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Beginning Java Objects

Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
After seeing all the rave reviews and going through the snippets that Ms. Barker has given as explantaion to several queries, I am convinced that Beginning Java Objects would be a wonderful book. But 40 dollars translates into Rs.1700 approx in India, and boy too difficult to afford. That is 1/4 th my earnings.
Well normally all Wrox books are published by SPD in India. I am eagerly waiting for the Indian Edition.
SJ
James Baud
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 06, 2001
Posts: 60
I've scanned "Beginning Java Objects" at the local bookstore and I wish I had this book instead of another Java book I've invested in. But if it's a choice between a free treasure like "Thinking in Java" and something 1/4 of one's salary (I'm tempted to ask is that weekly, monthly ..?), well you get the picture
Speaking for myself, if I could honestly tell myself that I have mastered my TIJ, KAM and Fowler's UML Distilled books then, I don't see a need for any other Language reference.
------------------
~James Baud
Talk, does not cook rice - Chinese Proverb

[This message has been edited by James Baud (edited January 08, 2001).]


<B>~James Baud</B><P>He who asks, is a fool for five minutes;<BR>but, he who does not ask, remains a fool forever. (Chinese proverb)
Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
Originally posted by James Baud:
I've scanned "Beginning Java Objects" at the local bookstore and I wish I had this book instead of another Java book I've invested in. But if it's a choice between a free treasure like "Thinking in Java" and something 1/4 of one's salary (I'm tempted to ask is that weekly, monthly ..?), well you get the picture
Speaking for myself, if I could honestly tell myself that I have mastered my TIJ, KAM and Fowler's UML Distilled books then, I don't see a need for any other Language reference.

Aw heck James, I am just an aspiring billionaire waiting to be discovered. :-)
Yes I am going through TIJ at the moment. I have gone through KAM (Khalid A mughal ??) once. I am finding TIJ pretty good. Concise , precise with some really short and simple exercises.
I have heard about UML distilled, but have not got around to buying it. Guess I should finish off TIJ before attempting anything else. But the kind of short passages Jaquie had excerpted in the forum were very catchy.
James, I do not have any practical experience in programming in Java. Though I spend quite some time learning it. Tell me if I would be able to under stand UML distilled? I would greatly value yor opinion.
REgards,
SJ
James Baud
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 06, 2001
Posts: 60
Just like yourself, I'm just starting out in Java. In fact, gauging from your responses to queries in JavaRanch you are probably way ahead of me. I'm a mainframer trying to re-engineer myself. Unlike you, I'm not aspiring to be a billionaire, a millionaire perhaps but only thru the lottery, not too much work involved
I had the Distilled Book 1st ed, since 97 as a gift and at first glance I saw it was just way over my head. I did not take it up again until I took a OO Design w/ UML course in Oct 2K. That's only when I began to appreciate this little book.
W/ UML I'm able to appreciate more the diagrams in TIJ and KAM. I would also challenge myself by diagramming (w/ Rose2000) some complex concepts or questions in these books.
I've browsed over other books, UML in 21 days, and UML with Rational Rose2000 w/c I think are much more suitable for someone beginning OO and UML. My point is, UML can only be meaningful w/ OO concepts/design, that's because its just a convention for diagramming OO designs using a common interface.
------------------
~James Baud
Talk, does not cook rice. - Chinese Proverb
Steve Hayes
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 28, 2000
Posts: 4
Hi there James and SJ,
First James - I love the chinese proverb. So true (especially in the econsulting world.
Beginning Java Objects. I bought it a week ago. I'm currently on the famous 'Chapter 13'. Reason why I say that is that it's mentioned all the way up until this point as being the chapter that REALLY explains everything. JB is a v.good tech writer - she's humane and uses phrases I can understand - like an object reference is like a mobile phone number. You can send messages via the reference but it doesn't mean you have can have direct access to the message to the object. I'm continuing to read BJO and then will pick up TIJ. Slowly things are starting to make sense but I've not done any major coding yet. That's where JB's book comes in useful (I'm hoping) 'cos she's slowly building you up and leading you through a full implementation of a web & Java based 'Student Registration System'.
There's 17 chapters but I'm only half way through the book so the meat is yet to come. Will let you know, ~S
Kajol Shroff
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 160
Hi guys,
U all are great....ur conversation seems to be pretty interesting...its good to hear that u all are studying really hard...for JAVA.........hey guys help me out..also....and Sajan even i want to be a billionare.....and James not by lottery but by hard work....
U all are really cool guys........James ur proverb is really cool it means a lot........if one takes it in the right way
Kajol
Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
Hi Bill, Steve & Kajol,
I started on Java about 3 months back, with the intention of switching over to software. I am an Instrumentation Engr. by profession with some background in C. I went all the way upto EJB's, even downloaded the J2EE and wrote a couple of applications with 4 tiers, using HTML, servlets, EJB, JDBC and and MS Access Database. After that went to attend a couple of interviews, got really grilled and now I am back in the grind. While I was programming servlets and EJB, I hardly came across any of the complicated stuff. Collections, inner classes etc were conspicuous by their abscence.
But now that I have started to prepare for SCJP2, I am having a tough time. You got to know the concepts and syntax of Java and that is where KAM and TIJ helps out.
One thing repeatedly emphasized by my interviewer was OOPS concepts. He was talking about object modeling. And for the first time, I realized that, that is wat I want to do, instead of doing run off the mill web programming particularly since 80% of dotcoms have gone bust. If you can master Object modeling, you can adapt it to any language, perhaps even to C#.
That was the reason why Beginning Java Objets was such a turn on.
Thank you Bill/ Steve for your opinion. I'll have to wait until the book is published here.
And hey James you do'nt sound like a Java newbie. Give me a break. Of course talk doesn't cook rice. so I eat noodles instead.
Regards,
SJ

