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Aliens?

Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Why are Americans obsessed over aliens? As a foreigner I dont understand this
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
#1 and 2 human emotions that are tageted by propaganda, inluding advertising: fear and greed. A lot of things are being bought because of fear. Fear of not being cool, fear of being alone, fear of being abducted by aliens, etc. And US economy by far and large is driven by consumer spending.
How do I know what I say? I read a lot about it. Also, my girlfriend is in Advertising....
Shura


Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
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Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Are you talking about "aliens" as in strange and interesting beings descending upon us from outer space? Or are you talking about "aliens" as in strange and interesting beings descending upon us from Asia?
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Are you talking about "aliens" as in strange and interesting beings descending upon us from outer space? Or are you talking about "aliens" as in strange and interesting beings descending upon us from Asia?

you thinking is as much correct as mine
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Iam talking about the obese aliens that America is spawning
Dave Vick
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Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
Oh, I see now. You must be referring to the strange and interesting and overweight "aliens" that the government is creating in the cloning vats they have hidden away at area 51. Right?
[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Dave Vick ]

Dave
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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We aren't spawning them. Sheesh. Haven't you even seen "Men in Black". We are just hosting them. :roll: We are very sociable that way.


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gautham kasinath
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Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 583
hhmmm well thats interesting.. Did you guys know that SETI AU has spotted a planet which is in as much distance from its sun as Earth is from ours?? ( the distance seems to play a part in life sustainance ).
But then though the planets' size is >= jupe.. they say it cant sustain life..
aw thats bad.. but then some of its moons sure can!!
Besides this, they have also spotted orbits of planets in the outerspace that is in a PERFECT circle!!!
You must understand that the chances of a perfect circular orbit is pretty remote.
Regds
Lupo..
I have an equation.. there are suppossedly 10 exp 11 galaxies.. each having 10exp11 stars..
that makes 10exp22 stars in all.. if one can support life in its solar system.. there may be more.. and if ppl from there can come to Earth.. thats bad news.. coz theyve got extremely advanced science and can really squash us like bugs!!!


"In the country of the blind, the one eyed man is the King"
Gautham Kasinath CV at : http://www.geocities.com/gkasinath
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Why would they want to? We are harmless, in a way. Do people go out and exterminate ants? What good would that do? Ants are good for science projects...
Shura
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
We are harmless

Mostly harmless.
Shubhrajit Chatterjee
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Joined: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 356
But can they reach earth? Light travels at 3E8 m/s and you cannot travel faster than light!

Originally posted by gautham kasinath:
hhmmm well thats interesting.. Did you guys know that SETI AU has spotted a planet which is in as much distance from its sun as Earth is from ours?? ( the distance seems to play a part in life sustainance ).
But then though the planets' size is >= jupe.. they say it cant sustain life..
aw thats bad.. but then some of its moons sure can!!
Besides this, they have also spotted orbits of planets in the outerspace that is in a PERFECT circle!!!
You must understand that the chances of a perfect circular orbit is pretty remote.
Regds
Lupo..
I have an equation.. there are suppossedly 10 exp 11 galaxies.. each having 10exp11 stars..
that makes 10exp22 stars in all.. if one can support life in its solar system.. there may be more.. and if ppl from there can come to Earth.. thats bad news.. coz theyve got extremely advanced science and can really squash us like bugs!!!


Shubhrajit
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Originally posted by Shubhrajit Chatterjee:
But can they reach earth? Light travels at 3E8 m/s and you cannot travel faster than light!

The fact that you can't travel faster than light has no prove either way. This theory was "proved" by accelerating electrons in Synchrophasotron, by light! Can you accelerate something to a greater speed than light, by using light? As in "can a boat go faster than a wave if it was only accelerated by waves"?
Shura
Shubhrajit Chatterjee
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Joined: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 356
I am not a physicist ... and have not studied Physics for a long time ... so I can't really argue with you ...
But ... if something tends to travel at the speed of light, its mass tends to infinity... so how will that be explained?
Anything travelling in space will be hit by a lot of cosmic particles and the effect of impact will be proportional to the speed and the space ship would tend to disintigrate.
BTW one of the professors in our college had a paper in which he suggested the possibility of worlds where the speed of light is nc , where n is an integer and c is the speed of light in vacuum as we perceive.

Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:

The fact that you can't travel faster than light has no prove either way. This theory was "proved" by accelerating electrons in Synchrophasotron, by light! Can you accelerate something to a greater speed than light, by using light? As in "can a boat go faster than a wave if it was only accelerated by waves"?
Shura
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Here's an interesting article showing that there is prove that light can actually travel faster than itself!
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/light_speed_000530.html
Here's some insights into the Speed of Light controversy:
http://home.sunrise.ch/schatzer/space-time.html
If this proves to be the case, and light can carry information faster than "speed of light", then the consequences are enormous. For instance, that would mean that the results of an event can happen before event itself....And therefore Aliens could've been here all along, because time is irrelevant...in fact the further away their planet is, the earlier their "information" would arrive.
Shura
[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
R K Singh
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Posts: 5371
AW by the time they will reach earth, earth wont be fit to sustain life
like some said fourth world war will be with stones
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
, because time is irrelevant...


Of course if we had a CLUE what time really was, and how it relates to the whole energy / matter thing it would help.
Might help us figure out that Soul / Heaven thing too.
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Cindy, are you OK? This Soul/Heaven/Time/God thingy seems to bother you a lot. Maybe vacation could help? Or we can ask other sheriffs to close that Thread away for good....
Shura
Corey McGlone
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Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Posts: 3271
"So, this thing that chases you in your dreams - what does it look like?"
"Have you ever seen the movie Alien, with Sigourney Weaver?"
"It looked like a giant insect?"
"No. It looked like Sigourney Weaver."
Probably not perfect, but close.


SCJP Tipline, etc.
gautham kasinath
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Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 583
well, though we all can go on arguing about ETs visiting us... for probably a science field trip ( in thier planet ) to probably a Musuem ( Earth ) we cannot rule out the possibility.. even if the chances are bleak..
and BTW if you feel that travelling @ speed of light, by the time the ETs come we wont be sustaining life.. lets not forget that THEY may have embarked in the journey a long time back... if thats the case then the average life span per ET will be so damn high!!!
hhmm well thats a lots to chances.. lets see if they get proved..
Lupo
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
gautham, if you read my prev. post, you'll see that there might be a good possibility that you can actually travel faster than light, maybe even back in "time"; where "time" is our human linear understanding of sequences of events. In that case aliens leaving their planet on Thursday might arrive on Earth on Tuesday, 2 days before!
Hmm. so now I know why they are green...
Shura
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Well, back to the original topic, it wasn't that long ago when there were widespread animal multilations accompanied by UFOs that were never explained. Plenty of physical evidence. Now its happening in Argentina today :
http://msnbc.com/news/769572.asp
gautham kasinath
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Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 583
ofcourse I read your post Shura.. and I got a hint from the link that scientists have been able to prove the theory only for distance close to a meter.
Not light years.
So what I meant by "prove" is the real time scenario of travelling more than the speed of light past distance in order of light years..
I guess that explains it..
BTW I m lookin at the Real X-files link.. uumm looks good..
Lupo
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
If you have any interest at all in finding me and my cute chums in outer space and pooling our knowledge of life, the universe and everything (which may also include a reliable definition of god, heaven, soul, time and other diversions) I urge you to join and support the seti@home project:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu
gautham kasinath
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Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 583
mate! I wud ve joined the Seti club a long time ago.. and downloaded the screensaver, that actually processes data from the Radio Telescope and sends the result..
but I m security freak.. and I really dont appreciate some kinda data going outta my machine without my knowing it.. and I have no way to find itz the Seti data and not mine that is transferred.. to elsewhere.. coz I dunno itz going to Seti..
Lupo
George Brown
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Joined: Sep 26, 2000
Posts: 919
I have seti@home running on my computer at home, and have no worries about that running and uploading data to/from the seti servers. It is after all only data for analysis. I'm not ignorant of the security implications, but I am happy to give free rein to the seti program and donate CPU cycles to the project - otherwise they would go to waste spinning NOP countless times.
Anyway, I have never had any problem with seti@home, as far as I'm concerned it's a trusted program. Do you know of any security that has been compromised by use of the seti@home program? If not, why do you trust any program that sends data from your computer?
My paranoia does know some bounds, thankfully .
[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: George Brown ]
Shubhrajit Chatterjee
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Joined: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 356
Nice links ... but it says ... that only light can travel faster than light and then it cannot be modulated.

Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Here's an interesting article showing that there is prove that light can actually travel faster than itself!
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/light_speed_000530.html
Here's some insights into the Speed of Light controversy:
http://home.sunrise.ch/schatzer/space-time.html
If this proves to be the case, and light can carry information faster than "speed of light", then the consequences are enormous. For instance, that would mean that the results of an event can happen before event itself....And therefore Aliens could've been here all along, because time is irrelevant...in fact the further away their planet is, the earlier their "information" would arrive.
Shura
[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Well, if they proved that SOMETHING can travel faster than light, then I am guessing there's a whole universe we've been unaware of, and've been proving "impossible". Remember "The Earth is flat"?
Shura
David Weitzman
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
Supposing light does travel faster than light... What use is that? Matter still can't reach the speed of light. But if matter had been going faster than light to begin with, it ought to be able to keep going that speed. But then it wouldn't be able to slow down...
As for the obsession with human-like aliens coming to kill us: there is none. Most of us just find those who claim to have been abducted by aliens so laughable that we hold them up for public humiliation. Aliens are interesting in the same sense as Elfs. Some people learn Elvish and some learn Klingon. Just different versions of the same thing.
As for obsession with finding life somewhere else in the universe: both curiosity and science. We could learn a hell of a lot about the universe if we found another type of partical cluster that knew how to duplicate itself.
[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: David Weitzman ]
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Shura, I think you're a bit to credulous regarding the speed of light thing. Note that they give an analogy to rotating a flashlight quickly and watching the movement of the spot on the wall. The spot may "move" faster than the speed of light, but that's completely useless for transmitting any sort of signal faster than light, much less a physical object.
Another analogy for this case might be a man standing on a moving train car. By starting at the back of the car and moving forward, he can move faster than the train. But he won't be able to reach his destination any faster than the train. He's limited by the position of the front part of the train. Now, I don't like the fact that this analogy does involve a physical object moving faster than its medium of transport, but I think that the part about being bounded by the train itself is still relevant.
An even closer analogy: Imagine I have 1000 small robots, which can move at a maximum speed of 1 meter per second. I number them 0-999 and give them each instructions.
For robot i:
1. At time t = i seconds from start, start moving forward at 1 m/s.
2. At time t = 1100 - i/10, stop for 1 second, and then resume forward at 1 m/s.
Now gather them all together, face them in the same direction, and start everyone at t = 0. For the first 1000 seconds, we will just see all the robots forming a nice long line, traveling forward at 1 m/s. Then for the next 100 seconds, we will see a wave of sorts ripple forward along the line, as each robot stops and restarts. This wave will appear to travel at 11 m/s, as it starts where we are at t = 1000, and ends 1100 m away at t = 100. Yet obviously, nothing physically moved at 11 m/s. Moreover, if at t = 500 I had changed my mind and decided that I didn't want to send the wave, or that I wanted to send two waves instead, there's no way I can change the signal being sent at this point - at least, not for the robots who have already been sent off. (Well, other than radio control, or running out after the robots myself. But I think you know what I mean. ) The signal being sent was already committed 500 seconds ago, and it's been traveling forward at 1 m/s since then. Any new signal will have to start again at the beginning, and also travel forward at 1 m/s.
This is pretty close to the actual case in Chiao's experiment, I think. Instead of programmed robots, we have a packet of waves traveling forward at the speed of light. The packet is a superposition of many different frequencies, aligned with particular phases relative to each other. The net effect of this superposition is to create a pulse traveling from the "rear" of the packet to its "front", as the packet travels forward. It's a pretty cool idea, and an impressive bit of engineering to create the proper mix of frequencies and phase relationships to form such a pulse. But it does not even remotely suggest any possibility for FTL communications, much less FTL travel with actual matter.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Randall Twede
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    2

i read some idea once that there is faster than light. it said it was as hard for them to slow down as it was for us to speed up. kind of like a mirror if you get my drift
btw, how fast am i moving right now as i sit at my keyboard?
am i not on a spinning globe whirling around a ball of fire that is itself moving?
[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Randall Twede ]

