"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Somehow the country survived until 1954, when the phrase "under God" was first inserted into the Pledge.
So let's dance: should someone who does not believe in any God be required to acknowledge "Him" in the course of pledging allegiance to this nation?
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"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
The declaration of independence says that we are endowed with our rights by God.
No one has been required to say the pledge (with or without "under God") since 1943. No one is forced to pledge their allegiance.Originally posted by Matthew Phillips:
I am very much against forcing people to say any pledge of allegiance (that is what dictatorships do, not free societies).
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
No one has been required to say the pledge (with or without "under God") since 1943. No one is forced to pledge their allegiance.
Matthew Phillips
I can agree with those goals certainly. But by framing it as an oath, which children are encouraged to recite before they fully understand what it means and before they are mature enough to decide whether they fully agree with it, I think we also teach kids that it's OK to mouth words even if you don't really understand or fully agree with them. Not a good precedent, in my opinion.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I do strongly advocate children being encouraged to recite the Pledge for a variety of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. I would also strongly reject any notion that such encouragement is the type of thing that only goes on in dictatorships.
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
As government institutions, this is exazctly the kind of thing schools should be doing. They are not telling kids to be good Christians/Muslims/Jews/Wiccans/atheists/agnostics/etc..., they are telling kids to be good citizens.
Now if an adult does not believe their children should be taught to be good citizens with allegiance to their country (and allegiance does not mean supporting our nation in every action it takes), they don't need to be here, IMHO.
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I don't see how "one nation under God" is respecting an establishment of religion. The intent of that part of the First Amendment was to prevent the country from establishing a state religion. Which religion does "one nation under God" try to establish? Christianity? Judism? Islam? Does saying "one nation under God" promote the establishment of any religion?
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Ok, my brainwashed friend, you've done it. US Constitution, Amendment X:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
"Our (American) way of life is based on the fact that individual is superior to the State. The individual is altimate holder of sovereignity. That the State is the servant of the people." - quote from here by Antony C. Sutton. So how come "should be taught to be good citizens with allegiance to their country"? Isn't it putting the State above any citizen? That, my friend, is, first, unconstitutional, and secon, Hegelian (or Marxist, whatever you prefer) to the bone.
Shura
Matthew Phillips
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Ok, my brainwashed friend, you've done it. US Constitution, Amendment X:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
"Our (American) way of life is based on the fact that individual is superior to the State. The individual is altimate holder of sovereignity. That the State is the servant of the people." - quote from here by Antony C. Sutton. So how come "should be taught to be good citizens with allegiance to their country"? Isn't it putting the State above any citizen? That, my friend, is, first, unconstitutional, and secon, Hegelian (or Marxist, whatever you prefer) to the bone.
Shura
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Christophe Lee:
"God" can mean different things to different people. Since they don't believe in a God, atheists can simply define it as Earth or home or love or whatever they do believe in.
I think the Supreme Court will not uphold the 9th Circuit Court's results based on the various available interpreatations of the word "God".
Rob
SCJP 1.4
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Jon Ellison<br />Java Developer at Large<br /> <br />-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----<br />Version: 3.1<br />GIT d- s: a+ C++ UA P+ L- E-- W+++ N++ o-- K- w+ O- M-- V-- PS--- PE+++ Y<br />PGP t++ 5 X+ R-- tv++ b DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++<br />------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
this concerns me more, because it seems more like an active attempt to guide impressionable youths towards a state-sanctioned religion.
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Which religion?
Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
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