aspose file tools*
The moose likes Meaningless Drivel and the fly likes Secrets and Love Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Other » Meaningless Drivel
Bookmark "Secrets and Love" Watch "Secrets and Love" New topic
Author

Secrets and Love

Nanhesru Ningyake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
The wife says, if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords. The loving hubby has nothing to hide, but still wants to hang on to his passwords - the last vestige of his individuality. Can secrets and true love coexist?
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
In a word - yes, but don't succumb to all that "If you really loved me" bollocks, you'll never know all the secrects of a woman - but she'll want to know all yours, thats because most woman are naturally control freaks in the sense that they need to know and control their partner in order for him to be a worthy guardian for their offspring.

It's all a bit two faced really, but that's just from my own experience.
Sara Jahan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
The wife says, if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords...

I know my fiance's password to all his mail accounts. I have never misused (as in, sending mails from his account, checking I do everyday!!) it except once when we had a very serious tiff. I changed the password and the secret question and stuff.
/Sara
sunitha reghu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
The wife says, if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords. The loving hubby has nothing to hide, but still wants to hang on to his passwords - the last vestige of his individuality. Can secrets and true love coexist?

Love exists on trust not on passwords. U have to tell ur wife "honey if u really love me then u have to trust me".
One of my senior in college told me when he got married his wife wants to know all pwds and finally he gave. After that she started suspecting each and every mail. He created another account for his friends so wife doesnt know.
[ June 13, 2003: Message edited by: sunitha raghu ]
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

It should work both ways. Your wife should trust you and not need all your passwords. And the husband should not have anything to hide. It should be a silent trust between the 2 in which the wife trusts the husband enough not to need passwords, and the husband should have nothing to hide in the first place.
So it's a 2 way street. Anytime a spouse begins a proposition with "If you really love me..." there is something wrong in your relationship.


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
I think there is no relation in between love and secret.
I can love you but still not tell you my secrets, as they are mine, not ours.
Still wondering, what relation could secrets have with love


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
sunitha reghu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
I think there is no relation in between love and secret.
I can love you but still not tell you my secrets, as they are mine, not ours.
Still wondering, what relation could secrets have with love


Do u have lot of secrets??? just asking...
basha khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
I think there is no relation in between love and secret.

there is relation between love and secret.love at it's best form mean trust.if u trust a person fullest,there is no secret.
but u cant trust a person fully.becoz no person can trust himself fully(who is 100% confedent?).our thinking is lot related to external and internal physical happenings.
give passwords.all passwords for all accounts she knows.once again..only all accounts that she knows.
basha
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by sunitha raghu:

Do u have lot of secrets??? just asking...

Who knows ..
But Ghyani, Mahatma says that women secrets are deeper than ocean
One can find the depth of ocean, but cant find the depth of women's heart
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
if u trust a person fullest,there is no secret.
OK... but there is no secret after trusting her/him. What abt before that ??
all passwords for all accounts she knows.once again..only all accounts that she knows.

And thats what I am saying .. once I trust a person after that there is no secret
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
Sounds a bit unecessary. I'd go with the "trust me" arguement. Or tell her to stop being so daft (though that might mean a few lonely nights...).
[ June 13, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
I know my fiance's password to all his mail accounts.
How can you be sure you know all his mail accounts?
The wife says, if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords.
That's the stupidest sequence of words I read last months. Even in marriage everybody should have right to decide what to share with a spouse and what not. What your spouse want to share with you, you should accept as a gift, not as a trophy of a marriage certificate.


