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Hey Map - In Russia . . . . .

Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
I heard from a very reliable source (the radio on the way to work ) that in Russia it is considered a prerequisite that a guy bring a girl flowers on the first date.
But only an odd number of flowers (even numbers are reserved for funerals ).
And you decided to LEAVE such a place . . . . .
[This message has been edited by Cindy Glass (edited October 17, 2001).]


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Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Maybe she was getting no dates. LOL
Stevie Kaligis
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Joined: Feb 04, 2001
Posts: 400
couz' the guy always thought it was his second date when he saw Map
Jane Griscti
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Joined: Aug 30, 2000
Posts: 3141
They mustn't date often, where do you get flowers in Siberia
[This message has been edited by Jane Griscti (edited October 17, 2001).]


Jane Griscti
SCJP, Co-author Mike Meyers' Java 2 Certification Passport
Joe McGuire
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Joined: Mar 19, 2001
Posts: 293
As the spouse of a Russian, I can vouch for that. Odd number flowers only! You must also never give a wristwatch or a clock as a gift (although you can get around that by having the recipient return a token ruble or something in exchange).
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

What significance is attached to a timepiece?


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Joe McGuire
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Joined: Mar 19, 2001
Posts: 293
Well, the explanation I get is because a watch somehow means separation, or "time apart." Ever the pessimists, I'm not sure why it wouldn't mean "time together." But that's the Russian psyche for ya!
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
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Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Prerequisite... It's not a law, but it's pretty traditional... Of course, geeks are exempted from this rule, they date girls at the same time (in in the same place) they work (that's why they love to work overtime so much ). Me and my boyfriend, for example, worked for a few years together before it turned out so badly... So I did not get flowers on my first date - go figure what was the first date...


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Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Justin Pontoriero:
we as humans feel an overwhelming urge to give to those we receive things from.

But don't expect a bunch of bananas from the girl on your first date
Rosie Vogel
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Joined: Jan 31, 2001
Posts: 228
Originally posted by Justin Pontoriero:
Not to mention, flowers are symbolic of the vagina and if you are familiar with the laws of reciprocity, as written about in Robert Chialdini's book "Influence", we as humans feel an overwhelming urge to give to those we receive things from.

My goodness. How DEVIOUS! Isn't Pontoriero an Italian name? Those Latin lovers...you gotta watch out for them!

Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Originally posted by Justin Pontoriero:
I always bring flowers on the first date. For several reasons, number one: It shocks the heck out of most woman, when they realize they are going to go on a date with a gentleman. Number two: They will be reminded of me in the days to come, and playing on that, if all went well I call before I anticipate the flowers having died...sort of as an ice breaker. "How are the flowers? Are they still alive?"
Not to mention, flowers are symbolic of the vagina and if you are familiar with the laws of reciprocity, as written about in Robert Chialdini's book "Influence", we as humans feel an overwhelming urge to give to those we receive things from.

I really don't know anyone that is buying flowers for a girl on the first date anymore. That is so old.
Justin must be one of those individuals/losers that are trying to get "some" anyway they can. Are you a gentleman? You last paragraph says you are not so.
Don't you have anything to offer look/personality wise? I guess not. If you ask me, I feel sorry for you dude.
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Hello ,every guy.I come here firstly and the English lanuage is not well to me.So don't think I have troubled you.
I don't think it is a good idea that one bring flowers to the girl you fall in love with on the first date. Maybe its rather old school. :-)

