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I don't like cops

Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
I don't like cops, do you ? In the past few years I got some traffic tickets. I 100% agree that policemen should enforce the traffic rules and violators should be fined in whatever way. The part that made me dislike cops is I found that many of them are mean -- Once a cop felt I didn't give the way to him (there was no light flashing on his car), but he couldn't find any excuse to stop me, so he purposely kept pushing my car very closely, this made me bit nervous and I didn't know it was a cop car at that nite. Since I was pushed so hard, I just made very short stop in front of two stop signs, then he flashed his light and stopped and told me I "didn't fully stop well". That's a mean cop I met. In some other cases, both cops and the judge are mean, they don't really listen to what you explain. You can see how imcompetent those cops are when the sniper shot around the VA/MD counties, that's partially because they don't train themselves well to do what they are supposed to do.
Overall, I don't like cops.
Rufus BugleWeed
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Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Does this feeling extend to sheriffs?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
I don't like cops, do you ?

Some things to consider...
1. How many cops do you know socially?
2. If in your job you dealt with idiots all day, how friendly would you be?
3. If you had a job where your life was on the line everytime you made a traffic stop, and where it was important to always present the image that you are in charge and cannot be taken advantage of (remember nice guys get taken advantage of), how friendly do you think you would seem while performing your job?
You can see how imcompetent those cops are when the sniper shot around the VA/MD counties, that's partially because they don't train themselves well to do what they are supposed to do.

I'm sorry, do you live around the MD/DC/VA area? May I ask where you get your information regarding the training of the police officers in this area? Do you have qualifications or experience upon which you can base such statements?
Overall, I don't like cops.

I'm sure they will put themselves on the line for you regardless of your feelings towards them. In fact, despite your feelings towards people who choose to protect the public, I'm sure you will not hesitate to call on their protection when you need it.
Additionally, if you get a speeding ticket or a ticket for violating some other traffic law, the only person you can blame is yourself. The guy wh ogave you the ticket is only doing his job, you're the one who broke the law.
[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
posted by Rufus --Does this feeling extend to sheriffs?

Don't you feel our sheriffs here are very decent ?
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Jason, I don't know why you claim my job is to deal with idiots everyday ? What are those idiots you refer to ? I am not sure why you insult people in such an igrorant way. BTW, I see lot of idiots everyday and EVERYWHERE but I usually don't personally deal with them ...
If you think take it personally on cops because I got some traffic tickets, you are wrong. My point is many cops abuse their power when they do their jobs, ironically, they are the people who often take personally on their targets. Haven't you seen those bad cops beat black people to express their racial hatred ? Jason, you may disagree, but trust me, many cops are mean. They are not as decent/nice as you imagine.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
Jason, I don't know why you claim my job is to deal with idiots everyday ? What are those idiots you refer to ? I am not sure why you insult people in such an igrorant way.

Sigh... I claimed no such thing, nor did I insult you. I'm afraid the only ignorance here is on your part. I asked:
JM: If in your job you dealt with idiots all day, how friendly would you be?
Let me rephrase for you: "If you had a job where you dealt with idiots all day, how friendly would you seem?" It's a hypothetical question. That's what the word "if" is for in that sentence.
Cops generally see the worst side of people on a daily basis. These people they deal with are often acting like idiots. Therefore, given that they deal with idiots on a constant basis, can you blame them for not appearing overly friendly?
BTW, I see lot of idiots everyday and EVERYWHERE but I usually don't personally deal with them ...

If you worked in public safety, you would be forced to deal with them.
Haven't you seen those bad cops beat black people to express their racial hatred ?

:roll:
Jason, you may disagree, but trust me, many cops are mean. They are not as decent/nice as you imagine.

