May I ask you a personal question and I want candid answer from you --- If you are a US born citizen and your country asks you if you want to go to Iraq for this war next week (assume they think you are qualified or useful). Assuming nobody pushes you at all and it is a totally volunteer and anonymous thing, just like taking an anonymous poll. Will you mark "yes" or "no" on the paper which can't be seen by anybody else except yourself ?
Yes. I have already served in the military. I served after college by choice.
Jason Menard
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Hmmm.... If the US government ever needs a team of crack Java developers inserted deep behind enemy lines, Saddam is in trouble. Regarding Paul's post... How many Ranchers are former military? Off the top of my head Paul Stevens (service?), me (USAF), Dave Vick (USMC if I remember right), and Gregg Bolinger (Navy I believe) come to mind. Anyone else? Just curious.
Actually Jason, I am not military. I had thought about it at one time when I was fresh out of high school, but they wouldn't let me fly because of my eyes. So it was a no go. As far as the initial question: If my country asked me to volenteer: NO If my country said you have to go: YES Reasons? If it is volentary, they don't need me that bad and I have a wife and son to protect at home. I am very grateful for the military for protecting me and my family over seas and at home as well. The military is the primary reason I typically don't complain about federal taxes. If my country said I had to go, I wouldn't think twice. I would gladly protect my country if my country truly needed me. [ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: Gregg Bolinger ]
My mistake Gregg. I was working off memory going back to the days of the old 9/11 threads and I guess I had you confused with somebody else. Andy Ceponis maybe. Ah well. I respect your position on the question though, as well as those who would take a similar stance. That is, not necessarily volunteering to go, but willing to go if called upon. Shura, are you aware that even aliens and dual nationals are usually required to register for selective service?
Jason - I think you're thinking of Greg Harris. You know, the one who knew how to spell his first name correctly. As for me - my own answer and reasoning would be identical to Gregg's, if I were married and had a kid. Since I'm not, I'd be much more likely to volunteer if asked. I suppose it depends on the perceived need (is total manpower an issue? do they need my skills?), and how strongly or personally I was asked. E.g. I've resisted armed forces recruitment commercials so far, which are a form of "asking" - but if they were to ratchet up the urgency ("we need YOU, Jim", I'd probably go for it. Hard to say where the magic line would be. I am very grateful though to those who do or have served. [ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst: Jason - I think you're thinking of Greg Harris. You know, the one who knew how to spell his first name correctly.
Yep you're right, that's who I was thinking of - "Greg" with one "g".
Originally posted by Jason Menard: Hmmm.... If the US government ever needs a team of crack Java developers inserted deep behind enemy lines, Saddam is in trouble. Regarding Paul's post... How many Ranchers are former military? Off the top of my head Paul Stevens (service?), me (USAF), Dave Vick (USMC if I remember right), and Gregg Bolinger (Navy I believe) come to mind. Anyone else? Just curious.
Well I was in the Royal Navy for three years back at the start of the '80s, but I wouldn't want to go back. And they wouldn't want a wrinkly old geezer like me anyway.
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is: I am truly impressed with your patriotism. Of course, the back side of your patriotism means death to some, but do not let this stop you.
Of course it also means life, freedom, and security for millions more, but don't let that color your opinion. To me it's more a question of responsibility than patriotism anyway. How can one in good conscience ask someone to go do something they wouldn't be willing to do themselves if needed?
Originally posted by Jim Yingst: Jason - I think you're thinking of Greg Harris. You know, the one who knew how to spell his first name correctly. [ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
wow, people are actually talking about me! my answer is: YES actually, i was in the United States Navy and deployed to the region twice ('96 and '98). i never actually walked on Iraqi soil, but i did visit Kuwait a couple times and my ship floated a few miles off the coast of Iraq. i would go back on a moments notice.
what?
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Originally posted by Greg Harris: actually, i was in the United States Navy and deployed to the region twice ('96 and '98). i never actually walked on Iraqi soil, but i did visit Kuwait a couple times and my ship floated a few miles off the coast of Iraq.
That's right, I remember now. You were a "raven" if I remember correctly. I never made it down south although they did try to send me to Saudi on more than one occasion (right up until the day I got out ) . I did manage two tours up north (Incirlik, Turkey - early '91 and '92-'93) and a tour in Sarajevo, Bosnia (early '98) though. [ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
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That's right, I remember now. You were a "raven" if I remember correctly.
that is correct. if i remember correctly (and because you said "raven"), i am assuming you were Air Force? i am about to graduate (computer science & mathematics) and i am trying to get back into the field on the civilian side... i am hoping that there aren't many ravens out there with a double major.
