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Wealth Redistribution

Rufus BugleWeed
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Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
So you are an imperial super power (ISP). You have just conquered an oil rich Arab state. There's this old problem just a few miles to the east on the west bank and Gaza. If you keep up with current events this west bank problem is the root of all problems. If not the root of all problems certainly the problem that shows that ISP is an evil empire.
Now if ISP says 5% of oil revenues from Iraq are going to be taxed and spent on health, education and welfare a few miles to the west, everybody will be happy, everybody will respect the ISP and new era kinder gentler relations will follow?
Am I not right? You can call this a stupid idea, I won't mind
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Why should Iraq's oil wealth go to the Palestinians? Isn't that for the Iraqs to decide? After all, the US doesn't own the Iraqi oil.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
There's this old problem just a few miles to the east on the west bank and Gaza.
Time to consult a map I think.
everybody will be happy
I don't even need to understand the details of what you're proposing to know that won't happen.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:

Now if ISP says 5% of oil revenues from Iraq are going to be taxed and spent on health, education and welfare a few miles to the west, everybody will be happy, everybody will respect the ISP and new era kinder gentler relations will follow?
Am I not right? You can call this a stupid idea, I won't mind

Lots of money has already flowed into the area of which you speak. Seems Arafat and his henchmen looted most of it. No guarantee it won't happen again. Besides, its a stupid idea for the reasons other posters have already mentioned.
Martin Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 05, 2003
Posts: 22
Here's an idea that involves the ISP spending no money. Leave the problem to the east alone entirely. I wonder if settlements would still be churned out if Uncle Sam's backing was withdrawn.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Martin Smith:
Here's an idea that involves the ISP spending no money. Leave the problem to the east alone entirely. I wonder if settlements would still be churned out if Uncle Sam's backing was withdrawn.

The first one didn't involve the Super Power spending money either.
Martin Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 05, 2003
Posts: 22
Who's next Syria, Iran or North Korea.
Gentlemen, place your bets.
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Martin Smith:
Who's next Syria, Iran or North Korea.
Gentlemen, place your bets.

In most strategy games its to your advantage to own contiguous countries. What's between Afghanistan and Iraq?
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Time to consult a map I think.


I never realized that Gaza and the west bank were in Iran.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
My bet says Syria. And then Lebanon. That way we get rid of Hezbollah. Syria will be given an opportunity to reform their ways but I don't see it happening.
Richard Hawkes
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Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
Originally posted by Martin Smith:
Who's next Syria, Iran or North Korea.
Gentlemen, place your bets.

I live in S Korea. If N Korea is next I will be extremely pissed.
John Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
$200 on Syria. These bastards need to be shown the might of the American democracy.
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
$200 on Syria. These bastards need to be shown the might of the American democracy.


The only possible way for that to happen is if the bastards keep sending over terrorists and snipers into Iraq and generally stirring up trouble there. Hmmm, on second thought, thats fairly likely to continue...
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:

I live in S Korea. If N Korea is next I will be extremely pissed.

Pissed because millions of people will be liberated from totalitarian rule ? Or pissed because millions of people will no longer be on the verge of starvation after their country is liberated and modernized like South Korea ? (thousands have already starved, more starvation avoided due in part to US grain shipments). Or just pissed because you're a pissy sort of guy?
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Out of curiousity, Herb, is it really so difficult to imagine another possible reason? E.g. pissed because he thinks it will result in a sharp increase in the number of missiles being fired at him? I mean, you might disagree about whether this would happen, or who to blame if it does. But overlooking the possibility entirely seems a bit disingenuous, isn't it?
[ April 14, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
Richard Hawkes
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Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
Pissed because millions of people will be liberated from totalitarian rule ? Or pissed because millions of people will no longer be on the verge of starvation after their country is liberated and modernized like South Korea ? (thousands have already starved, more starvation avoided due in part to US grain shipments). Or just pissed because you're a pissy sort of guy?

Pissed because the consequences of military action against N Korea will be more devastating to the whole region than starvation and totalitarian rule in the North. Pissed because many of the people I know and love, including family, will possibly die. I think military action could destroy S Korea and that is too high a price to pay for a quick fix solution (liberation by force).
However I think military action is unlikely for those very reasons.
And generally I'm not a pissy guy.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
I don't see military action against North Korea because exploding atomic weapons have a habit of leaving a mess behind. I think it is more likely we will leave this mess to China, Japan, and South Korea to work out. After all, the problem was created by China since they didn't let us conquer all of Korea.
Mark Fletcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Richard,
IIRC Seoul is within shelling distance of the NK/SK Border?
Mark


Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
I had some Java certs, but they're too old now...
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
IIRC Seoul is within shelling distance of the NK/SK Border?