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gautham kasinath
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Joined: Dec 01, 2000
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well just came across a news about research on Teleportation.. well ofcourse matter cannot travel faster than light.. for the time being.. but light can.. and so teleportation may come to our rescue here!! what say pardners??
lupo
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
what say pardners??
You mean, besides me, right? Since I just got done arguing that no, light does not go faster than light.
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Jim, was away for a while.... As far as your example with robots, I can't see why you can't "send" information over this "wave". I understand were you are coming from. My argument is that if something (anything) can travel at C+1/10000000 of speed of light, be it light "packets" or robots, the theory of relativity might just go to scraps... Unless you add to it something like "well, almost in any case, except for situations like ....", in which case I am arguing that this is just digging a hole for yourself, and that's not how this world was intended to be build.
Oh, now I am pulling out my last card, the faith argument... :roll:
Shura
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Jim, was away for a while....
No wonder things have been so peaceful.
As far as your example with robots, I can't see why you can't "send" information over this "wave".
You can look at it as sending information, but the information (some at least) was sent starting at time t = 0 (in the form of the programming of the first robot) and this information never traveled faster than 1 m/s. To send any different message in the future, you'll have to start over using the robots who haven't already departed, and your new message will also travel at 1 m/s. The information is really contained in the robots, not in the wave.
I understand were you are coming from. My argument is that if something (anything) can travel at C+1/10000000 of speed of light, be it light "packets" or robots, the theory of relativity might just go to scraps... Unless you add to it something like "well, almost in any case, except for situations like ....", in which case I am arguing that this is just digging a hole for yourself, and that's not how this world was intended to be build.
I'm arguing that no physical object, and no information, is traveling even a tiny fraction above the speed of light in vacuum. Special relativity is fully intact here. The "something" in Chiao's experiment that's apparently traveling FTL, isn't anything really. At least, it's not any "thing" conrete enough to be remotely useful to anyone. Or any thing that was actually addressed by special relativity.
Oh, now I am pulling out my last card, the faith argument...
Well, can't argue with that. Hey, I think it would be great if FTL were possible for physical objects or even information, and I'll concede that there may still be a useful loophole somewhere, waiting to be found. But Chiao's experiment isn't it.
Shura Balaganov
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Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
I'm arguing that no physical object, and no information, is traveling even a tiny fraction above the speed of light in vacuum. Special relativity is fully intact here. The "something" in Chiao's experiment that's apparently traveling FTL, isn't anything really. At least, it's not any "thing" conrete enough to be remotely useful to anyone. Or any thing that was actually addressed by special relativity.

Here's an interesting article by russian scientis Petrov, suggesting new Ether theory of Gravity. This has some issue in the above discussion, because if Ether theory stands, than again, our interpretation of light speed might be suffering due to the non-existence of absolute vacuum. And when Einstein said vacuum he actually meant Ether.
A less scientific reading about Ether. This issue, however, comes closer to metaphysics and Theosophy, than science.

Blavatsky, "Secret Doctrine", 19th century!!!
The refusal to admit in the whole Solar system of any other reasonable and intellectual beings on the human plane, than ourselves, is the greatest conceit of our age. All that science has a right to affirm, is that there are no invisible Intelligences living under the same conditions as we do. It cannot deny point-blank the possibility of there being worlds within worlds, under totally different conditions to those that constitute the nature of our world; nor can it deny that there may be a certain limited communication between some of those worlds and our own.

I am not arguing the lost cause here, just trying to be on the lookout of new theories that are coming out, from both English-speaking and Russian scientific camps.
Shura
[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
FYI : Yesterday (24th) was World UFO Day.
Scotland is one of the frequent UFO sighting regions it seems. In UK + Ireland, 1200 sightings so far, which is about 6.8% of total UFO sightings all over the world!
Meaningless facts, of course!


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Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Well, what ELSE is there to do in Scotland after you have sheared the sheep?
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ashok Manayangath:
FYI : Yesterday (24th) was World UFO Day.
Scotland is one of the frequent UFO sighting regions it seems. In UK + Ireland, 1200 sightings so far, which is about 6.8% of total UFO sightings all over the world!

I wonder if it has anything to do with those giant blancmanges trying to win Wimbeldon?


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Paavam Payyan
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Joined: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 86
And it is logical to assume that most of the UFO sightings in UK must be from those Tennis fans, who queue up for tickets as early as 3 days before the match.
Dozens of Pints, open sky and sleepless nights on the road pavements around Wimbledon stadium - I wont be amused if they mistake starts and street lights for UFOs


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