May I ask if you have ever worked at the scene of an assault, a domestic disturbance, a drug overdose, an attempted murder, or an accident where a drunk driver has sent multiple sets of parents and their children to hospitals? These guys have to do that kind of stuff every day. I'm sure they would appologize if after all that they don't seem so cheery and happy when they have to pull over somebody who runs a stop sign. For all they know you will try to kill them when they come up to give you a ticket. I'm sure that helps their positive demeanor.
They don't really care if you like them or not, but I'm sure they would like your respect and your recognition that what they do is for the good of most citizens.
I think I have a fair idea about what they have to go through and how they generally are as people. You have idiots in every profession, but the vast majority of police officers are very good people.
And I almost forgot... Does your failure to address the question mean your statements as to the competancy of the MD/DC/VA police regarding the sniper case is only based off of television accounts, and not because you live in the area?
[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Jason, I think you are converting my claim of "I don't like cops" into another topic of "Do cops do good things to public ?" and you have tried hard to prove yes.
I have no objection to the fact that most cops do good stuff to the public. My statement of "I don't like cops" is an expression of personal feeling towards them based on my experience of dealing with them. This is just like you can say "I don't like lawyers" but I can prove to you "Lawyers do lot of good things to the public".
Many people do many good things to the public, including cops, lawyers. It has nothing to do with the fact that many cops are mean. Some mean cops may do better job than decent cops. Some people don't like politicians, but I can tell you if you are not mean, you better not try to survive in that political business.
Profession contribution and personal characters/integrity are two different things.
Garann Means
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Joined: Jan 28, 2002
Posts: 214
Isn't it kind of silly to say that most cops are kind, unerringly ethical heroes (it's a tough job, but that excuses nothing), or that most of them are bigoted jerks? You're talking about a job classification that exists all over this country and in most parts of the world (in some form). Cops are people and like other people, some of them are kind of lousy people.
I dealt with quite a few cops when I was younger, and not professionally. I dealt with cops who harassed me when I wasn't doing anything wrong just because of the way I dressed, and I dealt with cops who caught me doing things I shouldn't have been and did what a cop's supposed to do: looked out for their community by giving me a good talking-to, then sending me home, realizing that loitering in a parking lot with a skateboard may be technically illegal, but that there was no benefit to anyone in prosecuting me for it.
The best cops are the ones who are able to judge a situation on a case-by-case basis and adhere to the spirit of the law, which is to keep people, property, and communities safe. The worst are those who use the letter of the law (or worse, the mere fact of their job title) to justify harassment, unecessary violence, and other abuses of their authority. In my experience, there aren't many of either. There are a great number in the middle, who are sometimes real heroes and sometimes total jerks, but are generally just doing their jobs and usually capable of being fair if you're polite and cooperative with them.
Anyway, what Abadula described is harassment, and it's as illegal as not coming to a complete stop. And as I'm sure any cop would tell you, no matter how hard your job or your day is, you don't get to break the law.
g.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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I don't like Mondays.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
It's on right before America's Most Wanted isn't it?
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
I understand what Abadula is saying. It is possible certain personality types are attracted to certain professions in disproportionate numbers. So, there could be more jerks as cops than in other types of jobs. I've certainly encountered a number of cop jerks to suggest this is a possibility.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Posted by Herb-- It is possible certain personality types are attracted to certain professions in disproportionate numbers. So, there could be more jerks as cops than in other types of jobs. I've certainly encountered a number of cop jerks to suggest this is a possibility.

Herb, you made the point ! I can name some other such professions like pro wrestling, etc. Police is supposed to be very decent and honored job, but in reality it attracts a much higher percentage of jerks and mean people than other average professions do. That's all of my point. Actually this phenomenon is not just for USA, it is the same situation in any other country.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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I seem to notice a high percentage of jerks posting in MD.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
posted by Thomas -- I seem to notice a high percentage of jerks posting in MD.

and u enjoying staying and posting in MD too..
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
and u enjoying staying and posting in MD too..
It makes me feel very superior.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
posted by Thomas ---
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It makes me feel very superior.