So I've been told. Its about a 30 minute drive to the border, traffic permitting. You can go there for picnics and check out the tunnels built by the North to invade Seoul with. Bizarre.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
Ta Ri Ki Sun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 442
Originally posted by Martin Smith:
Who's next Syria, Iran or North Korea.
Gentlemen, place your bets.

theres no way in hell the USA will EVER consider taking on North Korea, they're going to talk alot, and talk some more, and some more.
BTW, I would also fear and tip toe around someone who REALLY posed a threat to me, unless I felt I could dispose of the threat without taking too much damage
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Out of curiousity, Herb, is it really so difficult to imagine another possible reason? E.g. pissed because he thinks it will result in a sharp increase in the number of missiles being fired at him? I mean, you might disagree about whether this would happen, or who to blame if it does. But overlooking the possibility entirely seems a bit disingenuous, isn't it?
[ April 14, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

Maybe we could raid the tip jar to buy Herb a one ticket to the NK/SK DMZ? See how fast he is to wage war then.
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Originally posted by omar khan:

To my understanding the word bastard means: "a person whose parents were not married to each other when he or she was born".
I read the statistics and it seem that most childer in Syria happens to belong to married couples unlike the countries that are supposed to teach democracy to that unfortunate country.
IMHO the condition of being a "bastard" is not bad in itself. The problem is that many people tend to discriminate single-parent or no-parent children. This fact is reflected also in the language where the word "bastard" is also an insult.
I am rather confused. Can anybody enlighten me?

The word has been bastardized.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

The word has been bastardized.

And I was told that profanity is not allowed here..


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Martin Smith:
Who's next Syria, Iran or North Korea.
Gentlemen, place your bets.

Doesnt one read news.
"There isn't a list, and Syria isn't on it,"
What is the word, which is used for such contradictory sentences ...
once there was one thread full of such words.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
From m-w.com:
Bastard:
2 : something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 : an offensive or disagreeable person -- used as a generalized term of abuse
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
From m-w.com:
Bastard:
2 : something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 : an offensive or disagreeable person -- used as a generalized term of abuse

From review.udel.edu:

Besides, profanity is fun. After all, there is nothing like the satisfaction of throwing around words like "grab-ass" and "bastard."
Dont worry this story supports you
But this does not support you
From dictionary.com:
bastard : n 1: (obscene) insulting terms of address [syn: a##hole, cocks##ker, sh*t, mother f****r, motherf####r, pr##k, son of a bi##h, SOB]
AW if you guys feel comfortable, then really I have no problem, cause in my normal life I use lot of profanity.
Ram
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Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 43
I hope India soon build a much accurate ICBM ... to use it as a "defensive shield".
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ram:
I hope India soon build a much accurate ICBM ... to use it as a "defensive shield".

Shield aginst who?
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Shield aginst who?

Oh most probably Pakistan :roll:
Although why you would need an ICBM to hit your next door neighbour, or even other Nuclear Powers like China, Russia, or even *hush* Israel is beyond me. Seems like a bit overkill.
Perhaps India plan to use it stop off at Harrods in London first for some fine wine and cheese before hitting one of its aforementioned targets?
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
North Korea is next. The ghost of Harry Truman is
going to hit them with a barrage of small accurately placed neutron bombs.
Originally posted by TP
Why should Iraq's oil wealth go to the Palestinians? Isn't that for the Iraqs to decide? After all, the US doesn't own the Iraqi oil.

I'm hearing you say the US should not concern itself with Palestinian issue? That the French are going to have a UN bake sale to take care problem? Or that Iraqii citizens are not willing
to share less than Saddam's cut for the poor, pitiful, Palestinian's?
Get a little, give a little...
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
I'm hearing you say the US should not concern itself with Palestinian issue?
That's a complete non sequitor from Thomas's quote. You were talking about appropriating Iraq's oil money for the Palestinians. It's not the US's money to allocate - not if the US is trying to be seen as "liberator" rather than "conqueror" of Iraq. And there's quite a lot of other stuff that Iraq's oil money will be needed for in the near future, stuff that is of more direct concern to the Iraqi people.
That's not to say that we should ignore the Palestinians or Israel. But it's a complex problem. Throwing money at it is of questionable benefit in the first place; taking someone else's money and throwing that instead is definitely not going to make many people "happy".
Ram
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 43
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:

Oh most probably Pakistan :roll:
Although why you would need an ICBM to hit your next door neighbour, or even other Nuclear Powers like China, Russia, or even *hush* Israel is beyond me. Seems like a bit overkill.
Perhaps India plan to use it stop off at Harrods in London first for some fine wine and cheese before hitting one of its aforementioned targets?