------------------
Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Justin, just to let you know, there is no shortage of women in my life. I really don't think I need any of your secrets. Last 5 times I went out clubbing, I was approached by a girl. That is when I started counting. Probably the others would approach me but after that point someone was already with me. Some time ago, 4 girls came up to me in one night. How often does that happen to a guy, you tell me? I can probably have a different girl every other week but I think that is simply wrong. You are playing with someone's emotions. I see piles of 19+ year olds that are so vulnerable and I am simply amazed what this world has become. Flowers, nice restaurant and so on...all that is nice but women ultimately care only about three things. Love, affection and attention. Obviously they hope to recieve those from a good looking guy. If you are able to exibit these things naturally and sincerely, they will jump off the bridge for you. Later in life they will look for sense of security so money will play a role.
Anyway, I don't think it is wrong to be nice on a date but it is just stupid to buy anything to anyone who is not yours. Yes, your flowers are sign of attention but it is obviously an act done by you so you get something in return.
Yes, you have your goals and I understand that. I also understand that you think of yourself as a "player".
Another important thing that Justin forgot to mention from his bag of tricks is to flatter. Flatter women constantly and you will be surprised how far it will get you.
Rosie Vogel
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Joined: Jan 31, 2001
Posts: 228
I can't speak for all womankind but I think buying someone flowers is an extremely nice gesture, whether you've been married to her for ten years or it's your first date. A guy may or may not be doing it to get something in return but I don't see how that makes the flowers less nice.
Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Rosie don't get me wrong, it is a very nice gesture but it is so wierd at the same time. I don't know anyone who is doing that any longer. Justin very much knows why he does it and the primary reason is to get something in return and not because he really means it. If flowers from someone like that make you happy then there is nothing I can say. In order for this to work, girl has to be old fashioned too.
Howard Ralston
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Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 105
Whew!!! Thank God that I am married. Now I bring flowers to my wife occasionally, for no reason, and she loves it. She is from Belarus, bordering Russia, and flowers are even more important to the women there than they are here.
Whatever you do, if you are married to or dating a Russian woman, don't give her yellow roses. From what I understand, it means that you are breaking up with her. (Unless you really are breaking up with her)
Howard


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Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Research on cultural practices tells us that gift-giving is an important social function. It's often seen as a social lubricant, as a way to create bonds between families or extended social groups. In some contexts the binding can express a form of acceptance (weddings), affirmation or remembrance (birthdays, Christmas). In courtship things vary quite a bit from culture to culture, at least as far as such practices are examined on the whole. If you're looking for writing of that kind of background, Michele Foucault is a good start.
That said, the definition youse guys have proposed above sounds like a courtship protocol written by Larry, Moe and Curly. "I brung ya some flowers, so what do I get..."? Yuck. I can't imagine too many women who would care for them if that's the message they're supposed to receive.
Flowers to me are a temporal pleasure, an invitation to engage one's senses and enjoy the evening. "I brought these to please you." It's a date! Flowers don't last much beyond the evening itself, so it seems silly to me to think of flowers as a gift of value that should be reciprocated. If what you want is someone's long-term attention, better think about a long-term gift.
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
If you're looking for writing of that kind of background, Michele Foucault is a good start.

You mean Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason ???

Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Leave it to a Russian provocateur to take me seriously. This book, silly:
The Use of Pleasure: The History of Sexuality
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Silly? OK.
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Leave it to a Russian provocateur to take me seriously.

Michael, as OO developers we are suppose to design from context. Your post was in Meaningless Drivel, so...
By the way, was Michele a typo or you spell it in French?
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Justin - even if you stipulate that all gifts stimulate desirable human responses, all desirable human responses do not necessarily derive from gifts. And gifts aren't always material goods from one to another. Sentiments can take physical form without piling on the social weight of gift-giving. I know, I did a term paper on it.
Mags - I am not some high-falutin' developer; I'm a programmer, and durn proud of it. Context for my sort is an optional requirement, so there. Any nesting-crazed XML'er should be able to appreciate the difference.
[This message has been edited by Michael Ernest (edited October 18, 2001).]
Nanhesru Ningyake
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Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
I'd give my date some spicy chocolate. If she's seen the movie Chocolat, she'll know what's on my mind

Pourquoi voulez-vous mon nom?
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by Jake the Snake:
Another important thing that Justin forgot to mention from his bag of tricks is to flatter. Flatter women constantly and you will be surprised how far it will get you.

Jake, I am afraid this strategy works well only in simplest cases. You may ask why then it works for you, and I would speculate that you unconsciously choose simplest cases before applying it (but that's only my hypothesis). More powerful strategy would be to alternate flattery with carefully executed attacks - that's what experts prefer. Just watch.
Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109
Map, I don't flatter women. However, I do compliment them if there is truly something beautiful about them.
I probably shouldn't have used word "constantly" and actually just wanted to mention that flattery itself can do a lot. I am sure that there are all kinds of strategies including/excluding flattery that men can apply.
Johnson Chong
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Joined: Mar 16, 2001
Posts: 210
You know, I like you more than I've ever liked any girl after just two dates.
When you're seventy years old and your life is behind you, do you think you'll be happy you were virtuous and chaste, or do you think you just might regret your missed opportunities?


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