because God has given us free will. If God wanted automatons then He could have created mindless drones. He wants us to use the gifts He has given us in a wise way.

Where's the proof? Or even suggestive evidence?
It may come to you as a surprise that I am not an atheist.

Tony,
There is no 'proof', at least not scientific proof. Each of us has to decide on our own. Millions grow up believing in one god or another because that's what they've been taught and they're satisfied with it.
Humans seem to be wired to believe in something. The trouble starts when we think our particular form of belief is the 'one and only true belief'

In the end, does it really matter if a 'god' exists? Isn't the way we live our lives, today, each minute, more important than whether or not we go to some presumed paradise or hell when our human life ends?
We don't know where we came from or where we'll end up when we die. No one does. Personally, I think it's better to deal with what we do know: that we are all human beings. Why not try to be the best we can be as human beings. If a god does exist, well, hey, he can't complain .. he made us

On the other hand, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism and these ancient so-called religions (which for me they are not but instead true methodologies to get in contact with the SELF) .

I am offended that with your ignorance you call my religion(Hindu) just a methodology. If i say
some thing about christanity you guys name me as 'Basher' or 'insane' and probably would have deleted
it by misusing your powers.

Where's the proof? Or even suggestive evidence?

My array of Gods which i keep on a platform are the proof.

.
Actually God manifests himself/herself in many ways and also forms(Hindu belief) like eg., as Human(my array of gods) and also
as animals too(Cow, snakes etc ). The so called miracles are manifestations of god.
There is God( better word wud be god's manifestation) in every element(or preciesly the atom) of nature and we need to realize it. I have realized it and i am a gods manifestation

and i am real
so Tony know about me and through me god.

. If you cannot then take the help of your spirutal leader MTY to know about god

.

Anonymous Hindu:
I don't care what you think of what I said, but what I said was a compliment to your religion

At least your religion does not command the wanton murder of other humans that don't believe like you.
Run with it

I don't care what you think of what I said, but what I said was a compliment to your religion

The point is whether you understand the religion or not before giving such statement/compliment(whatever it is).
The point is you got to understand SELF to understand GOD(Hinduisum conveyed by A Hindu Post). It is not a compliment but reflects ignorance on your part to understand Hindusim from a hindu point of you.
The Point/A Hindu

This seems to be the cruxt of the problem here lately. People taking one word out of a sentence (methodology in this case) and going off on a tangent instead of trying to understand, within the context of the poster's comments, what he really was trying to say.
Language is a complex thing. We are not all going to be able to choose the precise combination of words all the time that will allow us to simultaneously convey our feelings while at the same time not offending anybody. Compound that with the fact that many here are not native English speakers and this is what we get.
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited October 06, 2001).]

Point:
Of course!
I am not a Hindu, Einstein!

So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?
Can you read English?
Maybe that's the cause of your misunderstanding!
[This message has been edited by Tony Alicea (edited October 06, 2001).]

I am not a Hindu.

The point is don't make ignorant statements about my religion. The point is there are people thinking like you too.
eg. Your earlier statements like "If you are not an american you don't understand our problems so don't posts
your views".

Can you read English?

I can write English

.

So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?

The point is do you understand my english(What i post). May be you have a problem and that reflects by your statement above.

So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?

The point is do you understand my english(What i post). May be you have a problem and that reflects by your statement above.
The Point/ A Hindu

(get it Buddy).

quote]I recognize your right to believe in it but I think that if you believe in any kind of "god" (or gods in your polytheistic religion, can I ask?), you're most likely wrong.

So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?

Do you understand my english(Posts).
If you still didn't get it then it is me who posted as A Hindu.
If you understand my english then you will get answers to all the above statements.
The Point/ A Hindu : D).

I lost interest. Bye.

Non-native English does contribute to misunderstanding and misinterpretation, but THIS is kinda too much

Actually, Tony, I couldn't figure out what he was trying to say either

Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Pranav:
I am only responding because you addressed me (are you sure you didn't mean [b]Tony Curtis, Ha ha!?)