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
basha khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
And thats what I am saying .. once I trust a person after that there is no secret

u dont told it before.u told like this,
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
I think there is no relation in between love and secret.

both views are entirely different.
basha
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by basha khan:

both views are entirely different.
basha

>>.. once I trust a person after that there is no secret
I trust you to share my Java exp. and meaningless views but I dont trust you enough to share my personal views.
And there will be someone with whom I am not sharing java exp/secrets at all and shraing something else which I think s/he is worth.
Who says wife/lover is worth to share all things ..
I think now I am clear.
[ June 13, 2003: Message edited by: Ravish Kumar ]
basha khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 516
>>.. once I trust a person after that there is no secret
I trust you to share my Java exp. and meaningless views but I dont trust you enough to share my personal views.
And there will be someone with whom I am not sharing java exp/secrets at all and shraing something else which I think s/he is worth.
Who says wife/lover is worth to share all things ..
I think now I am clear.

making dog to cat by just explaining that dog=cat?
basha
Michael Morris
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2002
Posts: 3451
That's the stupidest sequence of words I read last months. Even in marriage everybody should have right to decide what to share with a spouse and what not. What your spouse want to share with you, you should accept as a gift, not as a trophy of a marriage certificate.
Wow Map, now I know why so many American men are going after Russian mail order brides. Your attitude is in sharp contrast to that of most American women. I agree with what you say to an extent, but there should be no secrets of grave importance between husband and wife. Of course this issue about passwords certainly doesn't fall into that category.


Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Ernst F. Schumacher
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by basha khan:

making dog to cat by just explaining that dog=cat?
basha

dog=cat=man=animal
Mitchell Kave
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 70
Sara Jahan
ranch hand
Member # 48615
posted June 13, 2003 08:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
The wife says, if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know my fiance's password to all his mail accounts. I have never misused (as in, sending mails from his account, checking I do everyday!!) it except once when we had a very serious tiff. I changed the password and the secret question and stuff.
/Sara


I think sara and other ppl in this board should know their spouses any email address passwords coz it's not right at all.
i do believe love is something that hard to control once your partner change the way they love u.FOr me,i think they she/he should have the right to keep some secret for themselves.
Trust should not be counted on the passwords and etc.
that's my advice for the ppl in here! Thanks.


-
Sara Jahan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Mitchell Kave:
I think sara and other ppl in this board should know their spouses any email address passwords coz it's not right at all.

I am as much him as he is me. We are "us" and others are "them". I got to know his password in a very "natural" way. He had gone for a trip to the Himalayan foothils (no Internet there!!) and wanted me to check his mails in his absence. He didn't bother to chenge after he came back. He got to know my password in a similar way.
I am studying in UK right now. He is in India. It quiet nice knowing whatever little is happening in his life and vice versa.
But I am a realist. I know we may think differently after we are married. May need some space afterwards. But then tomorrow is tomorrow. I am bothered in making today as nice and as bearable as possible.
/Sara
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sara Jahan:

He didn't bother to chenge after he came back.

This is major/fatal bug in Male system.
It can trust anyone
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by Michael Morris:
Wow Map, now I know why so many American men are going after Russian mail order brides. Your attitude is in sharp contrast to that of most American women.

Frankly, I have no idea how my personal views relate to those of all Russian women, or even their restricted subset - mail order brides. But your "... sharp contrast to that of most American women" -- are you sure? Most American women I met look sane. It's hard to believe that most of them would insist on knowing their spouse passwords... "if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords" -- this is pure manipulation. Why does she need his passwords anyway, to check his E-mail??? And this is called "love"? What a joke. I cannot believe *most* of American (or any other group of women for that matter) are like this, maybe a small percent, but not most.
Michael Morris
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2002
Posts: 3451
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:

Frankly, I have no idea how my personal views relate to those of all Russian women, or even their restricted subset - mail order brides. But your "... sharp contrast to that of most American women" -- are you sure? Most American women I met look sane. It's hard to believe that most of them would insist on knowing their spouse passwords... "if you truly love me, we should know each other's passwords" -- this is pure manipulation. Why does she need his passwords anyway, to check his E-mail??? And this is called "love"? What a joke. I cannot believe *most* of American (or any other group of women for that matter) are like this, maybe a small percent, but not most.