[This message has been edited by Sajan Joseph (edited January 10, 2001).]
Muhammad Ali
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 28
Hi,
There is a very nice discussion going on and I will like to avail this opportunity to introduce myself. I am a Pakistani computer science graudate - just completed my graduation today. I am very much intrested in "pure" computer science. But as any other fresh computer sicence graduate in a third world country, I also aspire to be a millionaire one day (no pun intended
I am learning Java, XML, Oracle and UML these days. Though I am strong in algorithms and web development, I am not experienced in the mentioned technologies and I need to master them. Any links / books regarding them (esp. UML) will help me a lot.
Thanks for reading it. It just feels nice to share your feelings...
Muhammad Ali Shah.
Kajol Shroff
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 160
Hi Sajan,
Your way of learning seems to be very right and long term... I really appreciate that....can u elabotate more on Object modelling what exactly does it mean....I am woking in dot com and am aware of the poor sucess rate of the dotcoms...
Hey and u did mention about me in ur reply....anyways...
Keep it up
Kajol
Pho Tek
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 05, 2000
Posts: 761

Sorry for my ignorance, but what does KAM stand for ?
Thanks
Pho


Regards,

Pho
James Baud
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 06, 2001
Posts: 60
Pho - KAM stands for Khalid A. Mughal - author (together w/ Rolf W. Rasmussen) of another JAVA 2 Cert. Bible. I saw the acronym in some other posts and poor Rolf he's left out of it.
Kajol, Steve - Glad you liked the proverb, keep on reading/coding!
SJ - Don't know why you don't think of me as a Java newbie, but you're entitled to your own opinion. Guess its about time I spend more with my wife than with KAM and Javaranch
I saw your post on inner classes and I'm smiling to myself because I'm saving it for my last study. It's probably just me, but I kept knocking my head trying to digest KAM's inner classes.
Glad you mentioned your stint w/ J2EE because that's about the direction I'm looking at right after SCJP. Isn't this important for SCJD? I'm also looking at getting a handle on Design Patterns, too.
In addition to my comments on BJO, there.. we now have an acronym for JB's book, Beginning Java Objects... Here's my book wish list:
1) Fund. of Object-Oriented Design in UML - Meilir Page-Jones. Hopefully this is something to build up on top of my Java Reference books, something to supplement my UML Distilled.
2) Core Servlets and Java Server Pages JSP - Marty Hall. Good reviews, relatively inexpensive book
3) A Good Design Patterns book w/c hasn't met my specs just yet (JAVA, UML and GOF Patterns-in-one). The book that comes closest is Patterns in Java 1 - Mark Grand. See review
Unfortunately, very scary reviews.
Applying UML and Patterns - Craig Larman See review
Very Good review. Not readily available in bookstore. From what I read, Larman's patterns (GRASP) are different from GOF's
Design Patterns by Gang of Four - GOF, Gamma et al See review
The mother of all patterns book. A must have, according to many. Examples are in C++ and has multiple inheritance. Probably not for OO newbies.
------------------
~James Baud
Talk, does not cook rice. - Chinese Proverb
[This message has been edited by James Baud (edited January 11, 2001).]
Pho Tek
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 05, 2000
Posts: 761