On the other hand, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism and these ancient so-called religions (which for me they are not but instead true methodologies to get in contact with the SELF) do not proclaim "kill the infidel".
[/B]

Hi Tony .
Sorry for joining in late .Youve probably left this conversation by this time . Unlike the other posters I take this comment of yours as a compliment to my 'religion'. You probably dont know much about Hinduism and you still manage to extract the best thing it teaches us. Non Violence .Probably many hindus do not realise this themselves. No offense meant to other posters who would disagree with this opinion of mine
However i dont know how you can differentiate between a religion and a methodology.
For me a religion itself is a methodology and vice versa .It teaches you how to live your life and perform your day to day activities in a methodical way .
As far as other posts are concerned personally ...i myslef have been carried away a couple of times....yes differences in opinions do exist and thats why things are the way they are.
I also belive that not one single religion is completely right or wrong .Thats is the exact same reason that we have so many religions.
Also this thing of one side coming out victorious to show the world that it was right .... still does not convice the losing side about it being wrong.
So the solution may take a while to come ...but the route to it should be carefully chosen.

You probably dont know much about Hinduism and you still manage to extract the best thing it teaches us. Non Violence .Probably many hindus do not realise this themselves. No offense meant to other posters who would disagree with this opinion of mine

Pranav, Hindu belief is not Non-Violence and it is Gandhi who preached it. There are many things you can draw from religion. It all depends on your perception.
For example:
In Bagahvad Geeta Krishna(God) brainwashes Arjuna
to wage War and kill people. And God says it is HE who
does everything and Arjuna was just used as a MEDUIM.
I have seen a movie recently in which a person kills people by saying the above things in Geeta.
The point is if you want to preach Violence you can preach it by using Hindusim(religion)too. But luckily no one did it.

Originally posted by The Point:
Pranav, Hindu belief is not Non-Violence and it is Gandhi who preached it. There are many things you can draw from religion. It all depends on your perception.
For example:
In Bagahvad Geeta Krishna(God) brainwashes Arjuna
to wage War and kill people. And God says it is HE who
does everything and Arjuna was just used as a MEDUIM.
I have seen a movie recently in which a person kills people by saying the above things in Geeta.
The point is if you want to preach Violence you can preach it by using Hindusim(religion)too. But luckily no one did it.

the point I think you almost have a point ...but youre missing it. Do you know why Arjuna was asked to fight ?? It was because it was his duty at that time and he was getting doubts.
This is in no way to be taken as spreading violence end encouraging people to kill. Anyway hinduism does not have anything to do with this isolated incident and there are lots of other things to be looked into what happened for this.
And MOVIES .,..........thats the worst thing one should pick out examples from .Cmon.
[This message has been edited by Pranav Jaidka (edited October 08, 2001).]

And MOVIES .,..........thats the worst thing one should pick out examples from .Cmon.

Hey not that bad as pointing a link to a site maintained by some moron.

The Point .
As far as the Gandhian principle of non violence is concerned i am not a very keen supporter of that. It is my opinion that it took us around 20 years more to gain independence because of this principle.
I guess what i am trying to say is that as a hindu i am not interested in using violence to spread my religion because my religion does not teach me to do this.
However as an Indian we have fought wars in the past and that does not mean we are going against our religion by fighting. Thats a different issue altogether.

but youre missing it. Do you know why Arjuna was asked to fight ?? It was because it was his duty at that time and he was getting doubts.

I have not missed the point. You were telling Arjuna's fears and i stated the next thing
i.e., God's brainwash to Arjuna.

I guess what i am trying to say is that as a hindu i am not interested in using violence to spread my religion because my religion does not teach me to do this.

I have already said it.

The point is if you want to preach Violence you can preach it by using Hindusim(religion)too. But luckily no one did it.

Anyway hinduism does not have anything to do with this isolated incident and there are lots of other things to be looked into what happened for this.

I am surprised by this. Why do you draw conclusions.
My point is we are not doing violence but that doesn't mean the religion doesn't have that
trait.
Also, Hinduisim is not into spreading it to non-hindus. That May be bc'z it was the oldest
religion(I think so).
I replied to your post bc'z of your non-violence principle of Gandhi (which you said as Hindusim)
i don't like it much and hey don't draw conclusion that i am into other side Violence. There is
space in between two extreme points.

I think we'll end up in a loop....

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Do you know why Arjuna was asked to fight ?? It was because it was his duty at that time and he was getting doubts.
This is in no way to be taken as spreading violence end encouraging people to kill.

Exactly my point:
This point can be used to explain Islam and why Quran mentions violence. If all books are read in context then only good come out of it.
In reference to the verses in Quran that tell Muslims to fight, there's a pretext to it which no one wants an explanation of. The muslims in Arabia at that time were getting persecuted by polytheistic Arabs