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Smoking the BugleWeed

Rufus BugleWeed
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Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Suppose you're an oil rich despost.
Bumbling superpower around the globe is saber ratling and banging the drum. You've seen first hand the wrath said super power can unleash on your country.
Now it's going to take some time for bumbling superpower to get approval from French Prime Minister, the Soviets, and 535 demagogues. They need to have a full debate in the press and the pulpit.
Most of the power players, when the interviewed by the press get asked the question - In the end do you think there's going to be a war? They mumble a bit and shake their head YES, I'm afraid so.
Back to you being the despot. Do you decide there's no point waiting for Jaques Chirac and Gerhard Schr´┐Żder's approval. You'll not sit on your hands, you will stike first.
Am I hogging the bong, or is having a public debate, and resolutions approved what it takes to get Saddam to throw the first punch?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Have you booked your plane tickets for Canada yet? Of course they are capitalists up there too, so maybe not a good idea. But anywhere is better than here, right?
Younes Essouabni
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Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 479
Do you think that Saddam will dare to throw the first punch?
I really don't think so, he is so weak from the two last wars. And he know that if he attacks US, he will face O.T.A.N. He just got no chance to win any war. Even if he is stupid, and even if he have done big mistakes by the past, every man learn. So what are the odds that he attacks first. Probably (probly??) zero. If the odds are so weak, why US want so much to take Saddam out?


Younes
By constantly trying one ends up succeeding. Thus: the more one fails the more one has a chance to succeed.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Because his people are dying. Because he trains terrorists. Because if he develops a biological bomb he might give it to terrorists.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

As many plausible reasons as there may be for sticking it to Iraq, I think it's fair to propose that we have a sitting President who really has no interest whatsoever in domestic policy.
He's done his cutesy thing, shown us he can speak some Spanish and wipe his lips on a short sleeve shirt with the best of them. What he can't show us is how he wants to guide this country to its own future.
One way to deflect attention from all that ignorance is to talk tough to a country that simply doesn't know when to shut up.
Saddam is an amazing scapegoat for our current administration. But really, the time to kick his ass in sideways was 10 years ago. It was back then, the first President Bush claims, that the decision was made not to topple Saddam precisely because it would de-stabilize the region, giving the U.S. something they really didn't want -- a direct hand in the goings-on of the Middle East.
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
He can't pass anythig or confirm anyone because of the obstructionists senate led by Dachle. They don't want anything that might actually help because they wouldn't get elected then. They haven't even passed standard spending bills.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

That's just politics; it's true for every president. I can think of a recent president who was out there stumping for nationalized health services, allowing homsexuals to serve openly in the military, and putting federal money back into student loans for university education, etc., despite some very vocal opposition and vigorous, even self-destructive back-office maneuvering.
You can't tell me Clinton had an easy time of it. Yet he was hard to deny on many domestic issues despite a Republican-controlled Senate andHouse; he spoke to people who vote and won their support. In other cases his agenda was clearly too ambitious, but you knew what he was trying to win.
We mark the success of presidents by how they contend with opposing political interests; successful presidents find a way to win.
Bush was elected under circumstances that were, at best, controversial. That's a challenging problem to say the least, but it's not a reason to remain silent on domestic policies. Face it, he's saying nothing until he gets something through Congress or gets a softball. What's he spoken up against, criminal corporate excesses? Oooh, bold. Terrorism at home? How oh how will you get people to agree on that? What's next, mean people? Cancer? Oh right, a Where's-Waldo on bin Laden and that nasty Hussein.
[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Originally Posted by Jason Meynard:
Have you booked your plane tickets for Canada yet?

I'll take this as agreement.
But anywhere is better than here, right?

It's not that anywhere is better than here. It's that here has so much room for improvement. It's just so easy to find examples too.
Saturday's Washington Post
The Federal Election Commission disclosed yesterday it has imposed a record-setting $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources.

later in the article
In a separate document, the FEC said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents either are "out of the country and beyond our reach, or corporations that are defunct."

I think if I could pickup say 5 million and I had to pay a record fine of 791 thousand, I do it again. It's a cesspool of corruption and self interest inside the beltway.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Power and money showing up in the same places. Call 60 Minutes.
Mark Fletcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
There are some really good articles on Iraq on John Pilgers site
Cheers,
Mark


Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
I had some Java certs, but they're too old now...
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Mark,
Thanks for the site. It was a very interesting read.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
There are some really good articles on Iraq on John Pilgers site

By "really good articles", Mark means the same old tired European inspired anti-American crap that we get to listen to day-in and day-out.
Mark Fletcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

By "really good articles", Mark means the same old tired European inspired anti-American crap that we get to listen to day-in and day-out.

As opposed to the well informed, researched and objective info you get off Fox News?
You make it sound as if the articles were exclusively critcising the US Government; I think youll find that Pilgers articles also criticise the UK governments actions. Im a British citizen and last I heard we werent a part of the US.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
As opposed to the well informed, researched and objective info you get off Fox News?

Funny, I don't recall ever personally quoting anything from or linking anything to Fox News. I also don't believe that I have ever stated that I watch Fox News. In fact I have stated over and over again that I use a wide variety of news sources, foreign and domestic. I read/watch quite a few European news sources as well (BBC in particular), although I find that the frequency with which I do so seems to correspond inversely to my overall attitude towards Europe.
You make it sound as if the articles were exclusively critcising the US Government; I think youll find that Pilgers articles also criticise the UK governments actions. Im a British citizen and last I heard we werent a part of the US.

I'm not sure how I make it sound like that. I have read his articles. They often mention the UK's actions alongside those of the US. However the clear implication is that, from his point of view at least (and most others if you believe European press), that these UK actions are merely following our lead and that Blair is a mere "poodle" (a commonly used term in the press for him these days). So as such, he is replacing the responsibility for all that is evil at our feet, while criticizing Blair for not taking a stand against our evil and continuing to follow our lead.
Regardless, I am not in the best of positions to decide whether somebody is or isn't "anti-UK". I do have a pretty good perspective to recognize anti-Americanism when I see it though. I don't want to hear any of this BS about it really only being the Bush regime that people have a problem with. Wake up. *If* you are willing to take opinion polls at face value, then you will find that *most* (not all) Americans agree with Bush's foreign policy. That means that when Bush is taking a tough stance on Iraq, and willing to procede unilaterally, most Americans agree with this position and believe it is the right thing to do. When Bush is willing to marginalize the UN and the EU, I believe that a fair percentage of Americans agree and feel the UN and EU should be marginalized. In other words, when the leftist hordes are decrying some particular Bush policy, keep in mind that in general it is reflective of a position that the majority of citizens hold. So your problem isn't just with the government. (Note: as with any nation, the US represents a large and diverse range of opinions, none of which are agreed on by everyone, which is why I am speaking in generalities about the "majority" opinion).
[ September 23, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
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