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best language for GUI programming

basha khan
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Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
Hi all,
which is the perfect language for making GUI in windows?.with skin look and feel?.what about c#?.what about GUI in someother language and buisiness/network logic in java?.anybody having a good pattern for it?.i need a good pattern for event notification from exe to java using a shared library.anybody have?.
basha
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
'best' means the best combo of power and productivity, so the title easily goes to Visual Basic, but of course, this is MD....
basha khan
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Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
what about ibm SWT/eclipse? who tried it before?.
basha
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
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Don is right. It is very easy to do GUIs in VB (or in C# which uses the exact same VisualStudio.NET features). This is probably the reason that VB is still the number one development language.


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Cindy Glass
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Joined: Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
It is very easy to do GUIs in VB (or in C# which uses the exact same VisualStudio.NET features). This is probably the reason that VB is still the number one development language.

Either that or because VBA comes already included in most of the desktop tools on a Windows machine .
< Cindy reluctantly admits that she has done some development in VB at times, and it was fairly easy - but don't tell Tom >.


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R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Don is right. It is very easy to do GUIs in VB (or in C# which uses the exact same VisualStudio.NET features). This is probably the reason that VB is still the number one development language.

Slightly off the topic ... but is VB still in use ??
I mean 2-tier architecture still in production ?
or I am too much in to Java :roll:
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

Slightly off the topic ... but is VB still in use ??
I mean 2-tier architecture still in production ?
or I am too much in to Java :roll:

yes, you will be surprised.
basha khan
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Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
for me,java is the BEST programming language to code.the only limitation is slowness of swing and some packaging issues.in java u should include a JRE in installation package for installing into client systems.for small applications,mostly internet applications,it's a drawback.java is to be platform-dependent and platform-independent.so we can easly choose java for native applications too.
basha
Sameer Jamal
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Joined: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 1870
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

Slightly off the topic ... but is VB still in use ??
I mean 2-tier architecture still in production ?
or I am too much in to Java :roll:

What makes VB powerfull (I mean still going) is Activex/COM support n u can work on n tier architecture too.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
Slightly off the topic ... but is VB still in use ??

Gartner estimates that there are at least twice as many VB programmers as Java programmers.
Amy Phillips
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Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Posts: 280
must be because VB is easier to learn than Java
John Lee
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Posts: 2545
vb is easy to start, but not so easy to become a expert at. actually, this is probably the case with every language. as most programmers out there, i like java better!
Steven Broadbent
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Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 400
delphi is good, and its strictly OO for all
you hard core propeller heads.


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basha khan
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Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
java is superb.but why sun not making native toolkit for java?.if it is for making JRE populer,i dont think it worked.JRE only found on developer's systems.i dont found any JRE in user's systems.all small(utility) programs are now coming in .exe form for windows so common users can easely install it.so programmers of small internet downloadable programs choose c++ instead.debugging c++ codes for network require double effort than java.native java is defenetely appreciated.what about VJ++ and VJ#.NET?.compatible for making .exe stuff or require Microsoft VM installation? or .NET frameWork installation?.
if sun is not making,MS will do it.i think that 'windows' will remain as USER platform for at least 20 years.so native compiler is a must.
basha
R K Singh
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Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Amy Phillips:
must be because VB is easier to learn than Java

VB is too vast.
Now today I can say that I know java 50%. Atleasr I have heard name of packages though I have not used it.
In VB, I remeber every next day I would come to know abt some new library or whatever they call which you have to include.
But thats true that VB is too easy .... I think till now no IDE, is better than VB.. Eclipse is slow.... some times it irritates ....
Erwin Bredford
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 167
i think the criteria for choosing the best language for gui should not be based on what everyone else is using cos' everyone else could be wrong and probably too lazy.


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Jim Yingst
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I sympathize with this attitude - but like it or not, "what everyone else is using" often is relevant, because management may be justifiably concerned with questions like "how easy will it be to find/train staff who will be qualified to maintain this program?"


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Mohanlal Karamchand
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Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 189
Most developers would prefer not be mucking around with hundreds of lines of code to create the UI. If this takes up most of your energy you are likely to produce a great looking body and a lousy engine. VB can help you to rapidly create a snazzy looking UI ( so can Delphi and C++ builder), but as a language it lacks some very essential features such as explicit control of memory allocation, pointers and a proper inheritance mechanism (I hear that some of the issues such as inheritance have been dealt with in VB.NET). The only languages (suitable for Windows development) that give you the same amount of control are Delphi and C++. The Delphi libraries (VCL) are really good and the IDE is superb. Visual C++ takes up nearly as much time as directly calling the windows API to do your windowing. Borland's C++ Builder is a good option if you like C++.
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
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Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11424
    
