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Y do u do this 2 ur posts

Jamie Robertson
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Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Something that is getting on my nerves is the over use of short forms. short forms like in my topic subject are used to make shorter words out of words that are already really short? If the words are already really short, why make the reader interpret your post when, at the expense of typing one or two more characters, you can express the complete idea you are trying to get accross without your message ending up in hyroglyphics!
Here is a short list of common "shorter forms"

some posts are getting out of hand with this short hand notation. If you think your post is worth reading by others, then it is worth typing it out.
Jamie
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jamie Robertson ]
Guy Allard
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Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
I agree.
Michael Matola
whippersnapper
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Joined: Mar 25, 2001
Posts: 1752
    
    2
Add to the list "pls" and "plz" for "please," please.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Because of the international nature of JavaRanch, all abbreviations should be avoided.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Because of the international nature of JavaRanch, all abbreviations should be avoided.

I agree with you, but then I look at the names of the posters and 90% of the time it is an international name! And by the sentence structure, you can usually tell that english was not their first language.
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
whats so bad about short forms???
i love them, and i see them as fun !
actually when you get used to them (reading and writing) u just cant do otherwise (in this post i forced myself!! ).
i think short forms are the trend in chattings since the days of bbs's and the dawn of the internet.
it would be a shame to abandon them.
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

This was posted today in another forum. I had to read it three times to understand it, while concentrating on each word to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.
"...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified..."
I feel like I'm playing the game MadGab when I read some posts!
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Originally posted by Roy Ben Ami:
whats so bad about short forms???
i love them, and i see them as fun !
actually when you get used to them (reading and writing) u just cant do otherwise (in this post i forced myself!! ).
i think short forms are the trend in chattings since the days of bbs's and the dawn of the internet.
it would be a shame to abandon them.

I kind of agree with you here. I think short forms like LOL (laugh out loud), LMAO (laugh my ass off), etc. are valid short forms because they abbreviate long words, and they are encountered often. The smilie faces are nice as well to set the mood of a post, and to let the reader know what the intent of the post is (to raz, make fun of,...etc.).
But I do believe that the ranch is trying to maintain an atmosphere of professionalism. This can be seen by the JavaRanch naming policy. A small exerpt from this says "I want to maintain a professional exchange on JavaRanch so that corporate america won't feel embarassed to find employees spending time here." I don't think that the short forms conform to this goal of the ranch.
Why do I feel like a crusty, 80 year old grouch telling some teenagers hanging out at the corner of the street "When I was your age, we never had no short forms... We used the full word..."
Jamie
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
I agree with Jamie.
We have two sorts of short forms, the one that abbreviate long sequence of words (LOL, ...) and the one that abbreviate short words .
So what's the advantage of making a short word shorter ??? None, just making the reader waste his time. English is a language as well as all other languages. Respect it. Personally, I get so when reading such posts that I simply don't answer to them. My native language is not English as well and I don't remember having written one short form of a short word in any of my 1757 posts.
Roy,
Javaranch is not a chat, it's a professional web site. There are enough chats out there where you can use the short-short-short terms. No hard feelings!
It's matter of taste anyway, but since what we are discussing here (Java) is a highly technical field that needs a correct terminology, we should at least respect that and not waste people's time by writing some non-sense, dingy abbreviated posts.
my $0.02...


SCJP 5, SCJD, SCBCD, SCWCD, SCDJWS, IBM XML
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Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
no need to patronize me Valentin.
i KNOW this is not a chat room, and i like very much this forum.
however, i dont think that using short forms EVEN for short words like why and you ( y and u ) make this site less professional.
i , for one, love using these short forms and i got used to them. i find them easy to read and no less confusing than other stuff like LOL.
actually LOL can cause people who are unfamilar with the internet to scratch their heads and feel unwelcomed. but u and y anybody can understand with no problem.
one more thing, u and y and all those others are accepted all over the net and i have to say are the "default" behaviour of most if not all inter net users.
i myself, (as u can probably see), am not a native english speaker, but i dont think using this short forms offend the language.
its just a quicker (yes even for 2 more letters) and better way in my opinion to communicate over the web.
u dont have to agree, but if it disturbs the bartenders here that much than make it a rule like u did the naming and we will have to comply with it.
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Roy,
I don't wanna patronize you. You are free to write the way you want. I won't try to convince you to change your habits. I was just expressing my opinions. That's all.
I just feel that we have no rights to whack a language like that, otherwise we may as well get back to prehistoric times where "people" used to communicate by means of grunts .
No hard feelings.
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Valentin Crettaz ]
Michael Matola
whippersnapper
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2001
Posts: 1752
    
