aspose file tools*
The moose likes Meaningless Drivel and the fly likes A shrinking Middle Class. Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


Win a copy of Spring in Action this week in the Spring forum!
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Other » Meaningless Drivel
Bookmark "A shrinking Middle Class." Watch "A shrinking Middle Class." New topic
Author

A shrinking Middle Class.

Tony Evans
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 579
Everyone is talking about offshore outsourcing, and its economic effect on a country, but what about the social effect. These jobs that are being outsourced basic accountancy, development and design, electronic manufacturing, amongst others are what we in Britain term middle class jobs.
Amongst the Middle Class and skilled working class there is a real fear for the future many are worried about redundancies, we have a real morale problem.
This is reflected in an ever increasing fall in the birth rate, many young professional couples are putting marriage and family raising plans on hold as they do not feel secure or that there life is stable enough to support a family.
In Britain today we have what we call permanent underclass, people with dead end life’s with no future, these are mainly concentrated in areas where we used to have a thriving manufacturing industry, there has been no fall in the birth-rate in these economic black spots, in fact there has been an increase in young single teenage mothers.
It is a fact that children born into a underclass environment are more likely to stay in that environment just as those children from middle class backgrounds are more likely to enter a middle class profession.
I myself came from a economic black spot I escaped by first joining the army, but many of my former friends, those who are still alive still live in the same area, some arising two or three families, when I mean raising I mean getting a girl pregnant then turning up know and again.
Most of my successful friends come from successful or stable families.
While America is big enough to survive problems such as these Britain is not.
We have a growing underclass, a ever increase in crime, a demoralised middle class a ruling class that seems to care nothing for the country while drawing ever increasing big pay cheques. All extremist movements grow when they start to attract the Middle Class. In Britain a number of far right parties are know attracting middle class voters, who are voting out of protest.
Or am I being to pessimistic.
Cheers Tony
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
IMO the only people having babies are 'single teenage mothers', immigrants (first/second or even third generation), + very rich.
middle class families are indeed an oxymoron.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
Thanks for the generalizations, now has anyone got anything to back them up?
Did you know that more accidents happen to people driving red colored cars than any other color car?


SCWCD: Online Course, 50,000+ words and 200+ questions
http://www.examulator.com/moodle/course/view.php?id=5&topic=all
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
unmarried mothers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2570503.stm
They show that over the last decade there has been a 10% rise in births outside marriage, from 30% in 1991 to 40% in 2001.
teen mothers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2014175.stm
The UK has the second highest teenage pregnancy rate in the developed world, a survey has found.
ethnic birth rate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1556901.stm
Britain's ethnic minorities are growing at 15 times the rate of the white population, newly-published research shows.
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
accidents happen to people driving red colored cars

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/X-Press/stories/022802/ppl_mdsd.html
"It's true red, yellow and white cars are involved in less accidents - they are on the side of the road getting tickets," Verret said.
Red, yellow and white cars are the most visible and they are most frequently ticketed.
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164

Or am I being to pessimistic.

yes. I think so.

Our grandparents suffered 2 world wars, fachism, stalinism and what do I know.
And now we have internet:
western europe/US: all jobs are going to Asia.
Asia: Now there is RAD tools no jobs will come to India.
Expectation for IT went down in the last 3 years. Agreed.
But with all due respect, for my taste you exagerate a little.
Axel
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
"Britain's ethnic minorities are growing at 15 times the rate of the white population, newly-published research shows. "
And what was the birth rate comparisons amongst the newly arrived Hugenots in Britain in the late 1600, what was the brith rate comparison amongst the European Jews arriving around 1900.
Did the dirt poor Jews who gathered in the East End of London and Leeds stay dirt poor or did they become more affluent and middle class.
Why does the UK have such a high birthrate amongst teenagers by comparison with the rest of europe, what is the effect on their lives economically by comparison with 50 years go when the children would probably have been taken into homes.
Has the ratio of single parents changed accross all strata of society (remember the original posting suggested there was a shrinking middle class). How do you define middle class? Home ownership? Newspapers read, educational attainment. Are we seeing a fall off in educational achievment. Are fewer books being purchased?
Welcome to sociology...
[ June 12, 2003: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
Marcus, I don't see your point?
Of course birth rates amoungst immigrants (1st+2nd generation) are higher than the local rate. Sociology? I'd say human geography. I'm sure this has been the case since the beginning of time.
Birth rate as a function of household income is something that would be available in census data. probably household size vs income will be available.
Ok so 'middle class' may be an antiquated term. I would say that 'families not receiving state benefits' would be a something that is easier to pick out in census data. There are all sorts of social group codes 'AB1' is probably closer to 'middle class' but Tony talks about an 'underclass', which I would say meets the state benefit criteria better.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
My point is that the original post suggested there is a "growing underclass" and I was questioning if this is backed by evidence.
Housholds not recieving state benefits is a dubious metric in the UK with its range of non means tested payments, where would "family allowance" fit in (if it is still called that).
Marcus
[ June 12, 2003: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
If we accept that class membership is also alot about self perception (there are very blurred boundries between the working class and mc outside of "official definitions"), another theory for a shrinking mc is some mc groups have started to think of themselves as wc because of how employment practises have changed over the past 10 years. Traditionally mc jobs that offered long term security are now subject to the same forces that effect traditionally wc jobs - increasing contractual work and unstable working environments. Financial unstability/uncertaintly = working class!
There is much more to class than just perception of course but I think the real consequences of class differences lie at the extremes ie. the underclasses and the super rich.
As to whether the underclasses are growing I haven't got a clue!
Tony Evans
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 579
Ok if I leave class out of it and it stead switch to a stake in society.
There has been a growth amongst those who believe they do not have a stake in Britain future.
Every City and major town in Britain now contains one or more what is termed sink estates.
These are growing.
Many do believe they have a stake in Britain future, but that it is not stable, redundancies are a lot more common, we all know the mantra no job is for life.
As an individual you have to be flexible in a very inflexible job market so many who are working are spending a lot of there spare time upgrading other skills just in case. This leaves less time for socialising, (unless you are a work hard play hard individual) raising a family or taking an interest in your community or society
(what happens to a regiment if the officers are so overworked they have no time for the men).
Yes I am a pessimistic , but as well as being a IT worker I was also in the Military both full and part time for over 13 years, and a major part of that time was spent in Counter Insurgency (People watching, spotting trends identifying extremist organisations and why people are attracted to them).
I served in Bosnia when it first went loco. In nearly all the paramilitaries on all sides you had the same org, a gang of underclass led by middle class individuals who felt that they had been squeezed out of society.
History has proved over and over again, that the most dangerous mix is a growing underclass and a demoralised Middle Class who are increasingly worried about their future.
Cheers Tony
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
Tony, move out of Hackney. That place is killling you.
Tony Evans
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 579
Hackney is all right born and bred in the East End. And the burning cars at the end of the street are always a source of amusement. Of course on a civil service pay there is not much option for moving.
I gave up on IT to unstable fed up earning a mint one year and then living of my savings the next.
Also with the civil service you get to go on training courses, and they even encourage on the job training. And no one expects you to be an instant expert, and best of all to work in the civil service you have to live here and have a British passport.
Cheers Tony
 
permaculture playing cards
 
subject: A shrinking Middle Class.