  85

basha khan said: if sun is not making,MS will do it.i think that 'windows' will remain as USER platform for at least 20 years.so native compiler is a must.
In Australia there have already been some major companies move away from Microsoft following their License 6 issues.
With the restrictions on XP and the plan by Microsoft to make even more restrictions, I think more and more companies will move away.
<Rant mode on>
Have you seen the restrictions which will come into play if they get the new chips installed on the motherboard?Microsoft will be able to force updates on you (if you dont get your updates regularly the OS stops working) and the updates will only be available on subscription. Microsoft will own the master keys to these totally proprietary chips, so you will not be able to run any other OS on the hardware that you bought. Since Microsoft own the keys, in theory they can give them to any govnernment department. And since Microsoft can force updates on you, they can "accidently" break any application you are currently running (similar to what they tried with Netscape) and you dont even have the option of refusing an update if you know it is going to break your software.
<rant mode off>
I think within the next 5 to 10 years so many companies will be frightened of where Microsoft is going that Microsoft will no longer be able to claim that they have the greatest market share of the desktop.
Regards, Andrew


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R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
I think within the next 5 to 10 years so many companies will be frightened of where Microsoft is going that Microsoft will no longer be able to claim that they have the greatest market share of the desktop.

IMO, in next 5-10 yrs, home PC market will grow and for home PCs MS is the only choice. No one would like to be master of linux to check his mail on internet or to do a transaction.
I think MS will survive till someone does not come better than WINDOWS, which is nearly impossible now.
But you never know ..
Sameer Jamal
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Joined: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 1870
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

I think MS will survive till someone does not come better than WINDOWS, which is nearly impossible now.
But you never know ..

Have you tried Winlinux well I've tried so I think it is not nearly impossible but it is not possible at all to break the monopoly of M$hit
John Lee
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Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
i found some people think vb is the best gui language, some do not. but over all, it is fair to say vb is a contender for the title.
it is true until .net comes along. i guess vb .net is more powerful therefore better than vb. i just have vs .net installed on my computer today. i hope i can find more about it.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Mohanlal Karamchand:
VB can help you to rapidly create a snazzy looking UI ( so can Delphi and C++ builder), but as a language it lacks some very essential features such as explicit control of memory allocation, pointers and a proper inheritance mechanism (I hear that some of the issues such as inheritance have been dealt with in VB.NET).
Actually VB.Net is very similar to Java and C#. VB.Net can even inherit from a C# program!
But "explicit control of memory allocation, pointers". If I'm not mistaken, Java doesn't have these things!!!
Mark Spritzler
ranger
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Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17250
    
    6

Oracle Forms.
Actually just kidding there.
"but is VB still in use ??" Very very much so, I find more job listings for VB than any other GUI builder.
VB is the easiest and fastet to build a GUI.
Now one question that hasn't been raised has to do with reports. With any application there is almost always reports. This is where there is some major differences. And plays an important part in the development tool chosen for a company.
In VB you have Crystal Reports, Active Reports and some other smaller known reporting tools. I prefer Crystal, give lots of flexibility.
In Java there are some tools out there but most of these require a reports server and tend to be pricy. (This was my finding a couple of years ago, maybe its changed). If printing is a big issue, then Java on the front end might not be your chose.
Now some will say what about XSLT, Web Pages, or PDF through JSP or Servlets and you can get great reports. I agree, but the cost of learning how to make the great reports and the time it would take to get to that point is very costly. You might have to hire an expert in these areas.
OK, I am tired now.
Mark


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Erwin Bredford
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Jim Yingst said:
I sympathize with this attitude - but like it or not, "what everyone else is using" often because management may be justifiably concerned with questions like "how easy will it be to find/train staff who will be qualified to maintain this program?"

don't pity me just yet.you have a point but i think this topic was put up for purely academic reasons of truly finding the best language for gui.
and a lot of factors have to be put in consideration other than ease.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Crystal is built into VisualStudio.NET. There is a slight learning curve (which right-click menu do I use to change the font) but putting up a report is a breeze. Crystal supports converting reports into PDF format, Excel, Word, or RTF with one line of code in your program. No client side code is required.
Francis Siu
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Joined: Jan 04, 2003
Posts: 867
Oracle Forms
Best tool
RAD technique is important today to build up GUI programming.
But my teacher told me that a license of another tool supporting the forms which run at server needed US200..
Oracle and VB.net------------>$^-^$
Java--------->
Of course,who want to build it up quickly,who should pay more $$$$.
So, It may be the $^-^$ is the best language for GUI programming.


Francis Siu
SCJP, MCDBA
Jim Yingst
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
don't pity me just yet.
No pity intended, just an alternate perspective. The "like it or not" applied to myself as much as anyone - I dislike having management interfere with what I think is "right" from a technical perspective, based on their own notions of "ease of maintenance" - but (a) sometimes they're right, and (b) sometimes they're wrong but I can't change their minds, so I do what I'm told...
you have a point but i think this topic was put up for purely academic reasons of truly finding the best language for gui. and a lot of factors have to be put in consideration other than ease.
There are plenty of ways to interpret "best" here - I see no evidence in the initial post that an academic purist approach should necessarily be assumed. I'm not saying maintenance issues are the only issues that matter, just that they may (often) be significant considerations. It's not clear what criteria basha is using, so IMO it's premature to say "don't worry about what everyone else is doing". Though that may still turn out to be good advice. Too many unknowns here...
 
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