    2
Originally posted by Roy Ben Ami:
however, i dont think that using short forms EVEN for short words like why and you ( y and u ) make this site less professional.

Would you write that way in a memo to your boss or management?
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Would you write that way in a memo to your boss or management?

I'm wondering what Roy will answer Hey Roy no hard feelings again, I just find this very funny and I need to laugh a bit just before the week-end.
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Valentin Crettaz ]
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Originally posted by Roy Ben Ami:
..however, i dont think that using short forms EVEN for short words like why and you ( y and u ) make this site less professional.
I guess we'll agree to disagree here!
i , for one, love using these short forms and i got used to them. i find them easy to read and no less confusing than other stuff like LOL.
I think there is a big difference here. One short form is used frequently to comprise a sentence, in which you have to interpret the meaning of the sentence based on the abstract short words. The other (LOL) is an abbreviation of a lengthy phrase that is used sparingly at the end of a paragraph/discussion. If the sentence read "IMAO, when I'm AFK, I may BRB if my CCF aren't broken by my DW for having a MOATYO acting like I'm NOTE ROFFNPR..."(abbr lookup) I would probably be just as annoyed.

actually LOL can cause people who are unfamilar with the internet to scratch their heads and feel unwelcomed. but u and y anybody can understand with no problem.
I agree, but compare the frequency of each short form. Someone is more apt to leave this forum for not understanding how to read the posts rather than not understanding a term in a post that they come accross once or twice a year.
one more thing, u and y and all those others are accepted all over the net and i have to say are the "default" behaviour of most if not all inter net users.
Full length words/sentences are the language/behaviour of most professionals.
i myself, (as u can probably see), am not a native english speaker, but i dont think using this short forms offend the language.
no, but it may prohibit someone who is not proficient in the english language from understanding the valuable information posted in these forums(meaningless drivel excluded!
its just a quicker (yes even for 2 more letters) and better way in my opinion to communicate over the web.
It may be a faster way to type, but it is definitely not a better way to communicate. If it was, why aren't java "white paper" articles using this notation?
u dont have to agree, but if it disturbs the bartenders here that much than make it a rule like u did the naming and we will have to comply with it.
In meaningless drivel, I don't care. I'm just hanging out wasting time, talking about unimportant stuff like this! But I think the other forums should maintain a level of professionalism that is above this slang english.
and IMHO (abbr lookup) I can see the benefit of this when you are instant messaging one liners with someone, but I don't see the benefits of it here.
i cudn't elimin8 al theze short 4ms evn if i wur the trailbos!
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

he he! I hate it when someone takes my posts, breaks it into pieces and tries to analyze my thoughts when they post is just a general statement to be taken as a whole!
I think I have too many pet peeves. And why is it that it is the little, insignificant things that bug me the most?? At work, the database is riddled with unormalized data, terrible business procedures, and non-reusable code, and but none of them annoy me like these short forms??
I'll make a shrink appointment on Monday.
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
Personally, I hate the short forms except for the standard 'LOL' type ones. I have given up reading and trying to answer posts that I couldn't understand. There are enough people here for whom english is not their first language that they should be given every chance to understand what is going on and how to read someones message. Mutilating the english language is not the way to do it.
As for the theory that those abbreviations dont make this any less of a professional site, Michael had the best answer for that - would you send a note or letter o your boss like that, or better yet how about your resume (CV)? A large part of the battle of being a programmer is being able to effectively communicate with others - if they can't read what your saying how the heck are you supposed to communicate.
Using things like u and y are just plain lazy!! If you dont feel like taking the time to ask a question in a way that most of the people here can read then I probably won't feel like taking the time to answer you!!
Dave
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
no, i wouldnt use short forms writing to my boss but i wouldnt use these words either:

I don't wanna (Valentin)


i cudn't (Jamie)

etc....
the point is im not writing here to my boss nor i am writing a resume!
i would write this way to my co-workers or professional freinds which is exactly what i am doing here. maybe i should try to use Mr and Mrs and to all who it may concern letters as well...
as for your statements Dave Nick, they are totally ridiculous.