I guess some cops have the same feeling as you do, thanks for giving a vivid example to help me demonstrate my point ...
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

I think your disappointment might start with the idea that law enforcement people are somehow exalted above others by way of profession. Maybe that exalted status is what magnifies the abuses you refer to.
Police officers are just people. They have a job that often puts them in front of others when those people are at their worst and threatened with the idea of an authority getting into their business.
A good friend of mine, who spent years as a reserve officer, used to tell me he noticed people typically "speaking to his uniform," not to him. I'm sure a cop who takes his job too personally isn't likely to last long. If he does manage to last, he's probably not going to kind of job most people hope for.
Anywhere you find power and authority, you find the potential for abuses. Anywhere we see a uniform in this society, you'll find people whose trigger response is fear and resentment.

In some other cases, both cops and the judge are mean, they don't really listen to what you explain.

It sounds to me like you have more than one experience to draw from. All completely without provocation, I imagine.

You can see how imcompetent those cops are when the sniper shot around the VA/MD counties, that's partially because they don't train themselves well to do what they are supposed to do.

Good Lord. Goodbye Dale Carnegie; hello Donald Imus.


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
In some other cases, both cops and the judge are mean, they don't really listen to what you explain. You can see how imcompetent those cops are when the sniper shot around the VA/MD counties, that's partially because they don't train themselves well to do what they are supposed to do.
Overall, I don't like cops.

So you commit a crime and when they make you pay you get pissed off. Poor baby! And the incompetent cops managed to catch those snipers didn't they?
Overall, I don't like you.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
posted by Thomas - So you commit a crime and when they make you pay you get pissed off. Poor baby! And the incompetent cops managed to catch those snipers didn't they?
Overall, I don't like you.

I didn't commit any crime, the justice was not served.
I think the sniper just felt too boring to keep teasing those incompetent cops, so they would like to 'train' the cops in some unique way by voluntarily tipping in, but cops still couldn't get it. This even pissed off snipers 'cuz they couldn't understand why cops are so stupid to learn. Sniper just can't understand it and can't believe it. So they reminded cops again by telling them the Montgomery county case, thanks God, eventually our "smart" cops caught them.
I will feel much worse if I was told by you "overall, I like you"...
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
I didn't commit any crime, the justice was not served.
Funny, but that's what everyone in the "big house" says.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
I think the sniper just felt too boring to keep teasing those incompetent cops, so they would like to 'train' the cops in some unique way by voluntarily tipping in, but cops still couldn't get it. This even pissed off snipers 'cuz they couldn't understand why cops are so stupid to learn. Sniper just can't understand it and can't believe it. So they reminded cops again by telling them the Montgomery county case, thanks God, eventually our "smart" cops caught them.

Yes the cops here were just so stupid during the sniper case. How they couldn't find one little car with a hole cut in the trunk that enabled the killers to stealthily murder their victims is beyond me. It should have been so simple. I mean, there are only a few million people who live in the area.
Would you care to lend us your keen insight into what the police should have done?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Garann Rose Means:
Anyway, what Abadula described is harassment, and it's as illegal as not coming to a complete stop. And as I'm sure any cop would tell you, no matter how hard your job or your day is, you don't get to break the law.

How is it harassment? It may have been annoying, but that's it. Further, it was not illegal. Maybe the cop could have been given a ticket for following too close at best. Most likely he was trying to get close enough to read his license plate and call it in because something about Abadula's car or his driving caught the cop's attention. So given that for whatever reason the cop might have thought that he was behaving in a suspicious manner, he pulled him over when he rolled through the stop signs, giving him the chance he was looking for to check him out closer. But who knows. Maybe the cop was on a personal vendetta to cause Abadula problems that night, maybe Abadula simply broke some traffic laws and was given a ticket for it.
Based on his description of events, it wasn't the first time it happened. In fact it seems he's already been to court. But I'm sure it wasn't his fault. It was just "the man" keeping him down.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
It makes me feel very superior.

