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Most Influential Band/Musician... Ever!

Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Ok,
MD's got boring lately... I mean whats up with you guys? Where the passion? Lately we've had his Menardness kicking it up with political threads on Iraq and George W(itless) Bush. Theres been a thread on US/India Penis Envy competition, and Don Liu having conversations with himself.
The only thing thats made me laugh lately is Sriraj and his crusade to root out the infidels of Javaranch.
Ive decided that as things are too boring here, Id really like to stir them up. Hence this thead. Basically we're gonna argue who has been the influential band or musician in the last *60 years*.
Why 60? Because Pop is roughly 60. Originally I thought I would cast this survey over the last 20 years, in hoping that it would be narrowed down to a few bands like U2, REM, Nirvana etc etc. But then if I do that, I sneakily ignore the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zepplin and of course, the King "a huh huh! Thank you momma!".
So Im opening it up to more or less anything post-war WWII, and Im stirring it up big-time because Im sure you all have your ideas of who's the best...
So, crying "Come and have a go if you think youre hard enough!" and letting slip the pit bulls of war... heres my nomination for the best band / musician ever.
U2. These guys have been about for the last 24 years. I cant think of many bands who have outlasted them with the original lineup. They came to the fore in the 80s, and theyve managed to retain their credibility thought the 90's and noughties by constantly reinventing themselves.
Your opinions are most welcome. Although I probably wont agree with them. Bring it on!

Rules:
1) If youre going to nominate someone / some band, youve got to back it up with a reason why.
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Fletcher ]

Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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    6

In what way do you mean infuential?
If you mean a band/musician that personally influenced me I would have to say Billy Corgan, formally of Smashing Pumpkins and now with Zwan.
If you mean a band/musician that influenced the music industry/world as a whole, that gets a bit trickier. Because though I may not like some of these bands/musicians, they have still influenced music in a big way.
1. Beatles - Personal belief, a bunch of no talents. They were just doing it first. But influential non-the-less
2. Led Zeplin - Self Explanitory
3. Micheal Jackson - King of Pop regardless, but not a big fan these days. He is just strange now
4. Jimmy Hendrix - Da Man! But he never should have sang.


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Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
In what way do you mean infuential?
If you mean a band/musician that influenced the music industry/world as a whole, that gets a bit trickier. Because though I may not like some of these bands/musicians, they have still influenced music in a big way.
1. Beatles - Personal belief, a bunch of no talents. They were just doing it first. But influential non-the-less
2. Led Zeplin - Self Explanitory
3. Micheal Jackson - King of Pop regardless, but not a big fan these days. He is just strange now
4. Jimmy Hendrix - Da Man! But he never should have sang.