Most may have been a poor choice, but many would certainly fit. Just consider the popularity of internet spy software these days. My guess is that most of it is purchased by American women (can't find any statistics to back that up though) who don't trust their husbands and maybe justly so. But IMO that is wrong even if there is reason to be suspicious. Trust is at the very foundation of love. Without it, love has little chance of survival and once trust has been betrayed it is a very long and arduous journey back. Any person that wants to control even the most miniscule aspects of another person's life has no true concept of love. It's not just women either. I have a brother who has been married three times. The first time for two weeks, the second time for about twelve years and the last time two weeks. The first and third could not take his total control freak ways (makes you wonder why they married him in the first place ) and the second was mentally unstable. I just believe that American women have become more prone to being control freaks since the 60s when the women's lib movement got started.
Mitchell Kave
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 70
I am as much him as he is me. We are "us" and others are "them". I got to know his password in a very "natural" way. He had gone for a trip to the Himalayan foothils (no Internet there!!) and wanted me to check his mails in his absence. He didn't bother to chenge after he came back. He got to know my password in a similar way.
I am studying in UK right now. He is in India. It quiet nice knowing whatever little is happening in his life and vice versa.
But I am a realist. I know we may think differently after we are married. May need some space afterwards. But then tomorrow is tomorrow. I am bothered in making today as nice and as bearable as possible.
/Sara

Well,Sara
I'm not talking the way u did to your spouses.
i meant all the ppl in this boards.I know your stituation.It can't blame u alone of that.
It's accidentally u got to know his passwords.
THat's got nothing wrong with u.BUt,i do want to mention that if your love is about to change.
You got nothing to for it except u face the reality.It's not whether u have this email account or other passwords.It's useless.
IF u have to keep your partner to live with u forever. TRY to love,care and understand each other And not by email passwords. ))
HOpe everyone try to be more mature.
LOve is all around!
TAKe care and be loved!!!
Nanhesru Ningyake
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2000
Posts: 452
>Why does she need his passwords anyway
You see, normal wives aren't mechas or software programs They are a bundle of love, fears, desire, envy and occasional sappiness. Dealing with them is like playing Emotion Minesweeper - an NP-Complete problem So one should learn to expect anything... anything from them.
A hubby should hope, just hope that he responds in the right way - right at that moment only - because there are no absolutes here - imagine a minesweeper game where the mines surreptitiously shift around. It's like those scenes in Matrix 2, where the same doors lead to different locations at different times...
[ June 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nanhesru Ningyake ]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
>Why does she need his passwords anyway
You see, normal wives aren't mechas or software programs They are a bundle of love, fears, desire, envy and occasional sappiness. Dealing with them is like playing Emotion Minesweeper - an NP-Complete problem So one should learn to expect anything... anything from them.
A hubby should hope, just hope that he responds in the right way - right at that moment only - because there are no absolutes here - imagine a minesweeper game where the mines surreptitiously shift around. It's like those scenes in Matrix 2, where the same doors lead to different locations at different times...
[ June 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nanhesru Ningyake ]

That's very well-written, Nanhesru!
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
A hubby should hope, just hope that he responds in the right way - right at that moment only - because there are no absolutes here -

The problem is that most men keep looking for a "one response fits all" solution. They think that they should be able to learn a pattern and always get the same response to it, as opposed to actually understanding what is involved in this particular situation. Then they are SOOOOO suprised when the woman does not always react in the same canned pre-planned manner, because this situation is different than the last one.
At any rate - it never even occurred to me to ask my husband for his passwords. I barely have time to keep up with my OWN stuff, without monitoring his. :roll:


"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
Then they are SOOOOO suprised when the woman does not always react in the same canned pre-planned manner, because this situation is different than the last one
Man, I gave up on any reliable or predictable response coming from a woman. (Makes my life, so much easier.)