good confession. Decades ago Psychologists have found that so-called "jerk" loves the feeling of being "superior" and demands it badly...
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

Yes the cops here were just so stupid during the sniper case. How they couldn't find one little car with a hole cut in the trunk that enabled the killers to stealthily murder their victims is beyond me. It should have been so simple. I mean, there are only a few million people who live in the area.
Would you care to lend us your keen insight into what the police should have done?

what the police should have done ? Good question, let me think... Hum, here is one --- The Baltimore cops who stopped the sniper and found his license and car tag problem, etc, should have caught the sniper and at least should not let him go so easily. The police have acknowledge this mistake publicly. This is something easy but they didn't do well.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Boys, boys...if I have to pull this website over one more time, I'm turning it around and bringing you all home.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
The Baltimore cops who stopped the sniper and found his license and car tag problem, etc, should have caught the sniper and at least should not let him go so easily. The police have acknowledge this mistake publicly. This is something easy but they didn't do well.

Really? Again your cluelessness is evident. From CNN:
Muhammad was sleeping in the car at the time, and was the only one in the vehicle. The Baltimore police officer, described as a 25-year veteran, questioned Muhammad and grew curious because the man's driver's license was from Washington state and the vehicle tag was from New Jersey. Because there were no arrest warrants out for Muhammad at the time, the officer could only tell him to leave.

The police did run a check on him, and he and the vehicle checked out fine. Obviously (to everyone but yourself apparently) there was nothing else that could be done. Come to think of it, for three years I drove a car in Maryland with New Mexico tags while carrying a Rhode Island driver's license. I was even stopped once for speeding (no ticket btw). Since there was nothing illegal about my license and tag situation (which was analagous to Muhammad's), there's nothing they could have done as far as that goes. I guess they could have given me a ticket for speeding, which would have fine with me since I was speeding, but not much else.
So now what was the "mistake" that they acknowledged publicly? What was the license and car tag "problem"? What should they have done other than run his license and tags like they did? I guess somehow they should have just "known" that this was one of the snipers, right?
Rufus BugleWeed
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Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Would you care to lend us your keen insight into what the police should have done?

There was the fingerprint from Alabama that was in the database and slipped through the cracks.
There was the call to 911 that got mishandled.
The system needs to work on its blocking and tackling.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
There was the fingerprint from Alabama that was in the database and slipped through the cracks.
There was the call to 911 that got mishandled.
The system needs to work on its blocking and tackling.

Which supports his claim of incompetancy on the part of cops involved in the case? I don't think so.
Yes hindsight is all well and good. With hindsight we can easily discern "relevant" facts that would otherwise not seem remotely related. It's easy to piece together facts about the criminals in cases such as this after they have already been identified and caught.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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911 calls are not handled by the police. they are handled by 911 operators who are supposed to call the appropriate department to respond to the call.
Abadula Joshi
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Posts: 126
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:

There was the fingerprint from Alabama that was in the database and slipped through the cracks.
There was the call to 911 that got mishandled.
The system needs to work on its blocking and tackling.


And the FBI (or cops) mistakenly hang up the call from snipers at least twice.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:

The system needs to work on its blocking and tackling.

Now I can't tell if this thread about people who don't like cops when they're in your business or if it's about people who don't like cops when they're not in your business.
Garann Means
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Joined: Jan 28, 2002
Posts: 214
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
How is it harassment? It may have been annoying, but that's it. Further, it was not illegal. Maybe the cop could have been given a ticket for following too close at best. Most likely he was trying to get close enough to read his license plate and call it in because something about Abadula's car or his driving caught the cop's attention.