I would have to say what influenced you personally. Its the only criteria thats going to stir up the most flames.
The "who has influenced the music industry / world as a whole" category can be easily exploited by the rules lawyers, as it could be argued that the achievements of more contemporary bands were built on the achievements of their predecessors. "Standing on the shoulders of giants".
I think that for now we should limit ourselves to personal influences, if some common trends begin to expose themselves, well we can move onto the latter argument.
Cheers,
Mark
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Most influential in the rock/pop genre would probably have to be The Beatles, although they don't do too much for me particularly, they have pretty much influenced every pop and rock act that has followed them up til today. If you wanted to expand your horizons, it's not any one single act, but the 60's Motown sound has been extremely influential. One also can't discount Bob Marly, who pretty much invented an entire genre. However we all know that variants of Rock are the only genres worth talking about so I will keep my discussion there.
There's no doubt that bands such as Led Zep, the Stones, and one of my all-time favourites - The Who, have been fairly influential. For that matter, so has Bob Dylan (atonally speaking of course). But you also mentioned the best I believe, not just the most influential, and I don't believe the two are necessarily related.
U2? Nah. Just another whiny Irish band. I know, name one Irish Band other than Thin Lizzy that wasn't whiny, but still...
Nirvana was pretty much just a fart in the wind. I'm not going to say they weren't influential, but they don't belong anywhere near the same category as some of these others.
I think to be considered "the best" one should have outstanding songwriting ability, outstanding musical ability and proficiency. There is a difference between those btw. "The best" should also be someone other musicians look towards for inspiration.
Given this criteria, I would probably have to go with Eric Clapton. The man can certainly write songs. He has remained relevant since the 60's, writing not only immensely popular and accessable rock tunes, but also scoring for film. He certainly isn't faking it and is someone who also understands the theoretical side of music. He is considered a premiere guitar player, technically one of the greatest. And finally he has influenced countless other musicians. I think he is as worthy of the title as anyone.
And if not Eric Clapton, maybe Falco.
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Ahh, but if you want to say personally influential, I would have to go with The Who, and Michael Schenker.
Nobody has kept it rocking like The Who have. And until the recent tragic death of John Entwistle, imho they were actually sounding better than they ever have.
Michael Schenker had always been my guitar deity. I saw his band open for Rush (snooz-a-rama), and aside from maybe 20 other people in the building I don't think many others there were familiar with him, but listening to him play was almost a religious experience. It was amazing.
Mark Fletcher
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
U2? Nah. Just another whiny Irish band. I know, name one Irish Band other than Thin Lizzy that wasn't whiny, but still...

Jason,
I thought you were a pair of clown shoes trying to start a thread on "I love GWB" (roughly paraphrased) but dissing U2 as a "whiny Irish band" whoa... what a troll!
Describe to me how any of these tracks could be whiny:
"I will Follow"
"Gloria"
"Pride"
"Where the Streets have no name"
"I Still Havent Found What Im Looking For"
"Desire"
"Angel of Harlem"
"When Love Comes to Town"
"Mysterious Ways"
"Even Better than the Real Thing"
"One"
"Lemon"
"Numb"
"Stay"
"Discotheque"
"The Sweetest Thing"
"Beautiful Day"
"Elevation"
Whiny Irish band? Pack up, call a taxi and go home to yer mother Menard.
Only whiny song I can think of is "Bullet the Blue Sky"... wonder if its relevant to todays current affairs
Saying that there is a big whole in my music collection beginning with "W". Any recommendations?
PS: This thread is all about the flaming. If youre gonna be critical of other peoples choices, better back them up.
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Fletcher ]
Jason Menard
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Posts: 6450
Conspicuously absent from your list of non-whiny U2 songs are "New Years Day" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday". I'm thinking there's a reason for that. And personally I've always felt "Pride" and "Where the Streets Have No Name", while maybe not the definition of whiny, certainly had that whiny edge to them.
"Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Whiny"?
I do have to admit, despite the fact that I generally am not a huge U2 fan (I do like a few of their songs), their Super Bowl appearance was nothing short of outstanding. Whininess aside.
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Screw you guys!!
The most influential band of *ALL TIME* has to be Pink Floyd
They have changed the face of music by coming up with simply unmatched music and performances for so many years.
Beatles were copied easily and I think they were controversial more than anything else but PF came out with amazing songs like The Wall and Shine on You Crazy Diamond
PF has been the band with the most understandable lyrics (but it requires some listenening to)
My favourite PF Song.. Learning to Fly closely followed by Wish You Were Here


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Jim Yingst
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[JM]: I saw his band open for Rush (snooz-a-rama)

