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Closing threads

Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Well, mister Paul (or Thomas), it is great that you have the power to close topics, but it would be nice to be warned first that the thread is not welcome.... :roll:
After all, it is Meaningless Drivel...
Where do I find a list of "stated to be unappropriate" topics?
Shura
[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
warning
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Thanks, David, exactly what I was asking for. It would be nice for these guidelines to be available somewhere separate, just like naming rule.
As far as that politics thread, please disregard. Just needed some stress relieve, you know, interviews and stuff....After all, this is MY country too.
Shura
[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
Thomas, you never seem to get away quietly with deletions . I wonder if the name trick still works...
David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
It doesn't . The trick was non-breaking spaces .
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
I also would like to know WHAT EXACTLY in that politics thread looked like a big fight. There was no offensive language, a lot of FACTS and BOOKS were quoted. There were NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, except on my poor soul.
Let me repost an assumption:
when I made my statements above I was trying to put it as a THEORY, using mathematical terms like REASON and LOGICAL EXPLANATION
Why??? :roll:
Shura
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Hi Shura
its better to not discuss politics in the meaningless drivel coz it has differnt meaning for everyone.
I wish that you are getting my point.
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
Shura , for your information there is no such thing as part jew as you claim you are.
you are only jewish if your mother is jewish. it doesnt matter who your father is. if your mother isnt jewish then you arent jewish at all.
about the all jews are greedy - a bit racist dont you think? i dont consider me or any of my freinds greedy.
try to limit your conversations around the intelligent zone.
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Well, Roy, I try to limit my conversation around intelligent zones, and intelligent people. As far as who call who, let me just tell you that my mother is Jewish, and I have some family (although not very close) in Israel, so I have as much right do discuss it as you, if not more.
How about the freakin' fact that all my grandparents' on mothers side were killed by Nazis because they were Jews, is this enough "Jewism" for you, Roy, to be able to discuss problems in the Middle East?
Just to be straight, I never considered myself a Jew, but Russian, which is what the other half of my family is.
I consider political discuttions of this nature over. Have a good weekend, everyone.
Shura
[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
gautham kasinath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 583
u too Shura!!


"In the country of the blind, the one eyed man is the King"
Gautham Kasinath CV at : http://www.geocities.com/gkasinath
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
OK, I started it, I want to finish it.
Can someone please delete this freagin' thread?
Shura
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Well, Map, you are to deside, you are the Wisest. I tend to think that this is a clear case of "reverse racism", you know, like you have to prove your blackness to be able to use the *N* word?
For all it's worth, I was not trying to offend any nation or nationality; I guess we russians are a little more flexible towards this. I don't jump a person who uses "communism" remarks....
Roy, peace.
Shura
[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Sorry Shura, we don't really have exact policies; they change somewhat over time, and depend on who is doing the moderating at a given moment, and how bad the situation gets (or has gotten in the recent past). Certain topics have a sensitive history here in MD (and elsewhere of course). The 9/11 attacks are such a topic, along with Israel vs. its neighbors, and India vs. Pakistan. It seems that any conversation here about these topics eventually degenerates into vicious name-calling, unless we step in to stop it. We used to be a lot more permissive of ongoing conversations, and gradually grew fed up with trying to referee them. For a while the de facto rule became "no politics or religion in MD, period", but some of us thought that was going to far. I'd like people to be able to conduct calm, civilized discussions here, but it requires extra policing on our part. Eventually some threads get cut off when they cross a line. Unfortunately even reasonable people can disagree about exactly where the line was, or should have been. And let me assure you MD discussions are not limited to reasonable people. :roll:
[An aside - although Roy and I have had a couple disagreements lately, that last sentence was not directed at him. Or anyone else who had posted in the thread so far. I'm mostly thinking of various anonymous posters who have popped up in the past, full of vitriol.]
In this particular case, the line seems to be when you started making negative comments that seemed to apply to Jews in general. I would suggest that a comment referring to the Isaeli government might have been better received, rather than a comment about Jews having "greed in their blood". (Note for comparison that Ersin's previous anti-Turkey comments were quickly amended to anti-Turkish-government comments - and they never looked like anti-Turk comments.) And using part-Jewish background to justify yourself doesn't really work. For one thing, even a full member of a given group isn't really in a position to speak for all other members of that group. And it's somewhat less effective when you refer to Jews as "they" when making these comments, rather than "we" - sort of undermines what authority you might have claimed.
In general, I'd say that discussions of politics or religion in MD are probationary at best. You can try to have them, and if most of the participants are calm and careful about what they say, they might conceivably go on for some time. But the unfortunate truth is that no matter how reasonable most of the participants might be, there will probably come a point in most of these conversations where we decide to close it down. The more reasonable and calm people can be in general, the more willing we moderators will be to let these conversations go on, rather than closing them at the first sign of trouble.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:

In general, ... discussions of politics or religion in MD are probationary at best. You can try to have them, and if most of the participants are calm and careful about what they say, they might conceivably go on for some time. But the unfortunate truth is that no matter how reasonable most of the participants might be, there will probably come a point in most of these conversations where we decide to close it down. The more reasonable and calm people can be in general, the more willing we moderators will be to let these conversations go on, rather than closing them at the first sign of trouble.