"No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does."
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
One thing I notice from reading replies is that there are lots of differents ways to make a relationship work. I guess one has to find what works well for you. I'm don't think we can blindly copy our friends' relationships and expect them to work for us.
------
I would suggest looking past the comment for the intention and any underly fear/motivations behind it to see if it is a comfortable request for you coming from that person.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Ultimately just be yourselves and work at your relationship - if it does'nt work out or one of you feels well out of place in the relationship, then it was'nt to be.
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Man, I gave up on any reliable or predictable response coming from a woman. (Makes my life, so much easier.)
This is interesting. I never heard women complaining about unpredictability of other women. Apparently we are pretty transparent to each other. I never heard women complaining about unpredictability of men either -- primitiveness, yes, but not unpredictability. I cannot understand what it is in us that makes us so mysterious for men. I believe it's nothing but a myth. If men weren't taught that women are unpredictable, they would figure us out in two seconds.
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
Map: I cannot understand what it is in us that makes us so mysterious for men. I believe it's nothing but a myth.

I truly believe, IMHO, that I am not a sexist man, as I choose/try not to be; buuuuut I just can't agree with your nothing but a myth theory. Heck maybe its culture, maybe its nurture, maybe its lack of testosterone, or estrogen, maybe its different views of the same world - but whatever the heck it is, I know this - If I expect total logic from females, I'm going to get screwed - most of the time.
Example: You ask your woman to come out with your buddies to watch the playoff games cause you feel guilty and she laughs it off as dumb, then accuses you of not wanting her around if you don't ask her the next time. When you act suprised the answer is --> Well I don't want to go, I just want you to ask me though, so I can say, 'No'. (uhh... okay???!!!)
Note, this theme comes in many variations. I wan't even go into the "Am I fat OR Are my tits small/too big" areas. Now you can say that this is a one-time thing or just an individual thing, but my buddies and I always come across this stuff, much to our amusement. I can't really describe how much laughter this evokes from the men. And we're not exactly dealing with young, dumb babes either. When we get together and go round-robin swappin' stories we are all buckled over in laughter!!
------------
I do have my own solution for this knuckle-headedness though. I try not to expect total logic from my wife. And if I get broad-sided, (no pun intended), by some feminine mystique I say hello to my little friend... (I go to a mirror or reflective device and passionately ask my 'friend' if he has ever dealt with such non-sense, such craziness from his woman and how he deals with it - what advice he can give me b/c I'm trying SOOOO DAMN hard to understand and to be emotional - but I'm just a beginner, an amatuer!! blah blah blah. This usually makes her laugh and brings her back to her ~reasonable self. You know it's amazing at how often my 'friend' pops up and in some of the least likely places, just when I'm in a jam...

Then there's PMS. (Punish Me Satin!!) Oh boy, we all knew it was coming. (Ladies, don't kill me jest yet...) We all need to deal with this. It comes in all shapes and sizes, and many different packages, styles. You just take the hand your dealt and play your best hand, right? Boy, literally for ~one day of every month my wife turns into a bad-girl bitch (albeit harmless) with a mean streak to boot. But than she can wake up the next morning and make me a huge breakfast and treat me like a king and make me wonder if the day before was a bad bad dream - even she laughs when I point this out!! (Now I mark the calendar and hunker down and remind myself that a dog's a** gets tight in water...)