Jason,
It's harassment as Abadula described it. Maybe the cop would describe it like you did, but the original post says that the cop was tailgating him for at least a couple blocks, and implies that the cop was following him around waiting for him to do something he could pull him over for.
A lot of states have laws like these that try to prevent cops from targeting certain groups by limiting how long a cop has to pull you over - in mine, for instance, if you make more than three turns without the police officer turning on their lights, the police officer can't ticket you. They're pretty ineffectual laws, but they exist to prevent a cop deciding that you look like a lousy driver and stalking you around until you do something to prove him right. Granted, you should obey traffic laws at all times, but in practice, a lot of people will get stressed out and screw up when someone is following them around tailgating them.
If the cop noticed something about the car that made him want to call it in, he should have done it and either pulled Abadula over for stealing it or not pulled him over at all, depending on the outcome of that call. If he noticed something about his driving, he should have pulled him over and made him take a sobriety test, or whatever you're implying. But under most laws "something about his driving" doesn't cover "something about his driving that pretty much guaranteed he was a chronic stop-sign-runner".
If Abadula went to court and could show that he was being followed and tailgated, in many states he wouldn't pay his ticket.
g.
Pakka Desi
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Joined: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 177
I think the police offices here do a terrifc job. The other day I was watching Police videos and one scene went like this: An officer stopped an SUV and the driver started screaming. The officer coolly stood there, listened to the driver's crap and gave him the ticket. Upon looking the amount, the driver got really horrible and tore up the paper and threw it on the officer. The officer was still calm and gave him warning to pick up the papaer or he would give another ticket for trashing
I guess, this was one special case as was probably Abudala's case. But over all, I really admire the way law enforcement works in the country.


I'm just saying...it's right there!
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

Now I can't tell if this thread about people who don't like cops when they're in your business or if it's about people who don't like cops when they're not in your business.

I thought it was about the show on Fox
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Originally posted by Garann Rose Means:


If Abadula went to court and could show that he was being followed and tailgated, in many states he wouldn't pay his ticket.
g.

Oh, man, as long as the judge and cop see each other face to face, you know what's the outcome for me... By law I had a chance to explain and win, but in reality, I better forget it.
Abadula Joshi
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Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
I think the police offices here do a terrifc job. The other day I was watching Police videos and one scene went like this: An officer stopped an SUV and the driver started screaming. The officer coolly stood there, listened to the driver's crap and gave him the ticket. Upon looking the amount, the driver got really horrible and tore up the paper and threw it on the officer. The officer was still calm and gave him warning to pick up the papaer or he would give another ticket for trashing
I guess, this was one special case as was probably Abudala's case. But over all, I really admire the way law enforcement works in the country.


Man, that's cuz it was going to be taped and shown on that "bad boy, bad boy" cop show.
Eric Fletcher
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Joined: Oct 26, 2000
Posts: 188
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I don't like Mondays.

Nice Boomtown Rats reference, Thomas


My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted. - Steven Wright
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Eric Fletcher:

Nice Boomtown Rats reference, Thomas

Bonus points if you know what the song is about without resorting to a search engine.
I now return you to the previously scheduled meaningless drivel.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
Man, that's cuz it was going to be taped and shown on that "bad boy, bad boy" cop show.

I believe I saw the same tape. If it is the same one that I saw, it was from the dashboard camera of the officer's cruiser, not from some film crew. :roll:
It seems to me that most of the people who have problems with judges and police officres have problems with authority in general. Doubtless most of them are born victims and nothing is ever their fault. Rarely are they able to take responsibility for the outcome of their own actions. Maybe many think that the rules don't apply to them? Who knows. But either way, in most cases it's probably more a failure of character on the part of these self-proclaimed victims than it is a problem with the people who enforce the laws.
Abadula, you have been asked several questions in this thread but have remained silent on almost all of them. If you expect some sort of empathy, or at least understanding, maybe you might try answering them?
Eric Fletcher
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Posts: 188
If memory serves, it was something about a shooting at a school somewhere, but other than that I don't know the details.
Do I get partial credit?
 
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater.
 
subject: I don't like cops