Jim, thanks. This is a very wise way of handling things. I reposted your quote, because I think you guys might be able to use it as General MD Guidelines.
Shura
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
All 4's on that last post Jim (4444). Look now before it changes.

Posts: 4444 | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
Just to be straight, I never considered myself a Jew, but Russian, which is what the other half of my family is.

Judaism is a religion. Russian is a nationality. no conflict between the two. you could say christian and judaism, or israeli and russian , or even say you dont consider yourself a jew and thats it, but saying it is because you are russian is funny.
also, because your mother is jewish then you are jewish. not a part jewish but jewish like the rest of us. You may consider or call youself whatever you want (part jew , not jew) but fact is unless you convert to other religion you are still a jew.
[Comment deleted.]
[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

This post might be a good example of things I'm going to hover over.
I find this dogmatic categorization of people obnoxious, but not offensive.
The following comment, which I deleted, called into question another poster's heritage. As an Irish/Polish/German and all-around nexus of genetic mayhem myself, I don't buy much into telling anyone else who they are and who they aren't.
Any comment here that smacks of racism or nationalism, in particular comments that convey a racial/religious contempt for others, is offensive. It is a disservice to our intent as a friendly place for Java greenhorns to meet, and I feel it's proper to remove those comments from public view.
Play here in the spirit of having fun with or challenging others. If you must perpetuate through rhetoric the hatred that is costing real lives, in the Middle East or elsewhere, perpetuate it elsewhere.
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Amen


"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
Originally posted by Cindy Glass:
Amen

That was a religious comment Cindy and I am now going to ridicule your religious beliefs and malign your ethnic heritage... This is all done in complete ignorance of either but hey, I dont have to know what I'm talking about do I?
Oh, wait you're a sheriff... maybe I won't....


Dave
Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
So much hate in the world....
Just one more religious post, please, I promise to be good... Map asked this question before
never sought I'd be using Map's name for protection. What can't Map be used for? :roll:
Anyhow, there is Jew as nationality, just like Russian, Chinese, etc. Most times it is determined by heritage. In case of Jews, they look at your mother, some other countries look at father, some pretend to avoid the issue altogether... There is also Judaism as religion.
So there are 4 Sets of people:
1. Non-Jewish, who don't practice Judaism
2. Non-Jewish who practice Judaism
3. Jews who don't practice Judaism
4. Jews who practice Judaism
I use the word "practice" here to avoid double meanings with words like "believe", etc.
As analogy, consider the car that is said to be "made in USA". What if it was designed in Japan, 50% of all parts are made in Japan, other 50% in USA, and car is assembled in USA, would you say it is "made in USA" or Japan? How about if we talk Nissan Altima here, or Ford Probe, of Ford Taurus SHO?
Again, I might be wrong
Shura
----------------------------------------------------------
"It cannot be stated with sufficient emphasis that information is one thing - propaganda quite another.
The purpose of spreading information is to promote the functioning of man's reason.
The purpose of propaganda is to mobilize certain of man's emotions in such a way that they will dominate his reason..."

US Council of Foreign Relations, 1946
[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
nationality is from the word nation. there is no country called jew sorry.
Judaism is ONLY a religion and not a nationality.
never heard such nonsense in my life.
Judasim, christianity, islam are all religions.
israeli, Russian, American are nationalities.
face the facts.
Again, I might be wrong

you most certainly are.
[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Roy Ben Ami ]
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I love a good debate as well as the next person, but damn fellas. Would you two give it a rest? You're both just arguing over semantics now. :roll:
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
and i was just pointing the obvious Ernest.
a jew claiming all jews are greedy is a disturbing fact.
in what way is that offensive?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I'm looking for the dead horse... Has anyone seen it?
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
You dont like it Jason then dont read it. no one is forcing you.
i dont like some of topics as well and i just dont read/participate in them.
why do you feel the need to do that?
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
This is getting silly so I am shutting this down too. Now go and play nice!


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