You know come to think of it... this crazy things are part of that wonderful, enduring, enticing, enchanting mystique of women, b/c I don't think I could do with out them...
I guess you win whatever we were debating.
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
Is it too late to cite another example???
RUE vs. Wade
Who'd ever thought!!
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
- but whatever the heck it is, I know this - If I expect total logic from females, I'm going to get screwed - most of the time.
I wonder what you mean by "logic" -- that women do not play by your rules? Again, if woman's behavior lacked any "logic", I guess women would have problem with understanding each other, and I do not have anything to support this conclusion with. So there must be two "logics" in this world...
John, I see that you read a lot of books, here is one that's pretty good:
Deborah Tannen. You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation
Her basic idea is that men and women live in different cultures and the same thing might signify something quite different for them. We are constantly trying to make sense of other side's behavior in our own system of coordinates, and miss the fact that he/she uses another system. It's like if somebody sent you a message using one coding schema, and you use your own for decoding -- no wonder the result is total crap. What worse, we naturally consider our decoding schema "right", self-evident , the only one that makes sense (and women no less than men) so the opposide side look pretty idiotic.
Then there's PMS.
Oh yeah. You forgot menopause. :roll: Popular women's wisdom says that men have only two explanations for woman's reactions: PMS or menopause. Again, why I never heard about this "problem" from women??? I never felt a need to call in supernatural forces of PMS and Menopause to explain other women's behavior, usually their reactions are quite understandable if you know the situation.
There is one exception, though. My mother used to have emotional drops, she could stop talking to me for weeks, being offended by something ridiculous. I finally figured, there is some chemistry involved, and whatever I will do, I cannot escape "offending" her. What on the earth all this has to do with PMS... She said that her own mother rumoredly had the same emotional disbalance, so it must be genetic. I sometimes feel unhappy without any apparent reason too, I guess it's nothing but chemistry. This is not logical, this is physiological.
[ June 18, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Is it too late to cite another example???
It's never too late!
But I totally missed your point. What it proves?
"(AP) The former plaintiff known as "Jane Roe" in the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court case that legalized abortion sought to have the case overturned in a motion filed Tuesday that asks the courts to consider new evidence that abortion hurts women.
Norma McCorvey, who joined the anti-abortion fight nearly 10 years ago and says she regrets her role in Roe v. Wade, said the Supreme Court's decision is no longer valid because scientific and anecdotal evidence that has come to light in the last 30 years has shown the negative effects of abortion."
-- so what? Men never change their opinions? What is so woman-specific here? I must have missed something...
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
I wonder what you mean by "logic" -- that women do not play by your rules? Again, if woman's behavior lacked any "logic", I guess women would have problem with understanding each other, and I do not have anything to support this conclusion with. So there must be two "logics" in this world...
----------
Of course you know I didn't mean that women 'literally' are never logical. (I hope ) Perhaps I failed to articulate the lighthearted theme.
Her basic idea is that men and women live in different cultures and the same thing might signify something quite different for them. We are constantly trying to make sense of other side's behavior in our own system of coordinates, and miss the fact that he/she uses another system. I totally agree with this. But hell, I'm gonna laugh at the silliness of viewing women through my system too. It's fun!!
-----
This is also the theme of the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus series. I tried reading one of those but didn't finish it because it seemed to 'classify' us and their are no hard fast rules, although some very interesting points. I just figured okay - we're different, expect differences, now get over it.
-----
I like the phrase 'we live in different cultures'. I also feel that way about gay men and women. It allows me not to give a hoot about the way they act, or what I 'should' expect from them. It also makes it easier to deal with women at work where one must treat the women equally but at the same time understand that we are not equal. (i.e. separate work from play) At least three companies I have had a women who wanted to "be just one of the guys" and each time I avoided her - very politely, of course - which wasn't always easy. In each company, the aforementioned woman ended up filing a sexual harrassment complaint against the other men. I keep a real low profile for this reason and in the end do not need to deal with any misunderstandings. (I ended up marrying a woman I worked with, so not TOO low-profile - but no one new about it until after we were engaged awhile so LOW enough.)
Again, why I never heard about this "problem" from women??? Didn't you read the part that said my wife and I laugh about it?? Its funny, not problematic. :roll: She laughs at me cause I have to deal with it. I don't take it personally, once I figure it out. I guess I kind of think it natural for someone to be not in a good mood if they don't feel good. But after witness pregnancy up close I realize that it does actually have a physiological side. The pregnancy books warn the husbands to 'bite their bottom lips' and wait a couple of weeks for the storm to pass.
---------------

