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New Java licensing, very important for all java programmers. ( similar to GPL )

erich brant
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2000
Posts: 246
New Java licensing, very important for all java programmers.
Sizzle (the Sun Industry Standards Source License or SISSL)
is similar to GPL!
http://www.sys-con.com/java/archives/0512/OGara/


http://
erich brant
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2000
Posts: 246
What this new license means is:
1. Someone can create another version ( say a javaranch version
of the jdk and jee ) and make it open source , as long as
it is 100% pure java. ( Completly compatiable with sun's java ).
2. The license is an " Abstract Standard " which means that
there may not be any source code with the new license but
the license is and serves as a " Standard for Java " . A
Foundation on with say books at oreilly's site can be used
to create a version of java. ( Which is 100% compatiable with
Suns java! )

erich brant
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2000
Posts: 246
I sent an email to Tim Oreilly , and what are his thoughts
are on the new license. url of his comments will be in future post.
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Since this has nothing to do with Java Certification, I'm moving it to Java in General - Intermediate.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
erich brant
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2000
Posts: 246
First off this is about the future of the Java programming
language. This is the most important thing for all java programmers if they care about their future.
Java does have some problems that are holding the language back.
1. Java Does not have templates.
This huge problem has been solved because
templates have been approved for java by sun
and should be included in the next major release
of the jdk.
2. Java is not a standard.

3. Java is not open source. By making java open source
or having a JDK and JEE kit that are open source and
100% compatiable with the "official" Java this would make
java have a de facto "standard" like perl, php, and the linux
kernel.
4. The new license "may" fix the standards problem and the
open source problem.
5. Why does this matter? A large segment of the linux
community and the most of the perl an php community and
many in the C/C++ "community do not like java!
Why ?
1. not open source and has no standard.
2. C/C++ programmers think Java is too slow.
( to my knowledge java is 20% to 30% + slower then C/C++ at
this time. )
Anyone have stats?
3. Many in the C/C++ and linux and opengl know that java
is not great to work with C or C++ or opengl. Because of
politics within sun that make native interfacing with other languages not as good as it could be!
4. Perl, C/C++ programmers think Java is slower then perl.
This is 100% false!
Other issues
A. Microsofts new Lang. called C# ( C sharp ):
MS submitted it to the ECMA and "may" standardize it.
B. C# is very, very similar to java ( almost a clone! )

Bob Moranski
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2000
Posts: 177
Java uses true OOP, and all objects are actually Objects. I don't think lacking template is a big issue. But everything else, I absolutely agree with you. Java needs to hold off .Net and its VS applications. Making Java open source and standardized seem to be the way to do it.
C# is just like Java syntactically. But it is not portable and undoubtedly lacks all the API Java has. I hope Sun will be more aggressive and make Java replacing C#. I'd love to see Bill's face the day Java becomes the main language for .Net.
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by erich brant:

2. Java is not a standard.

Java stopped to be standardised the moment Sun allowed others to create their own JDK and JRE versions...

3. Java is not open source. By making java open source
or having a JDK and JEE kit that are open source and
100% compatiable with the "official" Java this would make
java have a de facto "standard" like perl, php, and the linux
kernel.

This scheme would ruin the language's main strong point of WORA (even though far from perfect, it does work quite well).
IMO for many systems (especially OSs and programming languages) open sourcing is a sure way to kill it of (or prevent it from getting anywhere, like linux which is (and has been for some time) a dead end).

5. Why does this matter? A large segment of the linux
community and the most of the perl an php community and
many in the C/C++ "community do not like java!
Why ?

The old NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome which plagues the linux world and will prevent the platform from ever getting out of the niche market.
[B}
4. Perl, C/C++ programmers think Java is slower then perl.
This is 100% false!
{/B]

True. Java can be an order of magnitude faster than Perl. Problem is that you need different hardware to make it really take of, as well as programmers with the knowledge to optimise Java. Perl people traditionally invest huge amounts in CPU power while saving on RAM, for Java you need more RAM even if it means a somewhat slower CPU. Also, Perl programmers will hardly know how to optimise a Java Servlet or JSP properly, resulting in less than optimal code (while their Perl code is optimised).

A. Microsofts new Lang. called C# ( C sharp ):
MS submitted it to the ECMA and "may" standardize it.

Smart move, isn't it? Makes you wonder why Sun withdrew Java from ECMA standardisation... Sun does not want an outside agency having a say about how the language develops, MS is clearly more concerned about the developer community than Sun in that respect.

42
 
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