Pakistan has enough western "friends" to destroy them, China don't often poke their nose in
other countries politics, Russians no longer teaches other contries on how to govern
themselves,Israel won't do anything to add a new enemy to their long list.
Congrats
You got one right ... guess the rest?
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
That's a complete non sequitor from Thomas's quote.

There's a you in there too, but I don't think it was a personal attack or slightly beligerant.

Bartender! Could you bring me another round?
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Ram:
I hope India soon build a much accurate ICBM ... to use it as a "defensive shield".

Irony and pathetic that a person with an assumed nick name signifying peace would have such a hateful thought. India would be better off demilitarized. There are enough things to spend that money on rather than ICBM's.
And shame on you for being an Indian (the land of Gandhi) to make such a comment.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Commentary From the Sidelines of history
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
I'm hearing you say the US should not concern itself with Palestinian issue?
That sounds serious! Have you thought of having your hearing tested? I heard that brain tumors can cause you to hear things that aren't there so you might want to think about an MRI or Cat scan. How often do you hear me saying these things? Does it happen on a regular basis or just once or twice? If it continues to happen and the CAT scan is negative you may want to think about a psychiatrist since hearing voices is a sign of schizoprenia. Do I ever tell you anything else like "shoot the dog" or "eat dirt"? You have me worried, Rufus. Please seek medical attention!
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

...India would be better off demilitarized....

And then overtaken by .......
You know why do US supports Pakistan? Because it knows what India is.US needs one puppet in south asia region, which neither China nor India could be.
...And shame on you for being an Indian (the land of Gandhi) to make such a comment....

If there was Mr. Gandhi then there were also Bhagat Singh, Chandrashekar Azad, Sukhdev Singh, Udham Singh, Kartar Singh Sarabha,Ramaprasad Bismil, KhudiRam Bose.. to name few.
Do you know who did kill General O'Dwyer, the main culprit of JaliawalaBag case even though he was transfered to Britain.
AW India is not a nation of Gandhi only.
What is wrong in possesing ICBM?
It will give more power to defense yourself.
India is not going to attack on anyone just like that.
And today if India is in much better position to defend himself than any other country, then say thanks to Kalam and ABB, who succesfully did Nuclear test and declared India a nuclear power.
I think, they forget to put this "And shame on you " in fallcies.
AW we are off the discussion, I think.
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
You know why do US supports Pakistan? Because it knows what India is.

Yeah, US knows. Pakistan is cheaper to buy.
Suprising the Indians are going after softwares instead of wines ( and whines ) and cheeses, too. It is interesting that Mumbia has competition for leader of the third world title from old Europe.
[ April 16, 2003: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
I don't think India needs an ICBM. Who would they aim it at? The US? Does India really think the US plans to invade them? Why? India is a pretty good friend to the US. And would India really use nuclear weapons first?
Ram
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 43
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I don't think India needs an ICBM. Who would they aim it at? The US? Does India really think the US plans to invade them? Why? India is a pretty good friend to the US. And would India really use nuclear weapons first?

You are absolutely right, at present US and India are friends. But if you go back to 1971 war("Libration of East Pakistan"), US leased a submarine to Pakistan(largest pakistan had at that time, and was eventually sunk) and also secretly dispatched its navy fleet (you won't find it in any official confirmation on this), when Pakistan was in the brink of defeat. Acquiring Nuclear weapons and delivery system is one of the important defensive system and not a offensive one, in the presend days context.
Couple of decade ago Iraqi (including Saddam) where friends US, now ???
Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

And shame on you for being an Indian (the land of Gandhi) to make such a comment.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Hey did you ever wonder why MK Gandhi didn't want to lead the government???
My answer he felt his way of thinking will not modernise a country. So being true selfless politician he opted out.
[ April 16, 2003: Message edited by: Ram ]
Ram
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 43
Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

And shame on you for being an Indian (the land of Gandhi) to make such a comment.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Hey did you ever wonder why MK Gandhi didn't want to lead the government???
My answer he felt his way of thinking will not modernise a country. So being true selfless politician he opted out.
 
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