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Looking for Partner to Write Java Certification Books

John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Hi:
I am interested in writting a book on Java certification, based on my experience on passing certification exam. But I prefer to work with other people(s). If interested, please contact me at:
don_liu_2001@yahoo.com
Thanks for your attention!
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Is there any question?
William Barnes
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Joined: Mar 16, 2001
Posts: 986

I don't know, ... whats the answer?


Please ignore post, I have no idea what I am talking about.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
I have not completely known how this book will look like yet. But there is something I never saw from any book I read before.
Barry Gaunt
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Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
What certification are you thinking about? The market is perhaps saturated as far as SCJP is concerned IMO. SCJD has potential. SCWCD and SCEA are so so.


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John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
What certification are you thinking about? The market is perhaps saturated as far as SCJP is concerned IMO. SCJD has potential. SCWCD and SCEA are so so.

Good point. There are many SCJP books out there, but all of them are very thick. Maybe the best bet will be to write a thin book, with Java knowledge combined with real exam experience. I think this book should be priced at $15.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
And add a chapter -- job hunting with SCJP, perhaps not all the people knows how to utilize the cert.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
I also like to throw in:
certification roadmap;
interview with certification;
.....
Barry Gaunt
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Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
Are you expecting your readers to "know" Java already, or are you going to cater for complete newbees?
Barry Gaunt
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Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
An interesting book would be:
"SCJP to SCJD - How to Bridge the Gap".
Many new inexperienced programmers would want a book like that covering I/O, NIO, Sockets/RMI, Swing, Project Management for Singles, et c.
Even "Project Management for Singles - how to get from SCJP to your SCJD without getting all twisted up" would be interesting.
[ April 19, 2003: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
Are you expecting your readers to "know" Java already, or are you going to cater for complete newbees?

I think it is for those who know Java already. However, to get certified is almost a different ball game. On the other hand, those future SCJPs are hardly 'complete newbees'.
It takes some time from when you begin to know Java to when you plan to take SCJP. I consider that sufficient in term of pre-requisite for this book.
Barry Gaunt
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Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
Originally posted by Don Liu:

I think it is for those who know Java already. However, to get certified is almost a different ball game. On the other hand, those future SCJPs are hardly 'complete newbees'.
It takes some time from when you begin to know Java to when you plan to take SCJP. I consider that sufficient in term of pre-requisite for this book.

That is the intention of SCJP certainly, but there are quite a few people who have their minds on certification as the way to Java enlightenment/jobs. By that, I mean they're only prepared to do the minimum to get the SCJP.
[ April 19, 2003: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2579

Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:

That is the intention of SCJP certainly, but there are quite a few people who have their minds on certification as the way to Java enlightenment/jobs. By that, I mean they're only prepared to do the minimum to get the SCJP.
[ April 19, 2003: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]

Very true!!!
And this lack of knowledge gets reflected in the job interviews, and unnecessarily SCJP cert gets a bad name!!!
- Manish
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:

That is the intention of SCJP certainly, but there are quite a few people who have their minds on certification as the way to Java enlightenment/jobs. By that, I mean they're only prepared to do the minimum to get the SCJP.
[ April 19, 2003: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]

There is nothing wrong with that. Most people only get minimum auto insurance.
An exam cram-like book will certainly be very helpful for me when I passed my exam. That is where this plan came from.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
An interesting book would be:
"SCJP to SCJD - How to Bridge the Gap".
Many new inexperienced programmers would want a book like that covering I/O, NIO, Sockets/RMI, Swing, Project Management for Singles, et c.
Even "Project Management for Singles - how to get from SCJP to your SCJD without getting all twisted up" would be interesting.
[ April 19, 2003: Message edited by: Barry Gaunt ]

These are excellent ideas. I hope my next step will be to write a book like these. Nevertheless, these books are harder to write, I suppose.
It may be the right time to write a book on SCJD, since the new version is just released.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
What certification are you thinking about? The market is perhaps saturated as far as SCJP is concerned IMO. SCJD has potential. SCWCD and SCEA are so so.

I have an idea regarding SCJD books, take the example of flight reservation project, breaking it down to many small projects, each small project may just consist a function or method, giving code and explaination, so readers know what is involved, what is not. When they move on to the new project, they will know what is known, what need to be looked for. First of all, this method should work effectively for beginner.
Some reference will also be included. I expect the whole book less than 200 pages, price around $20.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
And my favorite chapter -- Job Hunting with SCJD.
Is it necessary? is it any different from SCJP? Yes, of course. Reader may not own both books. And SCJD is not SCJP.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:

Very true!!!
And this lack of knowledge gets reflected in the job interviews, and unnecessarily SCJP cert gets a bad name!!!
- Manish

I guess SCJP alone is never a good name! (not because SCJP is bad)
Jane Somerfield
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Joined: Jul 20, 2002
Posts: 193
What about XML certification book? Is there
one on market now?
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
I passed IBM XML exam in March 2002. I do not know any XML certification book out there. XML is so hot right now, sometimes I wonder whether a failed exam report will still mean something to employer. I definitely love to work on a XML certification book.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
One disadvantage about XML certification book is: XML is too new, and keep changing, so some reader prefer exam simulator software, which more gets to the point. One remedy is have lots of mock exam in the book, make the book more question-oriented.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
An interesting book would be:
"SCJP to SCJD - How to Bridge the Gap".