Using things like u and y are just plain lazy!! If you dont feel like taking the time to ask a question in a way that most of the people here can read then I probably won't feel like taking the time to answer you!!

if it is THAT HARD for u to undersatnd u and y
then u dont need to answer my questions or look at my replies. it has nothing to do with laziness but just for the sake of argument ill admit im lazy! so what?!? it offends u that much?
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
A very recent in post in one of the forums:

i read ur posts,i shall now share my views and feelings,our software team had 13 programmers,out of which 4 were ibm certified and others were sun certified,i do agree that it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified,ibm certification plays the role here.

That hurts to just look at, never mind trying to figure out what he is saying.
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Roy,
"wanna" IS in every respectable American English dictionary while "y", "u", "coz" and the other bad guys are not
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
read my post.
i didnt say wanna wasnt respectable.
i said i would use it (and i guess u either) writing to our bosses.
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
Grammer Police
the only thing i would change in the above post is the use of the v instead of we.
sounds german to me, and also doesnt sound the same.
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Roy:
for the record, just so people don't think I utilize this nonsense in my posts, you quoted me as using the word
cudn't
In the context of the original message you forgot the html tags. It should have been quoted
<EXTREME SARCASM>...cudn't...</EXTREME SARCASM>

Jamie
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jamie Robertson ]
Jake the Snake
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Joined: Aug 02, 2001
Posts: 109


"...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified..."


KEWL LOL
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jake the Snake ]
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Just to complete this discussion.
Ravish Kumar provided a good link which speaks for itself: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language
We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy thinkers (often enough to bet on, anyway). Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere.
So expressing your question clearly and well is important. If you can't be bothered to do that, we can't be bothered to pay attention. Spend the extra effort to polish your language. It doesn't have to be stiff or formal — in fact, hacker culture values informal, slangy and humorous language used with precision. But it has to be precise; there has to be some indication that you're thinking and paying attention.
Spell correctly. Don't confuse "its" with "it's" or "loose" with "lose". Don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS, this is read as shouting and considered rude. If you write like a semi-literate boob, you will probably be ignored. Writing like a l33t script kiddie hax0r is the absolute kiss of death and guarantees you will receive nothing but stony silence (or, at best, a heaping helping of scorn and sarcasm) in return.
If you are asking questions in a forum that does not use your native language, you will get a limited amount of slack for spelling and grammar errors — but no extra slack at all for sloppy thinking. Also, unless you know what your respondent's languages are, write in English. Busy hackers tend to simply flush questions in languages they don't understand, and English is the working language of the net. By writing in English you minimize your chances that your question will be discarded unread.

Tons of tips which all confirm what the majority said in this thread...
Ashik Uzzaman
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Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Posts: 2370

I did not consider the topic so much important or seroius so far....


Ashik Uzzaman
Senior Member of Technical Staff, Salesforce.com, San Francisco, CA, USA.
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
actually Valentin , i read all the link and nowhere does it say there not to use short forms.
as i understood it it even encourages it:

It doesn't have to be stiff or formal � in fact, hacker culture values informal, slangy and humorous language used with

anyway, as a side note, that link also cultivates the use of linux instead of windows so i really wouldnt pay much attention to it anyway.
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Roy,
using short-forms or "writing like a semi-literate boob" sounds like the same to me
But this is only my personal interpretation of it.
As much as you disagree with me, I disagree with your last statement:
that link also cultivates the use of linux instead of windows so i really wouldnt pay much attention to it anyway.