OK, before unleashing the attack hounds on you, I suppose I should ask when this was, approximately. (Ideally, which album were tehy touring for?) Some answers are more forgivable than others.
Can't comment much on Michael Schenker; not sure if I'd heard him previously. In general I'm more likely to notice keyboards, drums or bass rather than guitar, though there are exceptions. But I just listened to a few tracks on amazon, recent acoustic stuff; looks like I may have to investigate some more. Thanks! Even if you are an anti-Rush philistine.
As for the original questinon... hmmm... so many ways to answer this. When I hear "influential" I think in terms of influencing other musicians. And you didn't explicitly restrict the selection to "pop" (whatever exactly that would mean) so my first thought was Charlie Parker. (Hey, you said 60 years; he fits in nicely.) I can't think of anyone else in that time frame who has influenced so many talented musicians so profoundly.
But, OK, that's a little outside the genre you seem to be aiming for. For pop/rock (which I do listen to much more than jazz), in terms of industry influence, I'd have to go with Elvis or the Beatles. Never liked Elvis much myself. Mr Bolinger calls the Beatles "a bunch of no talents" - well, won't argue too much; they had some talent but the only realy exceptional thing they had going for them was Lennon/McCartney songwriting. Though George did some nice work both playing and composing. But anyway, I'm still talking about industry influence mostly. As we move more toward my own personal tastes, let's discard the "pop" and stick to rock. Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are favorites that I can at least hear on the radio occasionally. But to get to my real favorites - well, I think I'll go with early-seventies Genesis, as epitomized by Foxtrot, "Supper's Ready" specifically. Who also heavily influenced a number of other bands I like a lot, though mostly in Italy. Yes, ELP, King Crimson, and Van der Graaf Generator are other favorites from the same period. More recently, Änglagård , Spock's Beard, and Traumhaus are perhaps my favorites of the last decade.
All of the above kick the butts off everyone else's favorite bands.
(Although The Who get some respect for Baba O'Riley and some other later songs.)
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

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Richard Hawkes
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The most influential bands have to be the ones that turned me into annoying-teenage-music-fascist - The Cure and The Jesus and Mary Chain.
- The Cure had it all, cool guitar sounds, really, really amazing bass lines, cool hair and shoes and poetic, meaningful angst-filled lyrics (at least for a 15 year old). I can't listen to them today though without cringing. What was I thinking...
- The Mary Chain were just a blast. I was listening to Bon Jovi and Clapton around that time thinking this is just so lame but what else is there. Then I heard April Skies and was hooked - finally a band who's guitar riffs I can copy! The whole 3-chords-and-feedback song philosophy was the business. Plus they had that all important don't-give-a-shit attitude. These two bands were introduced to me by my girlfriend at the time and inspired me and my mates to start a band and drive our parents insane.
My all time favourite, ie the band that consistently amazed me (and still does on replays) were the Pixies. They had this weird latino-speed-punk thing going on (hard to describe). The guitar, bass and drums all superb/manic and the singing was just crazy. And they seemed like they were having so much fun too. They broke up years ago and Frank Black (the singer/songwriter) hasn't really done the same thing for me since.
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
Richard Hawkes
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PS:
Your favourite band sucks.
My favourite band rules.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Most influential musician: Ry Cooder. Ask other musicians.
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
U2. These guys have been about for the last 24 years. I cant think of many bands who have outlasted them with the original lineup. They came to the fore in the 80s, and theyve managed to retain their credibility thought the 90's and noughties by constantly reinventing themselves.
Hmmm ... the girlfriend who got me into the Cure was crazy about U2, (or rather Larry Mullen Jr). I couldn't compete with his good looks so just learned to dislike the band. Shallow? Yeah!
Actually they're quite good but there's something wrong with them I've never been able to put my finger on (whiny? ). Maybe its a certain smugness or insincerity. They do reinvent themselves true, but it never seems like its their idea. I dunno, can't really explain it. Love the Blood Red Sky live album though.
Thomas Paul
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The Ramones. Everyone else sucks.


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Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Actually they're quite good but there's something wrong with them I've never been able to put my finger on (whiny? ). Maybe its a certain smugness or insincerity. They do reinvent themselves true, but it never seems like its their idea. I dunno, can't really explain it. Love the Blood Red Sky live album though.

I know why you dont like U2, cos they're Aussie and you're a Brit. Old rivalries..
Anyway.. nothing compares to Pink Floyd and Scorpions
Loved the Gorky Park thing "Winds Of Change" for the unaware.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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U2 are Irish, not Australian.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Hmm.. must have got my bands mixed up then. Anyway, irish is equally bad. Brits fight with Irish too
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
They broke up years ago and Frank Black (the singer/songwriter) hasn't really done the same thing for me since.