And the list goes on:
SCJP to SCWCD
SCJP to SCEA
...........
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Can anyone tell me how the price of the book is decided? Thanks!
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
I got too many questions! What is the procedure from writing a book to publish it? Thanks!
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Depends on the publisher. Who is your publisher?
They typically expect an outline and a synopsis etc and a bunch of information relating to what and who is your target audience, commitment dates etc.
Get an idea solidified and outlined. Pick a publisher to start with, go to their website(s) and fill out the required forms for consideration.


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John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Thanks for the information!
[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: Don Liu ]
Jessica Sant
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Joined: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 4313

check out the Bunkhouse -- you'll find most every techy publisher listed there -- and just like Cindy said -- go to any of the publisher's websites and you're likely to find an "authors" or "publish with us" section. There it will explain what you need to do for them to look at you.
I was able to find such a section for most all the publishers I know... O'Reilly, Prentice Hall, Manning, APress, Wiley...


- Jess
Blog:KnitClimbJava | Twitter: jsant | Ravelry: wingedsheep
John Lee
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Thanks! I will give it a try.
John Lee
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Posts: 2545
Still, looking for partner..
John Lee
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Posts: 2545
The food taste delicious.
Barry Gaunt
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Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
"Java Certification Cookbook"??
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt:
"Java Certification Cookbook"??

Peter den Haan
author
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Joined: Apr 20, 2000
Posts: 3252
Originally posted by Don Liu:
There are many SCJP books out there, but all of them are very thick. Maybe the best bet will be to write a thin book [...]
You mean a bit like this book? You may recognise some of the authors. Plenty of real exam experience between 'em. Yours truly did the tech edit. Of course it should be updated for 1.4 now.
I doubt whether you will be able to interest a publisher in a SCJP book. Too much well-established competition. I would agree that, of the Sun certs, SCJD is the only market that isn't saturated (although what's there is good). The problem at the moment is that the IT book market is pretty slow, and even well-established publishers such as Wrox are collapsing.
Do not underestimate how much effort goes into writing and producing a book! There's a huge gap between knowing enough to pass the exam and knowing enough to write a book about it. Good reviewers are a must; the publisher will have their own pool of reviewers but if you can get an established name to volunteer for the job it will help your credibility. For an SCJD book, you would also need to familiarise yourself with the new exam which differs quite a bit from the old one.
Finally, do it for the love of Java and writing. Don't even think of doing it for the money at this stage. You'll make more sweeping the floor at the local hairdresser's. But it's a great experience, it adds real depth to your knowledge, and there's a definite kick in seeing your name on the spines in the bookstore.
- Peter
[ April 24, 2003: Message edited by: Peter den Haan ]
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937

For an SCJD book, you would also need to familiarise yourself with the new exam which differs quite a bit from the old one.

Indeed, -- I see at least 3 different versions of developer assignments discussed in the SCJD Forum.
John Lee
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Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Peter den Haan:
You mean a bit like this book? You may recognise some of the authors. Plenty of real exam experience between 'em. Yours truly did the tech edit. Of course it should be updated for 1.4 now.

Thanks a lot for the excellent advice! I really appreciate it. I did recognize all of your guys. Thanks for the great job. Java learners were waiting for the update for 1.4 now!
Originally posted by Peter den Haan:

I doubt whether you will be able to interest a publisher in a SCJP book. Too much well-established competition. I would agree that, of the Sun certs, SCJD is the only market that isn't saturated (although what's there is good). The problem at the moment is that the IT book market is pretty slow, and even well-established publishers such as Wrox are collapsing.
Do not underestimate how much effort goes into writing and producing a book! There's a huge gap between knowing enough to pass the exam and knowing enough to write a book about it. Good reviewers are a must; the publisher will have their own pool of reviewers but if you can get an established name to volunteer for the job it will help your credibility. For an SCJD book, you would also need to familiarise yourself with the new exam which differs quite a bit from the old one.

I can image how hard it will be to write a book, especially in java certification, now. I also agree that SCJD is the only market that isn't saturated. The SCJD has limited version out there. For various of reasons, I think it is not possible to write a SCJD book just to provide the solutions to the assignments, or something similar.
On the other hand, java developing is a big topic, a very generic SCJD book is perhaps not very different to a Java handbook, or Java bible, which I believe are also saturated.
So a good SCJD book should be somewhere in between. However, there were also different motivation and goals when people take the SCJD, which make the task of writing a good SCJD book for everyone even harder, if not impossible.
So a practical approach will be probably like what I described earlier in this thread, assignment oriented, solution oriented. But choosing right kind of assignment is another important decision: something close, but not identical.
Originally posted by Peter den Haan:

Finally, do it for the love of Java and writing. Don't even think of doing it for the money at this stage. You'll make more sweeping the floor at the local hairdresser's. But it's a great experience, it adds real depth to your knowledge, and there's a definite kick in seeing your name on the spines in the bookstore.
- Peter
[ April 24, 2003: Message edited by: Peter den Haan ]

I fully agree. I think the quality of the book is up to the quality of the authors. I can't help recalling a piece of advice I received many years back, it is regarding buying second-handed cars, I was told to not only check the car, but also pay attention to the owner. Later, I also received similar advice regarding buying a pet..... there are fundamental principles in the universe, the decision of a car, the decision of a book, the decision of a pet, the decision of career...... life is made up of many decisions: one after another. Well, this perhaps drifts away from the topic.
By the end, thanks again for the excellent advice.
See you!
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Peter den Haan:

Finally, do it for the love of Java and writing. Don't even think of doing it for the money at this stage.

True, since when did Micheal Jordan begin to play basketball for money? I am not sure he ever played for money, but certainly not at the age of 14, still a child in his hoops dream, or after retirement, rejoin Chicago Bulls for another 3-peat.
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
How about the idea of an open source book?
 
 
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