What makes Windows better than Linux? Well don't answer that because it's not the topic of this thread and I don't want to be the one who hijacks this thread, right Angela?
No hard feelings Roy, as I've said in many other threads I love debates, I think they are one of the most efficient way of making the human race evolve.
[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Valentin Crettaz ]
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
I like the discussion ... coz once 5-6 months back when I found thing terrible to read shorts .. I said myself, now i won't use shorts..
But I think most of u find me using shorts like TIA(Thanks in advance), CMIW(Correct Me If Wrong) or some thing ...
actually man is itself basically lazy ... when he was suppose to write things on page by PEN, then he made things shorter so that he has to move his hand less EXA(I am not writing EXAMPLE, accpeted if i write with pen on paper, even if it is official): I'm for I am; won't for would not, don't for do not... etc for etcetra.
I laugh for myself when people on net write don't, they have to type 5 keys and just by typing 5/6(included a BIG space bar) keys they can type full word. But NO as we become so much habbitual of seeing such shorts, we don't mind, but ya V mind typing u for you.
But don't worry ..... this is transient time ... our children won't find any thing wrong with U,V and R as V don't find any thing wrong with that don't(personally I'll prefer to wrire don't while writing by pen and while typing I will prefer do not as I am not saving anything.)
LOL is accepted .... reason, every one can give reason for its support, 'U' is not accpeted, again every one can give reason.
Why I type shorts .. coz I want to save my key storkes... and that is the reason I laugh when I see don't, as it is not worth for keyboard .. when u r writing it on paper with pen then I will perfer don't over do not.
and the link I provided even he has suggested some shorts like STFW, STFM .... but the main point of that link was that .. whatever you do to post ur question, first u should try to find it out by ur self, and while posting ur question u should provide that info (I am not writing information) so that other do not waste there time over same thing and respect ur attempt to first find out the answer by itself. It dose not say anything abt professional/offical way of writing.It simply says that first try urself, do not let other catch fish for u
How many times a man (not gentleman ) can type "Correct me if I am wrong " after posting a answer. How many times a man should write "Thanks in Advance" after posting a question.
Agreed with Val , it is not chat forum, but Y chat has these shorts ?? so that they have to type less.
And I am 100% sure 400-500 years before or when ever , when first time some one would have written don't, there would had been a great debate like this one .... but today every one knows that even PROFESSIONAL writing accepts these shorts.
and one for everyone, We accept spelling mostakes, in postings then why not these shorts. And belive me "plz" and "pls" are being used in so called profesional letters/mail also.
for Roy
that link also cultivates the use of linux instead of windows so i really wouldnt pay much attention to it anyway.

Extract the good things.....
like I am not agree with this :
Don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS, this is read as shouting and considered rude.

Oh, really ... I think this is the own hinking of writer ... as I see CAPS words as to give more attention or as important points.
and even after reading, though I am convince with lot of points, but i am not convince with this.
and above all, in the first line of this, I made coz bold, reason ... it is not net culture, when I was in 11th std. I saw one of my friend to write coz instaed of cause(acyually he wrote b'coz for because), I find it great to make my notes while lecture was going on.
and Yes I am lazy and i believe that human is lazy, he invent for lazyness, whatever s/he does is for lazyness, even he works for lazyness(limit of lazyness)
and I'm lazy
CMIW
TIA


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Michael Matola:

Would you write that way in a memo to your boss or management?

Do you think official and personal way of wrirting is same ??
mahadevan raja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 96
hi all,
this quote was posted by me in another thread.

"...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified..."

the discussion is going hot,i like it,hey our aim is to share our feelings ,when u can understand it ,then y to comment on it unnecessarily,
u all know it pretty well that
y-why
u-you
v-we
ur-your,
as per the list given in the first post.
when u can understand it,and when u all know what it implies,there is no use commenting on it unnecessarily.
so plz dont link professionalism with this forum.
this meaningless drivel is something to share non-technically,as someone said,personal posts cant be compared with technical posts.
and still if u consider it to be meaningless,.........
me cant help it.