Funny, I've heard that being too chivalrous when dealing with woman can be the flip-side of chauvinism. So in the end, a moderate fair approach may be more pratical and desirable for all parties. Cool...
And just when I thought I had it all figured out life comes along a tosses a real monkey-wrench in the works: i.e. the loss of our child. Man oh Man!! Every woman I've know that ever made a big deal out of being equal to a man flashed before my eyes - and I just very meekly said to each one: uhh... I'm not so sure anymore!!
When we claim to be 'equal', we use that word quite liberally. Wow how could I ever understand what the wife experienced - in giving birth or being handed death??? Sends a chill up my spine. It also points out to me how oblivious parents can be of their different 'types' of love for the same child in the same household. I mean if it is different in death, mustn't it be different in life too??? I think with our future children I will have a real 'sense' of the difference between Daddy's love and Mommy's love.
-----------
Oh yeah, I almost forgot menopause Popular women's wisdom says that men have only two explanations for woman's reactions: PMS or menopause Don't know anything about this, yet - But that's a GOOD line. I must share that with my wife and buddies. If its not one thing, its another... Btw, what's the excuse after menopause?
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
But I totally missed your point. What it proves?
Roe vs. Wade is now Rue vs. Wade -- She's allowed to change her mind. But I'll still poke fun at her, as much as I do for one of our presidents, sports stars, etc.
----------
Hmmm... come to think of it, I wonder how it feels to be part of something that caused so much controversy, so much division over the years only to find out you're not a believer anymore. You got to wonder how hard that was to live with... I wonder was she courageous and full of integrity or dopey and flippant?? Jury's out on that one...
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
I checked out that book, and it looks pretty interesting. It's written by a linguistics Professor. I guess I'll get it and add it to my waiting-to-read shelf.
I forgot to mention this book I read on topic of feminism:The New Victorians by Rene Denfeld (a woman)
Very interesting read. She questions many of the ideas of previous generation of women. Single guys: it'll give you some very thought provoking ammunition when you're trying to score in the U.S.
She goes over the ebbs and flows of the women's power during modern America. She talks about how after the Women got the right to vote they were infiltrated by radical religious and created prohibition, which caused a lot of unrest, leading to failure and ultimately cost them the power. I believe - don't quote me I can't remember exactly - that she compares this to women getting the right to birth control as another powerful time but then that movement got taken over by radicals that wanted abortion and that this cause so much unrest that it again diminished the power. I think she asks "Can Women ever be really successful or will their assets which yield success ultimately lead to struggles to difficult to overcome and therefore their downfall?" Please, for her sake, don't let my book report be a substitute for her ideas.
[ June 19, 2003: Message edited by: John Dunn ]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Aha, got it this time! This reminds me good time when I met other foreign students and we shared our observations on how ridiculous life is here. It wasn't in bad spirit, but could, I suppose, infuriate local people if they happened to hear us. (No, we were on lookout for all that looked remotely American). Particularly loud delight caused an observation that in college forms "English as a Second Language" checkbox was put under "disabilities". Think about it, if you know one language, you are just fine, but if you know two... Ok, perhaps 1,5 then you are disabled. This makes more sense from American side, I guess...
"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" - I tried this too. Couldn't finish for the same reason, it requires advanced level of stupidity, while mine is only intermediate
There is another interesting theory, that we all have psychological traits of the opposite gender at certain various degrees. So there are men who are an "etalon" of "men" and the same about women, and those who more or less combine traits of each gender. Rumoredly (I do not remember the source, but it was something quasi-scientific, not just yellow press), "etalon" types of men and women are more attractive for the opposite sex during dating, but a family of two "something between" individuals has better chances to actually survive a marriage. Maybe because cultural differences aren't that pronounced in this case.
I forgot to mention this book I read on topic of feminism: The New Victorians by Rene Denfeld (a woman)
John... Heck, it's weird to call you John , but I digress. I am curious, how do you make your reading list? It's so diverse.
If its not one thing, its another... Btw, what's the excuse after menopause?
Dotage.
But wait... What excuse? Excuse for men to blame their fault on women's physiology in order to avoid taking responsibility for the harm caused by their actions/non-actions? :roll:
[ June 20, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4340
    
    2

Map,
good observation. my lovelife depends on secrets so you are out of luck there


SCJP
Visit my download page
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4340
    
    2

like i told my friend tonight, all men blush occasionally....we arent all that different
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
subject: Secrets and Love