Hey, with regards to the "Core Servlets and JSP book";
I have written a short review of another JSP book.
You can read it at:
http://raverun.com/book/review-WDJSP.htm
Cheers,
Pho
Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
Hi everyone,
I was going through James's mail. Hey James I guess you are a real Object hogger. I need to learn a lot from you. Speaking of Patterns, I recently downloaded Thinking In Patterns from www.bruceeckel.com. Thought I will have a go at it before buying any books on Patterns. I have heard the Patterns book by the Gang of Four mentioned in a number of places. As you said, James, it is the mother of all Pattern books, so it seems at least.
Coming to J2EE, I have got Jason Hunter's Java Servlet Programming. It is a good book, but covers only servlet API 2.0.
As for EJB, I have gone through Enterprise Java Beans from Richard Monson-Haefel. Gosh, it was real hard to plough through the first two chapters. I need to sharpen my teeth before I attempt it again. Both books are published by OReilly and going by indian prices they are very much affordable. But then we have special editions for the subcontinent. And there is a Java conference coming up, here in bombay to be organized by Wrox. Wonder who will sponsor me...
And man, I have not understood inner classes- not the syntax/ semnatics part. But the where to apply part. Does anyone have any suggestions?
What about RMI. Is there a RMI wizard around. I am really fascinated by RMI.
Guess what I gave the brainbench Java 2 exam.. And passed with less than flying colors. The brainbench exam covers right from basics to CORBA/ Servlets/ JSP/ JFC/ and RMI. I was stumped most of the time. Guess I'll take it again after running some of the exam simulators before hand.
SJ
[This message has been edited by Sajan Joseph (edited January 11, 2001).]
Peter Tran
Bartender

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 783
Sajan,
If you want to learn inner classes, write a lot more GUI applications using Swing. Understanding inner classes and how they're used in Swing development is almost a requirement. I say almost because you can get away without using inner classes, but your code probably won't be as elegant and as easy to read.
Good luck,
-Peter
Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
Originally posted by Peter Tran:
Sajan,
If you want to learn inner classes, write a lot more GUI applications using Swing. Understanding inner classes and how they're used in Swing development is almost a requirement. I say almost because you can get away without using inner classes, but your code probably won't be as elegant and as easy to read.
Good luck,
-Peter


Thanks Peter,
I have not gone through the JFC Swing part yet. I was advised that Swing is not used in Web based applications and as such does not figure in dot com interviews. Since getting a job was top priority, I glossed it over. I thought I will finish off the basics before coming to that. But now that you have pointed this out I should have a go at it.
Regards,
SJ

[This message has been edited by Sajan Joseph (edited January 11, 2001).]
Peter Tran
Bartender

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 783
Sajan,
Check out this recommended reading link.
This list is recommend by Bill Venners. He's an acknowledged guru on OOA/OOD and teaches an JAVA/OOD course with Bruce Eckel author of TIJ.
-Peter
[This message has been edited by Peter Tran (edited January 11, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Peter Tran (edited January 11, 2001).]
Jon Noreika
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 06, 2000
Posts: 5
Bruce Eckel has preliminary version of a book called Thinking in Patterns with Java which is free online at:
http://www.bruceeckel.com/TIPatterns/index.html
Joseph Russell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 290
I see a lot of people going through TIJ so I thought I'd post a link to our email group that's going through his book:
JavaThink@egroups.com
I'm also going to post a link on our email group to come and check out JavaRanch this is a pretty good site.
Asta,
Joe
Sajan Joseph
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 40
Hi Everyone,
Peter, I have followed the link and bookmarked it. I shall be coming back to it when I am ready to sink my teeth into OOP concepts and modeling. Thank you very much.
I shall be off Java ranch for a while. I have taken brain bench exams and I must say the results were not dazzling. In Java 1, I scored only 3.77/ 5 and Java2 only 3/5. So it is time to sit down and slog it out for a while. I plan to finish off TIJ and write code and test all of them in the next 15 days.
Networking and Java Beans have to be brushed up and I/O Streams have to be thoroughly overhauled.
I have found that net is a mind boggling resource for anything related to Java. I have downloaded and recorded into CD's about 800MB of Java related material.
The best place to look for tutorials is the java developer connection, just to get a feel of things.
So long every one. Thank you for all the help.
Best wishes,
SJ
 
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