SPECIALIST-WCSV5.1 Implementation.<br />SYSTEMS EXPERT-WAS4.0 Administration
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Originally posted by Jamie Robertson:
This was posted today in another forum. I had to read it three times to understand it, while concentrating on each word to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.
"...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified..."
I feel like I'm playing the game MadGab when I read some posts!

wth! wow, that message is freaking me out!
Who would write like that?
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
no, i wouldnt use short forms writing to my boss ... i would write this way to my co-workers or professional freinds

Even if they asked you not to? NO, I'm not saying that the majority of the people, in the forums are against writing that way becasue we haven't heard from them all - I would be willing to bet that, if we did take a formal vote, most would object to excessive use of uncommon shorts.

if it is THAT HARD for u to undersatnd u and y
then u dont need to answer my questions or look at my replies. it has nothing to do with laziness but just for the sake of argument ill admit im lazy! so what?!? it offends u that much?

It doesn't offend me at all - I was just saying that I find them hard to read and if there are other posts that I can read more easily then I will read those first and try to answer them. That does not include posts by people who do not speak english very well either - most of the time you can tell who they are and that they are making an effort to make their posts legible and readable - while people that consistently use shorts have obviouosly not taken into consideration that the majority of people do not use them, and because english isn't their first language they find it harder to read them than those of us who speak english as our primary language.
But your right, in thinking about what I just wrote, using shorts all of the time isn't lazy - it's lazy and inconsiderate.
Like someone else said in this forum it doesn't matter this is only meanless drivel - however, the entire goal for the rest of the Ranch is to be a "professional place" where people can come for help and advise, and the bottom line is that if a person is writing in such a way that the majority of the people can not understand them then they are not being very professional.
Dave
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

The main reason not to use the so-called "short forms" is because it takes the reader a longer than normal time to decipher what you are saying, and this is just bad communication skills. You save 1 or 2 keystrokes per word. Big deal. You are typing those words for some reason. You need to get some idea across to someone else and they have to respond to you. If the person reading your post has to decipher it, it takes longer to get your response back (or not at all), and you may not get the correct response back because the reader mis-understood your post.
UML is a good example. It lets programmers communicate ideas about the design of their programs with one another. There have been certain rules put together on what certain symbols mean in UML, so that anyone that knows UML can tell what a certain symbol means. So, if I'm lazy and I don't want to draw a whole class symbol, all filled out with the names of my attributes and methods, I'll just replace it with a []. There. I saved lots of time, because I know that [] really means "my class". The only problem with this is that if another programmer looks at my UML, he won't know that [] stands for "my class". So you can tell him, and tell anyone else that gets confused by seeing your diagram. But, by short-circuiting the standards of UML, every time someone else sees a [] they'll have to think in their minds... "Ohh... hmmm... what's this '[]'.... oh yeah.... it's that class that so and so made... now... what methods does it have?" An extra deciphering step is required to make sense of this.

And it's the same way with language. Language has certain rules built into it and to communicate you have to follow those rules. If this wasn't the case, I could answer posts like -


with -


Short forms became prevalent on the 'net because early chat programs (like ytalk on some Unix machines) between two people were in real time. You could see what the other person was typing while they were typing it. So quick and short responses made sense because they took less time. They let you get your idea out and to the other person in less time, and they could get right back to you. In a forum like this, that just doesn't make sense. You try to post your message in the most understandable form, so that others can give you the most concise answer. It doesn't matter how fast you type your post and get it out because the communication isn't real time.

And what's with the Linux == "don't listen to them" thing? I'd think that the average Linux user would be a lot more intelligent on most computer and Internet-related subjects than an average Windows user. I think it has something to do with actually knowing how your computer works, rather than playing on a tricycle with training wheels.

Just my $0.02 (well, more like a $1.25),

-Nate
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Nathan Pruett ]

-Nate
Write once, run anywhere, because there's nowhere to hide! - /. A.C.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Nathan Pruett:
I could answer posts like -
plz i need 2 no y my jva code dnt cmple - i m getting a
npe (short form for "NullPointerException") n i need ur help.
URGENT!!!

Yes me and I think most of us understand what is written there .
I will ans. the question and yes might be in shorts
"...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified..."