That's who he is! There's a song of his called "Man of Steel" on Songs in the Key of X which I have always thought was pretty awesome. Check out the link, track 08, for a quick sample.
As an aside, that entire CD is incredible. By far the best compilation I have. I think many of the artists wrote the pices just for this CD. I don't have any CD that evokes a mood like this one does, espescially driving alone down a quiet highway on a dark rainy night. It gives me shivers thinking about it. While the whole thing is really good (a rarity these days), the tracks by Soul Coughing, Sheryl Crow, Foo Fighters, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Elvis Costello and Brian Eno, and of course Frank Black are particularly noteworthy imho. Check out the link.
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
That's who he is!
Yeah, he seems to have a thing about UFOs and aliens ... if you get a chance check out the Pixies Trompe le Monde album and Frank Black's first solo effort. A few UFO tracks on those! Note: He called himself Black Francis during the Pixies era, and his real name's Charles Thompson Michael Kettle the Third or something - Need to google...
Anyway looks like a good compilation. My fav compilation is quite old now, the Judgement Night soundtrack. Essentially metal/hip-hop collaborations. Not all great but the Dinosaur Jr/Del the Funky Homosapien track is excellent.
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
OK, before unleashing the attack hounds on you, I suppose I should ask when this was, approximately. (Ideally, which album were tehy touring for?) Some answers are more forgivable than others.

Upon doing some research, I can tell you it was their "Hold Your Fire" tour in 1987. I kid you not, I almost dozed off. To be fair they followed somebody who for me was a very tough act to follow (not that 99% of the crowd would share that sentiment, but still...). They had this huge stage... Neil Pert banging away rear center stage... Alex Lifeson, barely moving, stage left (as you looked at it) with some kind of Bryan Adams-esque hair thing going on.. and off to the right, an equally immobile mop of hair with a big nose sticking out of it. The light show was only so-so. What can I say? Besides, I did go to see the opening act. Even the crowd was pretty sedate.. although I should probably mention that i think the last concert in that place I saw previous to that was either Iron Maiden, Dio and Megadeth. (Yes, I was one of those kids in high school)
Can't comment much on Michael Schenker; not sure if I'd heard him previously.
(NOTE: all following links are to short music clips from Amazon)
His biggest success probably came with UFO in the 1970's, although he did play on at least two Scorpions albums with his brother Rudolph. The rest of his time was spent in various incarnations of his own band, MSG (link, link, link), which had various amounts of success mostly in Europe and Japan.
If anyone is a Hendrix fan (I know , who isn't), there's always the German Jimi Hendrix - Uli Jon Roth. The guy is an amazing guitar player, and heavily influenced by Hendrix. The only problem is he's not a particularly good songwriter, and he sings far worse than Hendrix. Check out this and this for his solo stuff, or this for some of his stuff with early Scorpions.
(Although The Who get some respect for Baba O'Riley and some other later songs.)
/me holds a lighter in the air in salute
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Andres Gonzalez
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Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
... and Don Liu having conversations with himself....



College hoops trivia... he's the only one asking questions.. and answering them...
Best Band
Queen ... Try to find a character like Freddie Mercury.... unique!
Most influential Bands/Musician
The Beatles
Elvis P.
Michael Jackson


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Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
Beatles - Personal belief, a bunch of no talents.
shocking talk! Even if you didn't like the music, they certainly had talent. I love Revolver to the White Album. My main problem with them is they never stuck with the styles I like! And lets not forget The Frog Song ...
Micheal Jackson - King of Pop regardless, but not a big fan these days.
Certainly but never my fav though. My influential pop-star would be Madonna.
Jimmy Hendrix - Da Man! But he never should have sang.