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Originally posted by Greg Harris: that is correct. if i remember correctly (and because you said "raven"), i am assuming you were Air Force? i am about to graduate (computer science & mathematics) and i am trying to get back into the field on the civilian side... i am hoping that there aren't many ravens out there with a double major.
Yep, ex-USAF. Best of luck in your final year of school and with your pending job search. Double majoring in Math and CS is just a bit too masochistic for my tastes! Sorry to hijack the thread... I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Cindy Glass wrote: I'll bake cookies for Thomas and Jason .
I'll make the sand castles in the Iraqi desert to entertain Cindy while she bakes cookies for Thomas and Jason. When I served in the Soviet army, I inflicted permanent damage to my gas mask so that it would be easier to breethe while you run with your mask on (my comrades did the same). So much for me as a soldier and the Russian Army in general. As a naturalized US citizen, yes, I raised my hand and swore to kill the Iraqi children if the country asked me to do so. But you've got to have guts to do it effectively. That's why the US army is a voluntary business, and the question that is posed in this discussion is somewhat irrelevant when asked to people who are not on active duty or the reserve. Eugene.
As a naturalized US citizen, yes, I raised my hand and swore to kill the Iraqi children if the country asked me to do so. But you've got to have guts to do it effectively. That's why the US army is a voluntary business, and the question that is posed in this discussion is somewhat irrelevant when asked to people who are not on active duty or the reserve.
I really don't think that all the hardware in the ME is used for killing Iraqi children - usually talking to them in a stern voice works good enough :-) However, I somewhat agree with your second assertion - it takes a certain type to be "killers"/"heros"/etc... but one doesn't really know until he/she is put in that position...
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi: May I ask you a personal question and I want candid answer from you --- If you are a US born citizen and your country asks you if you want to go to Iraq for this war next week (assume they think you are qualified or useful). Assuming nobody pushes you at all and it is a totally volunteer and anonymous thing, just like taking an anonymous poll. Will you mark "yes" or "no" on the paper which can't be seen by anybody else except yourself ?
ah if you are an US citizen between 18-37 you already signed a slective service draft card.. so you really don't exactly have achoice in the matter..
I really don't think that all the hardware in the ME is used for killing Iraqi children - usually talking to them in a stern voice works good enough :-)
Yeah, but sometimes these little bastards start throwing rocks at the tanks and the planes that came to liberate them. In such situations, you have no choice but to execute the little pricks, and if I were a good marine, I would probably enjoy it. But as it happens, I am cut to cut code, not throats. So let the marines do the killing, let the Commander In Chief make decisions, let the politicians do the dancing, and let the rest of us discuss the morality and civic responsibility. Kind of a Model-View-Controller pattern, -- every part does best what it is designed for. Eugene. [ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Eugene Kononov ]
Hmm, lets see... If they asked for volunteers, yes I'd go. Actually thats how I ended up there in 90 and 91. If they told me I had to go, yes again. Actually thats what just happened unfortunatley I ended up here in the horn of africa as opposed to south west asia.
Originally posted by Cindy Glass: I'll bake cookies for Thomas and Jason .
Me too? chocolate chip are always good, or oatmeal raisen.
Corporal US Marine corps - 1988 - 1992 Would I go again? In a heartbeat. I'm actively working on re-enlisting in the Navy or Marines as an officer. This is as a direct result of 9/11.
Thomas Paul
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They wouldn't take me... low blood pressure.
Cindy Glass
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Originally posted by Dave Vick: Me too? chocolate chip are always good, or oatmeal raisen.
Sure!! - You are at the top of the list . Send me an e-mail with an address and I will send a "care package". If all that I can do to contribute is to support those who go, well then that is what I will do.
i'd like to tell you something about islam, the person who fight and in his mind caring of that people will know about his patriotism and then killed in the battle will go to hell. regarding the question i'd ask myself if i'd go to fight is that will be for god? if yes i'll go.
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Originally posted by mohamed hamdy: i'd like to tell you something about islam, ..... if i'd go to fight is that will be for god? if yes i'll go.
I wont say that I know more than you about Islam. But I have question to ask you. Which one is greater, your country or the God.(Call it Allah, Jesus OR Ram OR whom so ever you pray.) ??? For me answer is country, I wont kill you if you say that Ram never existed. But surely I will kill you if you say that I am coming to your country for war. Dont mix war with religion, that is the job of terrorists. I believe in this war US will gain some benefit, which US could avoid right now and can get that benefit by other means also. And thats why I am against THIS war.
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) . I did manage two tours up north (Incirlik, Turkey - early '91 and '92-'93) and a tour in Sarajevo, Bosnia (early '98) though.