I do not see any problem with this ...
Can someone plz tell me why we write(with pen on paper) I'm instaed of I am ???
and It's acceptable coz we are habbitual of this short form...(any other reason ) and so much used to that we do not think that why it is here and where to use
I wanted to see your age b4 replying, but ur home page does not talk anything abt you .. there are some games
are you 40+ ? (this smily menas kidding, plz(this is PLEASE) do not take it seriously, nothing personal)
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by FEI NG:
Who would write like that?

the person who is just above you
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
thanks ravish for backing me up here i agree with u 100% !
the only thing i would change in the post above , like i said, is the use of v instead of we !
a little too german for me.
everything else , i think that 99% of the internet users have no problem understanding, and even prefer it.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Ya I m(I m not writing I'm) lazy
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
As a bartender for javaranch I will tell you that short forms are not acceptable here. Period. If you want to use short forms there are plenty of other forums out there. If, as you say, 99% of the interent likes short forms then you should have no trouble finding another site. This is an international site and many of the people who come here have limited ability with the English language. It is also a professional site.
And yes I'm 40+. Are you 12-?
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Hi Thomas Paul,
you know why I took this 10 min to answer ... coz I was, after 3-4 months visited javaranch's home page.I was trying to figure out, what is professionalism.
before writing anything I would like to tell u that I respect all bartenders and Moderator.
This is an international site and many of the people who come here have limited ability with the English language.

Yes, I know this. You can find out my dirty & filthy views here abt people who do not know english
It is a professional site ... where smilies are allowed ... (Yes it's good ... even I said in my previous reply that 'plz' & 'pls' has become official words)
but with all due respect as you have a habbit of typing I'm, I have a habbit of typing i m
I will tell you that short forms are not acceptable here

Thanks for the info, again before replying I try to find out where this policy is ? but I could not found. Even I tried to open the register Page... but it said FYI
You are already registered. You are currently logged in.
As a bartender U will not object over people who are fighting over religion, east, west and so on ........ and giving all bullshit links abt religious sites. NO that is OK coz it is a PROFESSIONAL site.
SORRY Thomas I remind u ur duty of bartender. I say sorry to Nathan Pruett(bartender) too.
And NO, I am not 12- ... coz still some time I write I am.
The problem with us is that we do not want to change with time.
sorry to ALL ..
sorry to who do not mind punching keys .. but again I am habbitual to this and I m lazy...
thanks ...
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: ravish kumar ]
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by ravish kumar:
Can someone plz tell me why we write(with pen on paper) I'm instaed of I am ???

Because it is proper English. It is called a contraction.
and It's acceptable coz we are habbitual of this short form...(any other reason ) and so much used to that we do not think that why it is here and where to use

"Coz", or "bz", or "b'z", or "cuz", instead of "because" are not proper English. They are not even common abbreviations. I have never even seen these used until I came to this site.
In order to have effective communication, it is the responsibility of the communicator to remove barriers to communication in order that his message or idea may be accurately received by the listener/reader. Instead you are erecting barriers where there need be none. So instead of readily comprehending the message the communicator is trying to convey, there are all kinds of barriers the reader must go through before the message is understood.
Let's look at this sentence as an example: "...it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified...".
Instead of rapidly assimulating the message, the reader has to spend way too much time deciphering it. In addition, the writer has now prejudiced himself with the reader, another barrier to effective communication. So looking at something like this the reader may first have to contend with these prejudices, such as: "Why would anybody write like this?", "This looks like it was written by a child", "Why would anybody write 'bcoz'?", "Does he mean 'we' instead of 'v'? Who ever heard of that?". These are prejudices the communicator probably didn't want to force upon the reader, and they are prejudices the reader cannot help but immediately place upon the message before he even has a chance to decipher it.

These short forms were more acceptable back in the early days of chat due to the technological constraints that were placed on such communications. Now, they are just archaic and serve no purpose other than to confuse.
The other thing is, if English is not your native language, and you have several people for whom English is their native language telling you that this means of communicating in English is not proper, why wouldn't you just accept it? Or to look at it another way, if you were part of a community, and many other members of the community express a problem with your means of communication, why wouldn't you want to change it?
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
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subject: Y do u do this 2 ur posts