[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
David O'Meara
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Posts: 13459

Hmm influential.
I like the Pixies and Jesus and Mary Chain mentions. Definitely. The thing I loved the most about he Pixies style of music is they got in there, did the song for as long as it made sense, then stopped. I believe the average song length was under 3 minutes. The Ramones too, a very important band.
In terms of the band I've heard most often as influencing other successful bands: My Bloody Valentine.
I know why you dont like U2, cos they're Aussie and you're a Brit. Old rivalries..
I disagree (beyond the obvious). Britain is often considered the proving grounds for Aussie bands before attempting the USA market.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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    6

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
The Ramones. Everyone else sucks.

I dig on the Ramones!
Richard Hawkes
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Posts: 1340
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Spock's Beard
Never heard of them but with a name like that I thought they had to be worth a look and listen! They remind a little of a band called The Cardiacs. Will have to go to Amazon I think...
John Lee
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College hoops trivia... he's the only one asking questions.. and answering them...

the chance is your next manager is a college basketball fun, so how do you plan to keep your conversation going?
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
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Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Have you tried Googlefight?
For example,
Michael Schenker versus The Ramones
The winner is: The Ramones


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David O'Meara
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Posts: 13459

Jimmy Hendrix - Da Man! But he never should have sang.
I disagree. If you consider the guitar as the most important element and the vocals as secondary, there isn't a problem. I think more in terms of Jeff Buckley since I'm not a Hendrix fan, but a song without vocals is an instrumental, and you're only one step short of classical music then
Map will probably have an opinion on the importance of words in a song to create emotion and increase the impact of a song, but whatever the reason, I want vocals, and I'm happy for them to be sub standard as long as they aren't awful.
Andres Gonzalez
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Posts: 1561
Originally posted by Don Liu:

the chance is your next manager is a college basketball fun, so how do you plan to keep your conversation going?

hmm.. goood point.. .. keep asking then, I'll try to find the answer before you post it
Manav Mitra
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Joined: Jun 01, 2003
Posts: 44
Beatles and Elvis were indeed very influential here!! I disagree that beatles didn't have much talent, awesome talent man -- but may be too repetative/monotonous. There are far too many cover versions of their songs popular toda yas well. McCarteny/Lennon were too good!
But as for unique style, Pink Floyd rules. They are unmatched, but they ar not my favs.
My fav - Lobo!
- Manav
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
Have you tried Googlefight?
I tried Elvis vs Presley.
Elvis won.
Axel Janssen
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Posts: 2164
- am missing very influential (and nice to hear) 70ties David Bowie and Velvet Underground.
- all this cuban-son Buena Vista Social Club stuff discovered by Ry Cooder is good (much better than salsa or merengue).
- Ramones allways played the same song, called pet cemetery or the like. But its excelent song.
SJ Adnams
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guitar player - Al DiMeola
Jack Frozen
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 03, 2003
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why is this discussion missing THE PINK FLOYD?
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Posts: 18671
why is this discussion missing THE PINK FLOYD?
Mostly because you didn't read enough posts, I think.
Varun Khanna
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Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Jack Frozen:
why is this discussion missing THE PINK FLOYD?

"THE PINK FLOYD" or "PINK FLOYD"
its the same band ...


- Varun
Cindy Glass
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Paul Simon.


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John Lee
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whiteney houston
Paul Stevens
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Aerosmith
Mark Spritzler
ranger
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    6

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
[qb]Spock's Beard
Never heard of them but with a name like that I thought they had to be worth a look and listen! They remind a little of a band called The Cardiacs. Will have to go to Amazon I think...[/QB]


or you can go to www.spocksbeard.com and buy them directly.
I will say that Spock's Beard is my all time favorite band. They are #1 on my list. I have seen them live many times and their concerts bring me to tears.
Some comparisons are to Genesis and Gentle Giant.
I am actually going to see them play tonight at the Viper room on Sunset blvd in Hollywood. You know the place, this is where River Phoenix passed away.
Mark


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subject: Most Influential Band/Musician... Ever!